Canadian Politics

[SpeedFlex27]

42 minutes ago, Noeller said:

I do like the idea of the Grits and Dippers working together to prevent the Tories (now run by their crazy fringe) from having any real power, but as Dave had mentioned, I'm not a fan of less choices to vote for (merging the NDP/LPC). I'd hate to become like the States where everyone is so polarized as one or the other that it becomes part of your DNA and you can never vote for anyone other than a certain party. Right now, the way things are with the NDP propping up the LPC in exchange for some progressive changes.... I'm a fan of that. Also, whatever it takes from letting PP be in charge. We're seeing in AB what that would be like....and I want no part of it. 

What progressive change? Universal child dental coverage? Most Canadian families won't qualify or the benefit so what's the point? Where's the universal prescription plan Trudeau promised Singh? Where's the universal dental for everyone? Singh is a rube. The Liberals will never bring in a national dental or pharmacare program. Singh looks like a fool as he  props up the Trudeau Liberals while Justin, Katy & Gerald laugh in the background. 

[Noeller]

3 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

What progressive change? Universal child dental coverage? Most Canadian families won't qualify or the benefit so what's the point? Where's the universal prescription plan Trudeau promised Singh? Where's the universal dental for everyone? Singh is a rube. The Liberals will never bring in a national dental or pharmacare program. Singh looks like a fool as he  props up the Trudeau Liberals while Justin, Katy & Gerald laugh in the background. 

You figured they would snap their fingers and it would immediately be created? These plans take time. Everyone wants these things, including the politicians, but it takes time. Baby steps. 

[SpeedFlex27]

2 minutes ago, Noeller said:

You figured they would snap their fingers and it would immediately be created? These plans take time. Everyone wants these things, including the politicians, but it takes time. Baby steps. 

I think if you asked Singh he'd say this is going on too long. I don't know what Singh expected from Trudeau but I doubt he gets it. If things don't start moving on these political fronts soon I could see this agreement starting to crumble by 2024. Trudeau may not care as he may step down as Liberal leader/Prime Minister. Maybe take a walk in the snow. I'd like to see some help for seniors with pharmaceutical & dental as we're on a fixed income so I'd support a national plan for both. 

[rebusrankin]

As somebody who has generally voted Conservative and who is not a fan of Justin in many ways, I'll take Trudeau and the Liberals any day over a guy who touts crypto as a way to avoid inflation, supports the convoy and who is clearly using Trump as his model.

[SpeedFlex27]

1 minute ago, rebusrankin said:

As somebody who has generally voted Conservative and who is not a fan of Justin in many ways, I'll take Trudeau and the Liberals any day over a guy who touts crypto as a way to avoid inflation, supports the convoy and who is clearly using Trump as his model.

I'm a conservative voter as well. There are some things about Pollievre that I like & other things that I don't like his support of the convoy & the wacko leaders last winter. However, as we found out with Erin O'Toole, the CPC need to have a clear alternative to Trudeau's Liberals. You can't muddy the waters as a middle of the road party & then wonder why you're dirty when you come out to dry. It doesn't work. Canadians seem to want an alternative so Pollievre's giving it to them. It remains to be seen if Canadians will support a leader who also supported lawlessness.

[HardCoreBlue]

4 minutes ago, rebusrankin said:

As somebody who has generally voted Conservative and who is not a fan of Justin in many ways, I'll take Trudeau and the Liberals any day over a guy who touts crypto as a way to avoid inflation, supports the convoy and who is clearly using Trump as his model.

Said every sane conservative leaning person who understands the actual reality we all presently find ourselves in.

[17to85]

All the conservatives are offering these days is outrage.

[GCn20]

1 hour ago, Wideleft said:

And yet a significant majority of Canadians support so-called wedge issues (fought for by progressives for years) like abortion, gun control, wealth distribution/inequality,  environmental protection, climate change mitigation and homelessness.

I don't think you or I speak for all centrists or the left, so I don't think that a declaration of "not feasible" is accurate - especially when you consider that some unions have outright supported conservative candidates like Ford, Katz and Trump.

Times and attitudes change and  the centre/left parties need to be as pragmatic as the majority of their supporters.

A significant majority of those who consider themselves right, or centre right, also agree with a lot of those same things. The devil is in the details though. I fully support gun control, I DO NOT support what Trudeau is doing with gun control. I fully support abortion, as do every CONS supporter I know, I fully support climate change mitigation...I do not believe a carbon tax is how we get there, I would love to see homelessness eradicated, I don't believe a super heated housing market and massive inflation as the solution. You are speaking in generalities, as if the right opposes all these things and the fact of the matter is that only the extreme right does. The vast majority of the right-centre right is in favor of all these things to some extent, the disagreement is mainly how we get there. It is boogeyman politics of the highest order to suggest that every CONS voter is an anti-abortionist, polluting, rich troglodyte....just as it is boogeyman politics to say that progressive agendas will lead to communism. Both are stupid exaggerations by those who can't see that Conservatism, Liberalism, and Progressivism all have a place on our political spectrum.

Edited December 2, 2022 by GCn20

[SpeedFlex27]

7 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

A significant majority of those who consider themselves right, or centre right, also agree with a lot of those same things. The devil is in the details though. I fully support gun control, I DO NOT support what Trudeau is doing with gun control. I fully support abortion, as do every CONS supporter I know, I fully support climate change mitigation...I do not believe a carbon tax is how we get there, I would love to see homelessness eradicated, I don't believe a super heated housing market and massive inflation as the solution. You are speaking in generalities, as if the right opposes all these things and the fact of the matter is that only the extreme right does. The vast majority of the right-centre right is in favor of all these things to some extent, the disagreement is mainly how we get there. It is boogeyman politics of the highest order to suggest that every CONS voter is an anti-abortionist, polluting, rich troglodyte....just as it is boogeyman politics to say that progressive agendas will lead to communism. Both are stupid exaggerations by those who can't see that Conservatism, Liberalism, and Progressivism all have a place on our political spectrum.

I'm definitely a right leaning centrist conservative. i agree with what you say. 

[JCon]

49 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

What progressive change? Universal child dental coverage? Most Canadian families won't qualify or the benefit so what's the point? Where's the universal prescription plan Trudeau promised Singh? Where's the universal dental for everyone? Singh is a rube. The Liberals will never bring in a national dental or pharmacare program. Singh looks like a fool as he  props up the Trudeau Liberals while Justin, Katy & Gerald laugh in the background. 

Only the poorest and those without coverage. 

 

The implementation is horrible and was forced by the NDP but it is geared at those who cannot afford it. 

I hope they expand it as part of our universal healthcare. But, I hope they expand it to include a LOT of things it doesn't currently cover. 

[Bigblue204]

41 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

I think if you asked Singh he'd say this is going on too long. I don't know what Singh expected from Trudeau but I doubt he gets it. If things don't start moving on these political fronts soon I could see this agreement starting to crumble by 2024. Trudeau may not care as he may step down as Liberal leader/Prime Minister. Maybe take a walk in the snow. I'd like to see some help for seniors with pharmaceutical & dental as we're on a fixed income so I'd support a national plan for both. 

If you believe they're actually working on this, the announcements etc won't come until we are closer to an election.

[JCon]

It's ****ing laugnable when people say they support things like abortion and gun control but oppose every measure put forward. You're not progressive, so stop pretending. 

Edited December 2, 2022 by JCon

[GCn20]

19 minutes ago, JCon said:

It's ****ing laugnable when people say they support things like abortion and gun control but oppose every measure put forward. You're not progressive, so stop pretending. 

Completely support abortion rights and believe they should be constitutionally protected, completely support gun control but NOT what the current government is putting forward. Just because someone doesn't agree with how the government is implementing something like gun control currently does not make them anti-gun control. That is what is completely laughable. A person can agree with an ideology but not the implementation the government chooses to go forward on the same ideology. To suggest otherwise is ridiculously myopic.

When single shot .22s are being outlawed then the gun control legislation needs to be looked at. I am in favor or gun control for handgun and assault weapons. The "plinker" is not either.

32 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

I'm definitely a right leaning centrist conservative. i agree with what you say. 

Apparently it is laughable to be in favor of some progressive ideologies and still be right leaning. SMH. Scares the far left to hear that for many, in fact most, the economy is just as important as progressivism is to them.

Edited December 2, 2022 by GCn20

[GCn20]

1 hour ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

What progressive change? Universal child dental coverage? Most Canadian families won't qualify or the benefit so what's the point? Where's the universal prescription plan Trudeau promised Singh? Where's the universal dental for everyone? Singh is a rube. The Liberals will never bring in a national dental or pharmacare program. Singh looks like a fool as he  props up the Trudeau Liberals while Justin, Katy & Gerald laugh in the background. 

Singh got rooked.

[HardCoreBlue]

24 minutes ago, JCon said:

It's ****ing laugnable when people say they support things like abortion and gun control but oppose every measure put forward. You're not progressive, so stop pretending. 

I’m progressive from an ideological point of view not a doing point of view.

[Wideleft]

2 minutes ago, HardCoreBlue said:

I’m progressive from an ideological point of view not a doing point of view.

And certainly not if it raises taxes by a fraction of a point!

Edited December 2, 2022 by Wideleft

[HardCoreBlue]

Just now, Wideleft said:

And certainly not if it raises taxes by a percentage of a point!

At the same time complaining of the  lack and access to infrastructure, heathcare and social services when I or my inner circle needs them!

[JCon]

9 minutes ago, HardCoreBlue said:

At the same time complaining of the  lack and access to infrastructure, heathcare and social services when I or my inner circle needs them!

I find, in general, they want their entitlements but have no concern or care about anyone else's. They want others to pay for it. That's an ideological difference. 

[blue_gold_84]

1 hour ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

There are some things about Pollievre that I like...

Name one.

[17to85]

1 hour ago, GCn20 said:

A significant majority of those who consider themselves right, or centre right, also agree with a lot of those same things. The devil is in the details though. I fully support gun control, I DO NOT support what Trudeau is doing with gun control. I fully support abortion, as do every CONS supporter I know, I fully support climate change mitigation...I do not believe a carbon tax is how we get there, I would love to see homelessness eradicated, I don't believe a super heated housing market and massive inflation as the solution. You are speaking in generalities, as if the right opposes all these things and the fact of the matter is that only the extreme right does. The vast majority of the right-centre right is in favor of all these things to some extent, the disagreement is mainly how we get there. It is boogeyman politics of the highest order to suggest that every CONS voter is an anti-abortionist, polluting, rich troglodyte....just as it is boogeyman politics to say that progressive agendas will lead to communism. Both are stupid exaggerations by those who can't see that Conservatism, Liberalism, and Progressivism all have a place on our political spectrum.

The vast majority may be in favour of these things.... but the conservative party is not. The fringe is at the wheel of that party which is why most sane people who don't vote based on party colour don't like what they are doing. Trudeau is a dunce and should be a slam Dunk win for a capable alternative... but here we are. I choose for vote for the idiot who is mostly harmless vs. The outrage party with no plans other than lower taxes! 

[Fatty Liver]

17 minutes ago, blue_gold_84 said:

Name one.

He has a punchable face?

[Wideleft]

2 hours ago, Noeller said:

I do like the idea of the Grits and Dippers working together to prevent the Tories (now run by their crazy fringe) from having any real power, but as Dave had mentioned, I'm not a fan of less choices to vote for (merging the NDP/LPC). I'd hate to become like the States where everyone is so polarized as one or the other that it becomes part of your DNA and you can never vote for anyone other than a certain party. Right now, the way things are with the NDP propping up the LPC in exchange for some progressive changes.... I'm a fan of that. Also, whatever it takes from letting PP be in charge. We're seeing in AB what that would be like....and I want no part of it. 

Alberta has 3 "major" parties.  If you don't agree, then you are acknowledging that there are really only 2 parties that matter anyway and then I don't see what we're debating.

The reality is that some Liberals are at least as progressive as members of the NDP.  Gary Doer governed like a Liberal.  Layton and Mulcair ran on platforms hardly distinguishable from the Liberals.  I'd rather see the NDP and Liberals merge in Manitoba than have another 8 years of Cons.  It would make for stronger candidates and better representation across ridings.  

I told my local Liberal candidate in the bye-election that I'm tired of voting against someone when the Liberals and NDP would govern the same in Manitoba anyway.  I'm even more tired of guessing which NDP or Liberal candidate has the best chance of knocking of the Con.  Don't get me started on how the NDP sucked enough votes in the last Federal election to keep Doug Eyolfson out of office. Now we're stuck with a frickin' professional landlord (Morantz) as an MP.

25 minutes ago, blue_gold_84 said:

Name one.

I'm afraid this could end up sounding like a conversation with Kanye.

[blue_gold_84]

4 minutes ago, Fatty Liver said:

He has a punchable face?

tHe ToLeRaNt LeFt!

1 minute ago, Wideleft said:

I'm afraid this could end up sounding like a conversation with Kanye.

Don't you mean Yedolf?

[Noeller]

2 minutes ago, Wideleft said:

Alberta has 3 "major" parties. 

2..... and it really sucks. 

[Wideleft]

Just now, Noeller said:

2..... and it really sucks. 

Not when the Alberta Liberals aren't siphoning significant votes away from the NDP it doesn't.  Again, an NDP government that governs more like a Liberal government.