Canadian Politics

[JCon]

  On 2022-02-03 at 5:42 PM, Noeller said:

I'm not sure about that...I think that's giving him too much credit. I honestly don't think he's bright enough to be that powerful (and that's coming from someone who's generally a Trudeau fan). I think JPT is a face, and there's a lot of puppeteers behind the scenes pulling strings. But I would be really interested to know who is currently in the LPC that would be a winner in the next election...

Expand  

Don't underestimate him. I know the right likes to portray him as not too bright but he knows politics and power. The CPCs gave him a roadmap. He does have some people around him to fill in the gaps but he executes the plan. 

[Wideleft]

  On 2022-02-03 at 5:44 PM, JCon said:

It took him two months to call a caucus meeting after the election. The MPs are silenced right now. Everything runs through the PMO. It's the Harper playbook. 

Expand  

Not a good comparison.  Under Harper, MP's could not even do interviews.  You don't see that happening now.

Edited February 3, 2022 by Wideleft

[WildPath]

  On 2022-02-03 at 5:41 PM, GCn20 said:

Probably around the time inflation hit 6% and house prices doubled in a 5 year span. Just my guess.

Expand  

So you're saying 1991? That is the last time we had inflation at 6%. Actually, that was even the last time our inflation numbers hit 5%, so even if you're exaggerating... 

Again - Canada's inflation numbers are NOT 6%.

[GCn20]

  On 2022-02-03 at 5:47 PM, Wideleft said:

Genuis was pissed that it was voted for in his absence (he was in Latvia) and started stirring the pot upon his return.  I would guess a lot of that 92% held their noses when they supported the bill.  The rest like Ted Falk just hate transgenders.

Expand  

I am sure there was a small faction of the CPC that did indeed hate it. However, the numbers serve to show where the overwhelming majority of members sit on the issue.

[rebusrankin]

I have voted Conservative generally but feel left behind/like I can't support the current party.

Generally the Conservatives will poll 30% nationally. That seems like the base. The issue is for them to win an election, they need 40%. Currently I don't see how they get that extra 10%. The support of Conversion Therapy, the refusal to acknowledge that climate change is real (see last party conference where the membership rejected a motion stating that the party acknowledged it was real), the support of the convoy all seem to be large barriers to them gaining wider support. Right now, I don't see a path to them winning big in Ontario which they need to do.

[JCon]

  On 2022-02-03 at 5:49 PM, WildPath said:

So you're saying 1991? That is the last time we had inflation at 6%. Actually, that was even the last time our inflation numbers hit 5%, so even if you're exaggerating... 

Again - Canada's inflation numbers are NOT 6%.

Expand  

It's also temporary. Once production goes up and supply chains are fixed, it goes away. In fact, take out oil and gas and we're just average. 

I guess conservatives want lower oil and gas prices now too?

[GCn20]

  On 2022-02-03 at 5:49 PM, WildPath said:

So you're saying 1991? That is the last time we had inflation at 6%. Actually, that was even the last time our inflation numbers hit 5%, so even if you're exaggerating... 

Again - Canada's inflation numbers are NOT 6%.

Expand  

Ok...4.8%....oh geez what a feel good story. Everyone have no fear it's only creeping onto 5%. 

[JCon]

  On 2022-02-03 at 5:50 PM, rebusrankin said:

I have voted Conservative generally but feel left behind/like I can't support the current party.

Generally the Conservatives will poll 30% nationally. That seems like the base. The issue is for them to win an election, they need 40%. Currently I don't see how they get that extra 10%. The support of Conversion Therapy, the refusal to acknowledge that climate change is real (see last party conference where the membership rejected a motion stating that the party acknowledged it was real), the support of the convoy all seem to be large barriers to them gaining wider support. Right now, I don't see a path to them winning big in Ontario which they need to do.

Expand  

They need Quebec too. Not necessarily to vote Conservative but to NOT vote Liberal. 

  On 2022-02-03 at 5:51 PM, GCn20 said:

Ok...4.8%....oh geez what a feel good story. Everyone have no fear it's only creeping onto 5%. 

Expand  

Now you're moving the goalposts. 

Just press a little on the argument and everything falls apart. 

[GCn20]

  On 2022-02-03 at 5:50 PM, rebusrankin said:

I have voted Conservative generally but feel left behind/like I can't support the current party.

Generally the Conservatives will poll 30% nationally. That seems like the base. The issue is for them to win an election, they need 40%. Currently I don't see how they get that extra 10%. The support of Conversion Therapy, the refusal to acknowledge that climate change is real (see last party conference where the membership rejected a motion stating that the party acknowledged it was real), the support of the convoy all seem to be large barriers to them gaining wider support. Right now, I don't see a path to them winning big in Ontario which they need to do.

Expand  

The path will be wide open once the division of the pandemic is over. Economy will be the path to victory. It's not an easy path and they will have to control the election narrative, something they did early in the 2021 campaign and then faltered at in the last 10 days.

[Wideleft]

  On 2022-02-03 at 5:49 PM, GCn20 said:

I am sure there was a small faction of the CPC that did indeed hate it. However, the numbers serve to show where the overwhelming majority of members sit on the issue.

Expand  

It's an absolute no-brainer.  Falk, Genuis, Cooper etc. should all be given the boot by the party and prevented from running again.

[WildPath]

  On 2022-02-03 at 5:51 PM, GCn20 said:

Ok...4.8%....oh geez what a feel good story. Everyone have no fear it's only creeping onto 5%. 

Expand  

Again, it is really weird to put that on Trudeau when the US is at 7%! And we are lower than most other countries in the Europe as well. You are pretty much making the case for why Trudeau is doing a great job handling the economy.

Edited February 3, 2022 by WildPath

[GCn20]

  On 2022-02-03 at 5:52 PM, JCon said:

They need Quebec too. Not necessarily to vote Conservative but to NOT vote Liberal. 

Now you're moving the goalposts. 

Just press a little on the argument and everything falls apart. 

Expand  

Hey if 4.8% inflation doesn't concern you...all the power to you. I can tell you that this is a big number for a lot of people.

  On 2022-02-03 at 5:54 PM, Wideleft said:

It's an absolute no-brainer.  Falk, Genuis, Cooper etc. should all be given the boot by the party and prevented from running again.

Expand  

Agreed.

[JCon]

  On 2022-02-03 at 5:53 PM, GCn20 said:

The path will be wide open once the division of the pandemic is over. Economy will be the path to victory. It's not an easy path and they will have to control the election narrative, something they did early in the 2021 campaign and then faltered at in the last 10 days.

Expand  

The party was fighting their own agenda from the first day. It started with a few dissatisfied candidates and grew over the entire election. O'Toole was saying one thing one day and then flipping back the next. They need one platform that the party will follow. That was on O'Toole for not getting his candidates behind him.  

[GCn20]

  On 2022-02-03 at 5:54 PM, WildPath said:

Again, it is really weird to put that on Trudeau when the US is at 7%! And we are lower than most other countries in the world as well.

Expand  

It might not be fair to pin it on Trudeau but it is happening on his watch. Lots of leaders get the blame/credit for things that are beyond their control.

  On 2022-02-03 at 5:55 PM, JCon said:

The party was fighting their own agenda from the first day. It started with a few dissatisfied candidates and grew over the entire election. O'Toole was saying one thing one day and then flipping back the next. They need one platform that the party will follow. That was on O'Toole for not getting his candidates behind him.  

Expand  

Yep. As a party member I had no idea what the hell O'Toole stood for and that was a massive impediment to the party.

  On 2022-02-03 at 5:55 PM, JCon said:

The party was fighting their own agenda from the first day. It started with a few dissatisfied candidates and grew over the entire election. O'Toole was saying one thing one day and then flipping back the next. They need one platform that the party will follow. That was on O'Toole for not getting his candidates behind him.  

Expand  

The beginning of the campaign he did exactly as he should have. He made housing the issue and hammered the Liberal economic record. Then he began the flip flopping.

[JCon]

  On 2022-02-03 at 5:54 PM, GCn20 said:

Hey if 4.8% inflation doesn't concern you...all the power to you. I can tell you that this is a big number for a lot of people.

Expand  

It's such a confusing stance. It's incoherent that "conservatives" want the gov't to make China produce more stuff and for oil and gas prices to come down. 

[Tracker]

  On 2022-02-03 at 5:55 PM, JCon said:

The party was fighting their own agenda from the first day. It started with a few dissatisfied candidates and grew over the entire election. O'Toole was saying one thing one day and then flipping back the next. They need one platform that the party will follow. That was on O'Toole for not getting his candidates behind him.  

Expand  

O'Toole had zero chance to rein in the nutbars in the party. They resented that he did not throw himself into the extreme anti-science, gun-promoting agenda "Christian" agenda right off the hop, and the knives were sharpened. The only reason the CPC got close to a majority in the early part of the election was that O'Toole was perceived by voters as pragmatic and progressive, and that doomed him within the party.

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

  On 2022-02-03 at 5:25 PM, GCn20 said:

...we are not and never have been a party that requires all MPs and all members to group think and conform in all ideologies. 

Expand  

Former guy says hi. When he was running the cpc... that was the epitome of party group think.

 

 

[johnzo]

  On 2022-02-03 at 4:40 PM, GCn20 said:

 The PPC doesn't even matter no matter how loudly you bang that drum. They are a party that swung some votes in a global pandemic. When actual policy and not protest returns post pandemic they will fade away into the ether and their votes will return to the CPC.

Expand  

I hope that you are right, but I suspect that you are wrong.

The natural tensions between east/west/urban/rural/government/resource in Canada are not going to disappear and there are bad actors who are very good at exploiting those tensions (not to mention manufacturing new ones) to radicalize people.  The pandemic might have helped that along, but if there were no covid, there would be something else hyped as the end of civilization.

[JCon]

There you go. The new CPC. 

 

[GCn20]

  On 2022-02-03 at 6:59 PM, johnzo said:

I hope that you are right, but I suspect that you are wrong.

The natural tensions between east/west/urban/rural/government/resource in Canada are not going to disappear and there are bad actors who are very good at exploiting those tensions (not to mention manufacturing new ones) to radicalize people.  The pandemic might have helped that along, but if there were no covid, there would be something else hyped as the end of civilization.

Expand  

Meh...2019 election he had support...and then he talked and his support evaporated because Maxime is an idiot when he has to discuss policies. If there is no covid or anti vaxx movement the guy doesn't get 1% of the vote.

[Wideleft]

  On 2022-02-03 at 7:37 PM, JCon said:

There you go. The new CPC. 

 

Expand  

Projection is the new GoTo strategy of the Right.

[blue_gold_84]

  On 2022-02-03 at 7:37 PM, JCon said:

There you go. The new CPC. 

 

Expand  

She is a disgrace to humanity. Vile, regressive, disgusting trash.

[Tracker]

  On 2022-02-03 at 7:37 PM, JCon said:

There you go. The new CPC. 

 

Expand  

Yes, Bergen was,

  On 2022-02-03 at 7:52 PM, Tracker said:

Yes, Bergen was,  Aaand she's off and running.

Expand  

 

[TrueBlue4ever]

  On 2022-02-03 at 5:25 PM, GCn20 said:

However, the overwhelming majority of CPC members are neither right wing zealots or wing nuts and that is what you guys on the left have a real hard time comprehending. 

Expand  

They seem to vote a surprising number of those folks into power, though. New interim leader being just another example. 

  On 2022-02-03 at 7:37 PM, JCon said:

There you go. The new CPC. 

 

Expand  

One interesting early (conspiracy?) theory on Twitter - Bergen is going to go even more hard right, and when a new leader is elected they will scale back to where they are now to correct the trajectory and look “moderate” by comparison to woo voters. 

[johnzo]

  On 2022-02-03 at 7:37 PM, JCon said:

There you go. The new CPC. 

 

Expand  

hEriTaGe nOt hAtE