Canadian Politics

[JCon]

Just now, The Unknown Poster said:

Oh I see what you did there.  Okay, if you dont want to have a mature discussion, dont take part.  If Harper's deficits really bother you so much, you must have been irate at the opposition for wanting even larger ones.  Thank goodness Harper held them in check ;-)

By the way, the "someone else's fault" thing is usually a lefty mantra.

I don't have problems with Harper's deficits. At the time, I felt that they were necessary. I don't think deficit spending today is necessary.

I have a problem with the idea that conservative government's are anti-deficit, when the evidence shows they are not. I think conservatives (not conservative gov'ts) are anti-deficit. 

 

My beefs with Harper were primarily how he operated and his decision around taxes. 

I never felt boutique tax credits were the way to go and didn't understand the need to cut the progressive consumption tax (GST). I would have preferred to see income tax lowered and the basic personal exemption raised.

[Atomic]

Pretty clear what's going on when you have multiple people in the thread who can criticize and laud both major parties and one who will defend the Liberals to the death no matter what they do.

[The Unknown Poster]

34 minutes ago, JCon said:

I don't have problems with Harper's deficits. At the time, I felt that they were necessary. I don't think deficit spending today is necessary.

I have a problem with the idea that conservative government's are anti-deficit, when the evidence shows they are not. I think conservatives (not conservative gov'ts) are anti-deficit. 

 

My beefs with Harper were primarily how he operated and his decision around taxes. 

I never felt boutique tax credits were the way to go and didn't understand the need to cut the progressive consumption tax (GST). I would have preferred to see income tax lowered and the basic personal exemption raised.

That's a reasonable post.  So to summarize, you cannot be critical of Harper's deficits.  In fact, you agree with them (is that because the Liberals wanted them?)

They cut the GST because its unpopular and they campaigned on it.  They won based on that promise (among others).  You can disagree with the idea of a GST cut but you can't be critical of Harper for following through on his promise.  I'd much prefer zero income tax and higher consumptions taxes/sin taxes etc.  But the Liberals arent doing that either.  Well, they are taxing us, a silly useless tax that wont stop global warning but its certainly well framed in that you either support the carbon tax or you want the earth to explode in a fiery ball of man-made destruction.  No middle ground.

Seems the Liberals (or NDP at other levels) inherit good economic situations, spend their way into oblivion, are rightly kicked to the curb and then the big bad conservatives have to clean up the mess.  After a few years of tough decisions, people forget and get all starry-eyed at the prospect of gold boats for everyone and vote for the large promise/small plan Liberals/NDP.  Wash, rinse, repeat.  

[sweep the leg]

20 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Seems the Liberals (or NDP at other levels) inherit good economic situations, spend their way into oblivion, are rightly kicked to the curb and then the big bad conservatives have to clean up the mess.  After a few years of tough decisions, people forget and get all starry-eyed at the prospect of gold boats for everyone and vote for the large promise/small plan Liberals/NDP.  Wash, rinse, repeat.  

Good grief man. You only have to go back to the last Liberal gov't to see how this is wrong.

[JCon]

1 minute ago, The Unknown Poster said:

That's a reasonable post.  So to summarize, you cannot be critical of Harper's deficits.  In fact, you agree with them (is that because the Liberals wanted them?)

They cut the GST because its unpopular and they campaigned on it.  They won based on that promise (among others).  You can disagree with the idea of a GST cut but you can't be critical of Harper for following through on his promise.  I'd much prefer zero income tax and higher consumptions taxes/sin taxes etc.  But the Liberals arent doing that either.  Well, they are taxing us, a silly useless tax that wont stop global warning but its certainly well framed in that you either support the carbon tax or you want the earth to explode in a fiery ball of man-made destruction.  No middle ground.

Seems the Liberals (or NDP at other levels) inherit good economic situations, spend their way into oblivion, are rightly kicked to the curb and then the big bad conservatives have to clean up the mess.  After a few years of tough decisions, people forget and get all starry-eyed at the prospect of gold boats for everyone and vote for the large promise/small plan Liberals/NDP.  Wash, rinse, repeat.  

I am not critical of Harper's deficit spending because I think, during the certain times, it helps the economy. I am very critical of the need to deficit spend right now. 

I was and remain critical of them cutting the GST. I get that they ran on it but they shouldn't have. They should have said, we some of us believe, that consumption taxes are better than income taxes, and we'll cut income taxes enough to save you on your consumption tax. 

The idea of belonging to any party kind of makes me ill. They change so much and are too big to represent anyone. 

I'm not  a Liberal, as I find that they go way off spending on whatever they feel like, following crazy ideas that plays well to the base (long gun registry). Sometimes, they have good ideas but mostly they just want spend their through their mandate. 

I'm not an lefty (NDP, Liberal, Green, communist) because they're prepared to do and spend whatever they can in order put everyone into their box. Heal everyone, fix everything with money. Social engineering. It doesn't work and makes for a crappy world. 

I'm not a Conservative, as I don't like their social policies. I don't want the gov't being the gatekeeper to issues like gay marriage and marijuana legalization.

I want a small gov't, that spends on healthcare, infrastructure  and education. Balance the books, make it as easy as possible to create wealthy citizens and prepare the next gen for the future. 

I'm usually disappointed with most gov'ts. 

[The Unknown Poster]

5 minutes ago, sweep the leg said:

Good grief man. You only have to go back to the last Liberal gov't to see how this is wrong.

Exceptions proof the rule ;-)

[17to85]

1 hour ago, sweep the leg said:

Mulroney added over $300B to the national debt. Chretien and Martin did a  good job cleaning up his mess and have a better fiscal record than anybody in recent history.

 

Yeah but they did a lot of their work with the finances on the backs of the GST and NAFTA which were Mulroneys babies. See here is the thing, a lot of times you don't see the true impacts of a government until they are actually out of office. The other thing that Chretien and Martin did to help them balance the books was download more costs onto the provinces. 

It's not a simple black and white issue ever with the budget. There are so many moving pieces and so many long term things that it is hard to simply look at one snap shot in time and say X did this. 

[kelownabomberfan]

2 hours ago, sweep the leg said:

Mulroney added over $300B to the national debt. Chretien and Martin did a  good job cleaning up his mess and have a better fiscal record than anybody in recent history.

 

The only time I have ever voted Liberal was when Paul Martin was leader.  He really saved Canada in the 1990's after the Trudeau and Mulroney years of spend spend spend.

[JCon]

3 minutes ago, kelownabomberfan said:

The only time I have ever voted Liberal was when Paul Martin was leader.  He really saved Canada in the 1990's after the Trudeau and Mulroney years of spend spend spend.

It's amazing how gov't can be so good at one thing, yet so horrible at others. It's like they can never get it just right and find a way to bring themselves down. 

[Atomic]

And some, like the current government, literally get every single thing wrong.  They have not made one positive move since taking office.

[Rich]

Just came across this article and found it pertinent to the discussion about how pension liabilities hurt the conservatives deficits and with the increase in interest rates will help Ottawa balance the budget (or spend more money).

http://business.financialpost.com/news/economy/rising-interest-rates-could-allow-liberals-to-post-smaller-deficits-in-2019-pbo

[kelownabomberfan]

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau's disapproval rating among Canadians has jumped above the 50 per cent mark for the first time since the 2015 election, according to a new poll.

 

The Angus Reid Institute's latest survey, released Monday, found the political flak from Trudeau's recent trip to India and increasing worry over government spending has widened the gap in approval ratings between the Liberals and Andrew Scheer's Conservative Party. The firm now says Tories have a shot at winning a majority government.

If an election was held tomorrow, the poll said, 40 per cent of respondents who were decided or leaning voters would back the Tories while 30 per cent would opt for the Liberals. Nineteen per cent said they would vote for Jagmeet Singh's NDP.

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The poll also found another possible bad omen for the federal Liberals. Fifty-one per cent of respondents — an all-time high — say it's time for a change in government.

Though that view is strongest among previous Conservative voters, ARI noted, 23 per cent of respondents who voted for the Liberals in 2015 also agreed with that statement.

That shift in the Liberal's base seems to be a key factor in the slip in popularity for Trudeau and the party, the polling firm said. While a majority of the Grit base still approves of the PM, 31 per cent of respondents who voted for the Liberals in 2015 now say they disapprove of the party's leader.

The polling firm's results suggest the Liberal Party's voter retention is weaker than the Tories'. Fifty-eight per cent of its past supporters say they would vote for the Grits again, according to the poll, compared to 86 per cent of the Conservative Party's past voters. Fifty-three per cent of respondents who voted for the NDP in 2015 would do the same in the next election.

Scheer seen as better leader on economy

And as Trudeau's approval ratings take a dip, (some) things are coming up Scheer.

The Conservative leader, who was elected to his party's helm last May, is seen as a stronger leader on issues such as crime, relations with the provinces, health care and the economy, the latter being the most important issue in Canada today to 26 per cent of respondents.

The government's latest budget, which predicted a deficit of $18.1 billion and offered no date for any return to balance, also contributed to the Liberals' woes. Twenty-nine per cent of ARI's respondents said government spending and deficits were the most pressing issues in Canada. The firm noted that concerns about deficits have increased throughout the government's term.

[kelownabomberfan]

2 hours ago, Atomic said:

And some, like the current government, literally get every single thing wrong.  They have not made one positive move since taking office.

they gave us a gender-balanced cabinet.  A lot of people tell me this is a good thing, for some reason.

[Atomic]

13 minutes ago, kelownabomberfan said:

they gave us a gender-balanced cabinet.  A lot of people tell me this is a good thing, for some reason.

I suppose they are also combating Islamophobia, which as we all know is destroying society as we know it, and is definitely the most pressing issue facing Canadians.

[17to85]

4 hours ago, JCon said:

I was and remain critical of them cutting the GST. I get that they ran on it but they shouldn't have. They should have said, we some of us believe, that consumption taxes are better than income taxes, and we'll cut income taxes enough to save you on your consumption tax. 

That one was pure politics and it goes all the way back to Chretiens campaigning on "we will remove the GST" it was purely a very prominent way for them to play the "see unlike the Liberals we keep our campaign promises, you can trust us when we tell you something" 

It wasn't done with any intent of actually being good for the budget and I am sure they knew that when they did it, they simply wanted to give a big old middle finger to the Liberal party. 

[kelownabomberfan]

39 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

That one was pure politics and it goes all the way back to Chretiens campaigning on "we will remove the GST" it was purely a very prominent way for them to play the "see unlike the Liberals we keep our campaign promises, you can trust us when we tell you something" 

It wasn't done with any intent of actually being good for the budget and I am sure they knew that when they did it, they simply wanted to give a big old middle finger to the Liberal party. 

that two percent cut hacked $14 billion off of federal revenues.  That is almost 75% of the Liberal deficit this year (projected - probably only 50% when the real numbers come in).

[kelownabomberfan]

2 hours ago, Atomic said:

I suppose they are also combating Islamophobia, which as we all know is destroying society as we know it, and is definitely the most pressing issue facing Canadians.

Our sales guy just got back from India on the weekend.  He said whenever he told someone he was Canadian they started dancing the Bhangra and laughing.  People told him they've never seen such a clown show from a world leader before.  He was embarrassed to even tell anyone there he was Canadian.

[blue_gold_84]

15 hours ago, kelownabomberfan said:

Our sales guy just got back from India on the weekend.  He said whenever he told someone he was Canadian they started dancing the Bhangra and laughing.  People told him they've never seen such a clown show from a world leader before.  He was embarrassed to even tell anyone there he was Canadian.

Because of the prime minister...? That's stupid. Canada is still a damned great place, regardless of the clueless bozo occupying the PMO.

[pigseye]

4 hours ago, blue_gold_84 said:

Because of the prime minister...? That's stupid. Canada is still a damned great place, regardless of the clueless bozo occupying the PMO.

But it took clueless bozo's to elect him, reflects bad on everyone not just the PM. 

[blue_gold_84]

19 minutes ago, pigseye said:

But it took clueless bozo's to elect him, reflects bad on everyone not just the PM. 

Way to miss the point entirely.

[pigseye]

49 minutes ago, blue_gold_84 said:

Way to miss the point entirely.

Okay it takes a country of bozo's to elect one, better.

[iHeart]

well now I've heard everything, have other party leaders been arrested before?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/anti-pipeline-protest-elizabeth-may-kennedy-stewart-1.4587631

Edited March 23, 2018 by iHeart

[pigseye]

34 minutes ago, iHeart said:

well now I've heard everything, have other party leaders been arrested before?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/anti-pipeline-protest-elizabeth-may-kennedy-stewart-1.4587631

Just when you thought things couldn't get worse for JT

Quote

 

Stewart, who represents the federal riding of Burnaby–South, also entered a court-imposed protest-free zone around the property. He was arrested around 12:30 p.m. PT.

"This is down to Justin Trudeau's broken promises," he said as he walked with RCMP officers.

 

Even the Greenies hate him now, lol. 

[iHeart]

honestly is it too expensive to keep campaign promises

Edited March 23, 2018 by iHeart

[Mama Fresco]

Lower income taxes and high consumer taxes sound good to me.  

Agree, campaign promises are too expensive.  Maybe candidates have to be restricted to a certain number of promises and obliged to publish a budget showing the cost of those promises.