Canadian Politics

[Atomic]

14 minutes ago, kelownabomberfan said:

on behalf of the people of BC I apologize.  The government we have now in place did not win the election and is representing a minority of the electorate that is radical and can't do math.  BC is such a screwed up place.  If the Conservatives had had the brains to not run a candidate in the riding of Comox none of this would be happening right now.

I don't understand.  Can you explain what happened?

[kelownabomberfan]

39 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

The thing that gets me is that the politicians in BC have flat out admitted that winning their court cases aren't the goal. They are totally OK just pissing away tax payer money on doomed challenges AND harming the countries reputation for investment, and now wasting more tax payer money since the federal government has picked up the tab for the project. 

It's just stupid and really shows how out of touch parts of BC are with the real world. 

The BC government is controlled by the LEAP faction of the NDP, and of course, they need the Greens to stay in power so really the Greens are running the show.  And that's a scary place to be.

[17to85]

2 minutes ago, kelownabomberfan said:

The BC government is controlled by the LEAP faction of the NDP, and of course, they need the Greens to stay in power so really the Greens are running the show.  And that's a scary place to be.

spent a few days in the Vancouver area this spring and sure it's a real beautiful place geographically but man so many of the people there seem to be completely disconnected from reality. 

[kelownabomberfan]

16 minutes ago, Atomic said:

I don't understand.  Can you explain what happened?

The BC Liberals won a minority in the election.  They were one seat short of a majority.  The BC Liberals then formed a government, and lost a non-confidence vote to the NDP and Greens, who together formed the government with the approval of the lieutenant governor, via a taxpayer-funded "secretariat".  The NDP and Greens received a lot of protest votes, and no one fore-saw the awful potential future of these two bozo parties forming a government together, as it was probably too horrific for most people to imagine.  But now we are stuck with it.  Consequences of voting emotionally rather than logically.

So to my point - the BC Conservatives ran 4 candidates in the election.  Why no one knows.  All they did was split the vote on the right in 4 ridings.  One of these ridings was Comox, where the Liberals lost by 100 votes to a real lunatic NDP candidate.  The Conservative candidate got over 2,000 votes, most of which would have gone to the BC Liberals if they hadn't run a candidate.  The Liberals would have had a majority, and we would have a government that was intent on getting the pipeline built, without interference or taxpayer dollar wasting court challenges.  Elizabeth May would be in hoosgow right now where she belongs.

There were also rumblings that three traditional BC Liberal ridings went NDP this time because the NDP promised to block Uber from coming to BC.  Not sure how accurate that info is.

Edited May 30, 2018 by kelownabomberfan

[Atomic]

5 minutes ago, kelownabomberfan said:

The BC Liberals won a minority in the election.  They were one seat short of a majority.  The BC Liberals then formed a government, and lost a non-confidence vote to the NDP and Greens, who together formed the government with the approval of the lieutenant governor, via a taxpayer-funded "secretariat".  The NDP and Greens received a lot of protest votes, and no one fore-saw the awful potential future of these two bozo parties forming a government together, as it was probably too horrific for most people to imagine.  But now we are stuck with it.  Consequences of voting emotionally rather than logically.

So to my point - the BC Conservatives ran 4 candidates in the election.  Why no one knows.  All they did was split the vote on the right in 4 ridings.  One of these ridings was Comox, where the Liberals lost by 100 votes to a real lunatic NDP candidate.  The Conservative candidate got over 2,000 votes, most of which would have gone to the BC Liberals if they hadn't run a candidate.  The Liberals would have had a majority, and we would have a government that was intent on getting the pipeline built, without interference or taxpayer dollar wasting court challenges.  Elizabeth May would be in hoosgow right now where she belongs.

There were also rumblings that three traditional BC Liberal ridings went NDP this time because the NDP promised to block Uber from coming to BC.  Not sure how accurate that info is.

Only in BC can the Liberals and Conservatives "split the vote on the right."  Sounds like an absolute disaster.  No wonder there is so much BS coming out of BC recently.

[kelownabomberfan]

1 minute ago, Atomic said:

Only in BC can the Liberals and Conservatives "split the vote on the right."  Sounds like an absolute disaster.  No wonder there is so much BS coming out of BC recently.

yeah it's been a nightmare out here.  The NDP are falling down all over the place and making us the laughingstock of Canada.  I would agree that it was time for a change in provincial government as the BC Liberals were becoming really stagnant.  But this is like blowing your head off with a shot-gun to cure a tooth-ache.

[kelownabomberfan]

11 minutes ago, Atomic said:

Only in BC can the Liberals and Conservatives "split the vote on the right."  Sounds like an absolute disaster.  No wonder there is so much BS coming out of BC recently.

Yes, part of the problem is that the BC Liberals moved pretty far right, and then back to the center, and so have allowed the Conservatives back into the game.  Just enough to sewer the BC Liberals unfortunately.  I don't get how the far right here doesn't get it - if you split the vote on the right we just end up with the NDP in power, and then you get this mess.  

[Mark F]

 

Quote

 

WCS is transported from Alberta to refineries with capacity to process heavy oil from the oil sands. The Petroleum Administration for Defense Districts (Padd II), in the US Midwest, have experience running the WCS blend.[5][52][98] Most of WCS goes to refineries in the Midwestern United States where refineries "are configured to process a large percentage of heavy, high-sulfur crude and to produce large quantities of transportation fuels, and low amounts of heavy fuel oil."[98] 

While the US refiners "invested in more complex refinery configurations with higher processing capability" that use "cheaper feedstocks" like WCS and Maya, Canada did not.

While Canadian refining capacity has increased through scale and efficiency, there are only 19 refineries in Canada compared to 148 in the United States.

 

If Canada can cough up the money to build a pipeline, Canada can build a refinery.

Quote

 

CALGARY – For years, Ian MacGregor has been widely criticized for pushing the Alberta government to support more refineries within the province and that criticism only escalated as costs for his North West Refinery project soared to $9.5 billion over time.

But amid the scorn from politicians and even within the oilpatch, against all odds the refinery in Sturgeon County near Edmonton produced its first diesel from bitumen this month — the first refinery to be built in Canada in more than 30 years.

 

I call bs on the idea that Canadians, Albertans,  can't run a refinery and make money doing it.

It's similar to chopping down trees, and shipping them to the states, so that Americans can have the jobs making our logs into useable products.

My guess is that the oil companies in the US want to control the refining capacity in their own country. We don't have to go along with that. 

Edited May 30, 2018 by Mark F

[kelownabomberfan]

1 minute ago, Mark F said:

 

If Canada can cough up the money to build a pipeline, Canada can build a refinery.

I call bs on the idea that Canadians, Albertans,  can't run a refinery and make money doing it.

It's similar to chopping down trees, and shipping them to the states, so that Americans can have the jobs making our logs into useable products.

I hear your point on this.  Where would you build it?  And would you have Elizabeth May and David Suzuki chaining themselves to fences to block workers from building it?  Just curious.  It's easy to say "just build it" but you wind up dealing with the same band of lunatics no matter what you do.

Me personally, if we're really interested in "green power", should be looking seriously at nuclear technology.  We have so much uranium, let's use it rather than just handing it to the Chinese.

Edited May 30, 2018 by kelownabomberfan

[Mark F]

3 minutes ago, kelownabomberfan said:

And would you have Elizabeth May

Elizabeth May proposed doing exactly this. A few months ago.

Of course, build it in Alberta, they have the business people, the trades, let them make the money.

It's really stupid that this is never even discussed.

 

Edited May 30, 2018 by Mark F

[Mark F]

Elizabeth May April 18 2018.

Quote

 

 Big Oil has decreed that Canada provide raw resources for export, not value added.

But what if we took a page from Peter Lougheed’s book? His first rule for resource development was “think like an owner.” Instead of bailing out an American company, let’s put federal support behind building upgraders and refineries in Alberta.

 

Again, why can't we have the refinery jobs in Canada? 

stupid thinking.

Edited May 30, 2018 by Mark F

[SpeedFlex27]

32 minutes ago, Mark F said:

Elizabeth May proposed doing exactly this. A few months ago.

Of course, build it in Alberta, they have the business people, the trades, let them make the money.

It's really stupid that this is never even discussed.

 

It would take a decade to build a single refinery with the regulatory process. Then there's the interveners & politicians like Horgan who would against it. The eco environmental terrorists who would wreak havoc all backed by millions of American dollars in US organizations like Tides Canada. The same thing that happened with KMX would happen with a refinery. So, Horgan can say it's not the pipeline he objects to but the heavy oil bitumen. However, he's lying. He'd be against a refinery in the Lower Mainland. He would be against anything related to oil in BC. 

Edited May 30, 2018 by SpeedFlex27

[SpeedFlex27]

37 minutes ago, kelownabomberfan said:

I hear your point on this.  Where would you build it?  And would you have Elizabeth May and David Suzuki chaining themselves to fences to block workers from building it?  Just curious.  It's easy to say "just build it" but you wind up dealing with the same band of lunatics no matter what you do.

Me personally, if we're really interested in "green power", should be looking seriously at nuclear technology.  We have so much uranium, let's use it rather than just handing it to the Chinese.

Nuclear energy would really bring out the nutbars. Some of these eco-terrorists would take us back to the pre-Industrial Revolution time period if they could. Indeed, some of these nuts believe in culling the human race to under a billion people worldwide. How do you even hold a conversation or discussion with someone like that? You don't. They would never listen. 

Edited May 30, 2018 by SpeedFlex27

[17to85]

43 minutes ago, Mark F said:

 

If Canada can cough up the money to build a pipeline, Canada can build a refinery.

I call bs on the idea that Canadians, Albertans,  can't run a refinery and make money doing it.

It's similar to chopping down trees, and shipping them to the states, so that Americans can have the jobs making our logs into useable products.

My guess is that the oil companies in the US want to control the refining capacity in their own country. We don't have to go along with that. 

You are guilty of over simplifying things. Canada already has limited capacity to get oil to market, but if you refine the product yourselves in Alberta then you need the capacity to get a bunch of different products to market not just one. Further to that refined products expire so you have a time crunch. 

Alberta refining products just doesn't make much sense economically. There is a reason that most refineries are located with ocean access. Building massive refining capacity in a land locked province is just not going to be a thing. 

[Atomic]

SOLAR is the future of energy, here and everywhere.

We must harness the power of the sun.

[FrostyWinnipeg]

50 minutes ago, Atomic said:

SOLAR is the future of energy, here and everywhere.

We must harness the power of the sun.

[kelownabomberfan]

6 minutes ago, Mark F said:

Elizabeth May proposed doing exactly this. A few months ago.

I honestly don't trust her or the Greens.  She's at the mercy of her foreign interests that are funding her.

[Mark F]

2 hours ago, 17to85 said:

You are guilty of over simplifying things. Canada already has limited capacity to get oil to market, but if you refine the product yourselves in Alberta then you need the capacity to get a bunch of different products to market not just one. Further to that refined products expire so you have a time crunch. 

Alberta refining products just doesn't make much sense economically. There is a reason that most refineries are located with ocean access. Building massive refining capacity in a land locked province is just not going to be a thing. 

Not sure these excuses add up.

 

[Atomic]

2 minutes ago, Mark F said:

Not sure these excuses add up.

 

How do they not?  Seemed like a pretty reasonable synopsis.

[Mark F]

30 minutes ago, Atomic said:

How do they not?  Seemed like a pretty reasonable synopsis.

I just read, as an example, currently the Alberta dilbit is piped to Oklahoma. Oklahoma is landlocked. So being landlocked has nothing to do with refining crude.

time sensitive..... same thing applies. If time mattered, then it makes more sense to do it in Alberta.

Also just read..... we send the raw material to the states, they refine it, then send it back to us, and charge us for the final products. how does that make economic sense?

You're right that renewable is the future, and sadly I haven't heard a thing about investing in it, from Trudeau, or Notley, or anyone in Canada.

or encouraging investment in it, in this country. It's  just about oil.

 shortsighted.

and I admit, I know little about dilbit processing, oil markets, and the rest of it.

But It bugs me that it hasn't even been considered in public discussions.

Edited May 30, 2018 by Mark F

[SpeedFlex27]

2 hours ago, kelownabomberfan said:

I honestly don't trust her or the Greens.  She's at the mercy of her foreign interests that are funding her.

What a gig. Green leader for life. 

[SpeedFlex27]

2 hours ago, Mark F said:

Not sure these excuses add up.

 

Ten years ago the debate raged in Alberta about how it wasn't feasible to build upgraders & refineries in Alberta. That it made more economic sense to ship bitumin by pipeline in its raw form to be refined on the Gulf Coast or Chicago as it made more financial sense to do so. No oil company would build a refinery in Alberta  because of the huge construction cost & the regulatory hurdles to overcome. Provincial governments in SK & AB didn't want to get involved. Even back then, it was difficult to get a refinery built after the oil companies began closing them down in the early 80's. So 17to85 was right. They weren't & still aren't excuses, it is reality. Looking back, does the oil industry in Alberta wish that  they would have built even one new refinery after what has happened since Trudeau was elected PM. I'm sure they do but it's too late now. 

[SpeedFlex27]

1 hour ago, Mark F said:

I just read, as an example, currently the Alberta dilbit is piped to Oklahoma. Oklahoma is landlocked. So being landlocked has nothing to do with refining crude.

time sensitive..... same thing applies. If time mattered, then it makes more sense to do it in Alberta.

Also just read..... we send the raw material to the states, they refine it, then send it back to us, and charge us for the final products. how does that make economic sense?

You're right that renewable is the future, and sadly I haven't heard a thing about investing in it, from Trudeau, or Notley, or anyone in Canada.

or encouraging investment in it, in this country. It's  just about oil.

 shortsighted.

and I admit, I know little about dilbit processing, oil markets, and the rest of it.

But It bugs me that it hasn't even been considered in public discussions.

It was over a decade ago. Here in Alberta. Private oil companies & the provincial government said no. 

[kelownabomberfan]

5 hours ago, Atomic said:

SOLAR is the future of energy, here and everywhere.

We must harness the power of the sun.

I am actually a bigger fan of solar than I am of wind power.  I just don't see solar being able to meet demand for power.  Alternating power sources like wind, solar and tidal are just never going to be able to compete in terms of price with nuclear, hydro and gas cogen.  And you can do an Ontario and blow your brains out at the taxpayers' expense, but that's not a long-term strategy for success.

[kelownabomberfan]

6 hours ago, Mark F said:

Elizabeth May April 18 2018.

Again, why can't we have the refinery jobs in Canada? 

stupid thinking.

I honestly believe that May is saying these things knowing full well no refinery is going to be built in Canada.  If suddenly there was a move to build one, I would bet that she would flip-flop on this issue in two seconds.  But only because the Tides Foundation told her to do so.