Canadian Politics

[Rich]

33 minutes ago, Wideleft said:

Nah.  This is the same kind of generalization as "they're all crooks" which further leads to voter apathy.

I don't think it is a bad thing to aspire to have the leaders of our country to be more than simply "they are better than what is on the right".

I would like to see leadership in any party that can inspire the population and build trust across historical party lines.   A foolish dream?   Perhaps.  But this country is starting to become more and more divided.  And something needs to be done to start uniting the population or we will cease to be a country.

[17to85]

58 minutes ago, Wideleft said:

Nah.  This is the same kind of generalization as "they're all crooks" which further leads to voter apathy.

It might lead to apathy, but that statement is not wrong. There is a serious lack of quality politicians in this country. Too many warm bodies just to fill out ballots. Give you an example, provincial mla in my riding, ucp ****** canoe... only got to run because the candidate they chose initially opened her mouth and said problematic things so they had to bring in a guy they already rejected to run... he won because suburban calgary votes blue, and he had a rather unspectacular first term. Most notable thing he did was be vocal about the mental health impacts masking school kids had... but hey, now he is a minister! 

So no I am not trying to both sides this, but there are too many **** politicians in this county.  None of Trudeau, Pollievre or Singh are inspiring choices and that is apparently the best each major national party can offer...

[HardCoreBlue]

23 minutes ago, Rich said:

I don't think it is a bad thing to aspire to have the leaders of our country to be more than simply "they are better than what is on the right".

I would like to see leadership in any party that can inspire the population and build trust across historical party lines.   A foolish dream?   Perhaps.  But this country is starting to become more and more divided.  And something needs to be done to start uniting the population or we will cease to be a country.

I think I’m between the two comments here. On the one hand absolutely no matter what party, no matter what platform and ideology, lead with grace, humility, integrity and honesty. On the other hand, I find the argument everyone’s bad not productive. It feels like a what about argument deflecting away from the seriousness of the behaviour and at times deflecting to something that is no where near the seriousness of the original behaviour being discussed. 

[Rich]

8 minutes ago, HardCoreBlue said:

I think I’m between the two comments here. On the one hand absolutely no matter what party, no matter what platform and ideology, lead with grace, humility, integrity and honesty. On the other hand, I find the argument everyone’s bad not productive. It feels like a what about argument deflecting away from the seriousness of the behaviour and at times deflecting to something that is no where near the seriousness of the original behaviour being discussed. 

I don't think excuses should be made for bad behaviour.   It should be called out, and the fact "everyone is bad" shouldn't be an excuse.

We also shouldn't lower our expectations because one party is worse or not criticize a party because they aren't "as bad".  In the long term, a party who isn't subject to criticism and forced to answer questions on how they behave and their platform will regress and become something worse.

[HardCoreBlue]

24 minutes ago, Rich said:

I don't think excuses should be made for bad behaviour.   It should be called out, and the fact "everyone is bad" shouldn't be an excuse.

We also shouldn't lower our expectations because one party is worse or not criticize a party because they aren't "as bad".  In the long term, a party who isn't subject to criticism and forced to answer questions on how they behave and their platform will regress and become something worse.

Didn't say or imply that if that's how you interpreted my post.

Of course, each scenario should be evaluated and critically looked at on it's own merits. Rarely do I think yea this behaviour is bad (immediately stop thinking about it) but look over there, that's just as bad or much worse. If I do compare, I try to compare an apple to an apple (or at least some other fruit), not an Apple to an Alien. 

Edited December 14, 2022 by HardCoreBlue
Fantastic grammar skills strike again.

[Bigblue204]

10 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Yeah, must be great to just wait out the previous generation so yours can take over & make everything right. No more war, no more poverty, no more inequality. You'll raise your kids right. The way I see it, your generation will **** up just as bad or worse than mine did. And yours will **** up.... it's guaranteed. Every other generation did. 

 

[Tracker]

Generalizations are rarely helpful, but sometimes accurate. Both Left and Right wings have extremists but nowhere have the Left wingers exhibited the propensity towards authoritarianism and violence that the right wingers have. 

[GCn20]

2 hours ago, Rich said:

I don't think it is a bad thing to aspire to have the leaders of our country to be more than simply "they are better than what is on the right".

I would like to see leadership in any party that can inspire the population and build trust across historical party lines.   A foolish dream?   Perhaps.  But this country is starting to become more and more divided.  And something needs to be done to start uniting the population or we will cease to be a country.

I agree. When our choices start becoming degrees of bad we are in rough shape. The far right of the spectrum is a gong show, the far left is starting to blaze a trail there themselves. One should not have to plug their nose and vote and that is quite frankly the choices we are starting to see provincially and federally. Hate this my arm pits stink but so and so's stink worse line of rationalization for what has become very awful populist politics employed by both sides of the political spectrum.

33 minutes ago, Tracker said:

Generalizations are rarely helpful, but sometimes accurate. Both Left and Right wings have extremists but nowhere have the Left wingers exhibited the propensity towards authoritarianism and violence that the right wingers have. 

I will agree that the far left is not at the bottom of turd hill yet, but they are certainly on there way and not showing any signs of slowing down. But hey....let's point fingers and deflect.

[Bigblue204]

42 minutes ago, Tracker said:

Generalizations are rarely helpful, but sometimes accurate. Both Left and Right wings have extremists but nowhere have the Left wingers exhibited the propensity towards authoritarianism and violence that the right wingers have. 

I dont know. They've certainly showed it (that weird make shift town thing in seattle) but not at the same rate.

[17to85]

I just want better from all politicians. These people are supposed to represent us as voters and work towards making the country better. I don't want an empty suit who is only capable of showing up to vote along party lines. That doesn't benefit anyone. 

Also why I will likely cast my vote for the ndp provincially... I have no clue what kind of warm body they will run here, but Rachel Notley might be the beat politician in the country at this time. 

[Mark H.]

1 hour ago, 17to85 said:

Also why I will likely cast my vote for the ndp provincially... I have no clue what kind of warm body they will run here, but Rachel Notley might be the beat politician in the country at this time. 

Token candidates are definitely a problem. I think they should be using ridings that are strong for opposition, to test the mettle of an up and coming candidate.  But they don't. It's usually lather, rinse, repeat.

 

[JCon]

2 minutes ago, Mark H. said:

Token candidates are definitely a problem. I think they should be using ridings that are strong for opposition, to test the mettle of an up and coming candidate.  But they don't. It's usually lather, rinse, repeat.

 

Dancho was used by the Provincial PCs to test hers in Wolseley. Then, she snuck in and took the CPC nomination. 

[Mark H.]

56 minutes ago, JCon said:

Dancho was used by the Provincial PCs to test hers in Wolseley. Then, she snuck in and took the CPC nomination. 

Yes, of course there are always exceptions

[Mark H.]

Drew Caldwell's take on the recent byelection.

Not a safe Tory seat, however. Not by a long shot. We owned it for nearly a decade in the #DoerSelinger years, so this loss to a parachute candidate representing a massively unpopular government ought be an urgent wake-up call.

[WildPath]

6 hours ago, Mark H. said:

Drew Caldwell's take on the recent byelection.

Not a safe Tory seat, however. Not by a long shot. We owned it for nearly a decade in the #DoerSelinger years, so this loss to a parachute candidate representing a massively unpopular government ought be an urgent wake-up call.

Potentially, but I still see the outcome as the result of vote splitting. Liberals made almost 12% gains in the riding, which combined with NDP were over 20%. My anecdotal experience of seeing many houses displaying both NDP and Liberal signs at the same time indicates that there was a clear desire to remove the PCs.

Klein is definitely a known name, especially with his recent failed mayoral election campaign. Both the Liberal and NDP candidates were running for the first time that I know of.

Combined with the narrow win Obby Khan in the PC stronghold of Fort Whyte, this should be concerning to all parties. PCs are seeing large losses while NDP and Liberals are finding difficulty breaking through due to vote splitting between the two. My take on this is that if we have electoral reform like ranked ballots, the PCs wouldn't stand a chance.

[Mark H.]

I think Caldwell is also implying "with a premier this unpoplar, we should be winning that seat."

I would also add, we will probably get a minority, one way or another, this spring.

[GCn20]

1 hour ago, WildPath said:

Potentially, but I still see the outcome as the result of vote splitting. Liberals made almost 12% gains in the riding, which combined with NDP were over 20%. My anecdotal experience of seeing many houses displaying both NDP and Liberal signs at the same time indicates that there was a clear desire to remove the PCs.

Klein is definitely a known name, especially with his recent failed mayoral election campaign. Both the Liberal and NDP candidates were running for the first time that I know of.

Combined with the narrow win Obby Khan in the PC stronghold of Fort Whyte, this should be concerning to all parties. PCs are seeing large losses while NDP and Liberals are finding difficulty breaking through due to vote splitting between the two. My take on this is that if we have electoral reform like ranked ballots, the PCs wouldn't stand a chance.

It was definitely a result of vote splitting. The NDP should be very concerned that they couldn't pull either Obby's or Klein's seat away. As much as this should concern the PCs, it should concern the NDP just as much...maybe more. The NDP are obviously not trusted by Manitobans in these swing ridings either. RIghtfully so probably. The rural is going to be blue again. That is without doubt. If the NDP want to form government they are going to have to either hope for a Liberal collapse to under 10% of the vote or figure out a way to take these swing ridings despite the vote split. Until yesterday I would have predicted an NDP majority next election, now I think we almost certainly get a minority and it's a coin flip who the premier will be.

[rebusrankin]

I agree its a concern for the NDP but for the Tories as well. They barely won two of the safest seats for them in the province.

[JCon]

It's a by-election in Manitoba, which means it's the only time the Libs can actually run a decent campaign. They can focus all their energy. Whereas, during a full election, the election machines of the NDP and the PCs are in full swing and absolutely dominate the Libs. 

The NDP will take this seat next fall. 

 

---

Been thinking hard on the idea of a spring election. I don't by it. There's zero advantage to run one in spring. They'll want to release their election budget and run on that. Too much free publicity. Lots of new promises and find ways to screw the next gov't. Cut taxes, raise spending. 

[GCn20]

33 minutes ago, rebusrankin said:

I agree its a concern for the NDP but for the Tories as well. They barely won two of the safest seats for them in the province.

Absolutely huge concern for the PCs as well.

11 minutes ago, JCon said:

It's a by-election in Manitoba, which means it's the only time the Libs can actually run a decent campaign. They can focus all their energy. Whereas, during a full election, the election machines of the NDP and the PCs are in full swing and absolutely dominate the Libs. 

The NDP will take this seat next fall. 

 

---

Been thinking hard on the idea of a spring election. I don't by it. There's zero advantage to run one in spring. They'll want to release their election budget and run on that. Too much free publicity. Lots of new promises and find ways to screw the next gov't. Cut taxes, raise spending. 

The advantage to a spring campaign is no summer of fundraising for the NDP, who lag far behind in election coffers. I am not buying your byelection theory either. Yes, the Liberals could focus on one seat, same goes for the NDP and PCs though. The Liberals got the votes they got simply because they managed to find a great candidate, and the fact nobody really likes the PCs or NDP. This is the type of election that can be won in the campaign by the NDP or PCs. Neither is very well regarded.

Edited December 15, 2022 by GCn20

[WildPath]

12 minutes ago, JCon said:

It's a by-election in Manitoba, which means it's the only time the Libs can actually run a decent campaign. They can focus all their energy. Whereas, during a full election, the election machines of the NDP and the PCs are in full swing and absolutely dominate the Libs. 

The NDP will take this seat next fall. 

 

---

Been thinking hard on the idea of a spring election. I don't by it. There's zero advantage to run one in spring. They'll want to release their election budget and run on that. Too much free publicity. Lots of new promises and find ways to screw the next gov't. Cut taxes, raise spending. 

One thing with the two most recent by-elections is that it shows voters who is the contender if they want to replace the PCs, which I think both ridings and many others in the province clearly do. The results in Fort Whyte show that, if you want to replace the PCs, you should vote for the Liberals. The results from Kirkfield Park don't really indicate who to focus votes on, but seeing as NDP were second, I'd assume a lot of the Liberal support there will go to defeating the PCs when it really matters. I think Dougald and the Liberal's strategy in these byelections is to show that they should be considered the frontrunner for the non-PC vote and they performed fairly well in that respect.

Curious to where longtime PC voters place their votes if they choose not to support the party in the next election. Do they consider the Liberals? Do they just stay home on election day? The divide between the PCs and the other parties likely makes it difficult for them to park their votes elsewhere.

I'd like for there to be three legitimate parties in Manitoba which make it hard to win a majority, but unfortunately the distance between the PCs and Lib/NDP mean that any non-PC vote will be split. This gives the PCs a chance to remain in power while being remarkably disliked.

[blue_gold_84]

https://globalnews.ca/news/9348321/danielle-smith-alberta-sovereignty-indian-act-comments/

Quote

Treaty 6 chiefs say they have concluded that Premier Danielle Smith neither respects nor understands treaty rights and Indigenous history after hearing comments she made in the Alberta legislature Tuesday.

Smith compared the treatment of Alberta by the federal government to Canada’s treatment of Indigenous people under the Indian Act — a comment that has left Indigenous leaders and others feeling frustrated and angry.

“This is all about making sure Ottawa stays out of our jurisdiction,” Smith said as she addressed the legislative assembly. “The way I’ve described it to the chiefs that I’ve spoken with is that they have fought a battle over the last number of years to get sovereignty respected and to extract themselves from the paternalistic Indian Act.

“We get treated the exact same way from Ottawa. They interfere in our jurisdiction all the time and we look forward to pushing back and being treated exactly like Quebec.”

After facing backlash for the comments, Smith told the house on Wednesday that she is sorry if she did not make her point clearly.

“If my comments were misconstrued, I absolutely apologize for it because my intention was to demonstrate that we have a common problem with Ottawa,” she said.

“Ottawa, I think, unfortunately, treats First Nations with disrespect and they also treat provinces with disrespect.”

A common problem? No. Not even close. What a woefully stupid human she is.

[GCn20]

10 minutes ago, WildPath said:

One thing with the two most recent by-elections is that it shows voters who is the contender if they want to replace the PCs, which I think both ridings and many others in the province clearly do. The results in Fort Whyte show that, if you want to replace the PCs, you should vote for the Liberals. The results from Kirkfield Park don't really indicate who to focus votes on, but seeing as NDP were second, I'd assume a lot of the Liberal support there will go to defeating the PCs when it really matters. I think Dougald and the Liberal's strategy in these byelections is to show that they should be considered the frontrunner for the non-PC vote and they performed fairly well in that respect.

Curious to where longtime PC voters place their votes if they choose not to support the party in the next election. Do they consider the Liberals? Do they just stay home on election day? The divide between the PCs and the other parties likely makes it difficult for them to park their votes elsewhere.

I'd like for there to be three legitimate parties in Manitoba which make it hard to win a majority, but unfortunately the distance between the PCs and Lib/NDP mean that any non-PC vote will be split. This gives the PCs a chance to remain in power while being remarkably disliked.

I can tell you with absolute certainty that long time PC support will remain PC. Whether they show up to vote or not is the question. The swing voters in the city is where the election will be won or lost. The PC core is not in play or only a very, very small amount of it. The PC core will not waste it's time with the LIberals, will never vote NDP under any circumstance, and will punish the PC party in the way it always has by not showing up for them on election day. In rural Manitoba, the Libs and NDP may as well just not show up. I cannot see there being more than 2-3 seat gain for the NDP in the rural...they are absolutely reviled outside the perimeter.

Edited December 15, 2022 by GCn20

[Wideleft]

The main factor that no one is talking about in the Kirkfield Park bye-election is that not a single poll was conducted.  The ABC vote was pure guesswork.  I asked canvassers point-blank what the internal polls were saying and no one would answer.

The NDP made a big mistake in not commissioning a poll that would have provided direction for voters who weren't sure about the best ABC option or to motivate the apathetic ABC voters to get out and vote.

[rebusrankin]

The Liberal Party doesn't have the same funds or party apparatus as the other two parties so JCon's point about being able to focus on one race versus 57 is legit.

Southern Manitoba will vote PC no question but I think other ridings outside Winnipeg are in play. Winnipeg decides it and if polling holds, the PCs are going to do poorly in Winnipeg. Terrible numbers in Winnipeg and woman voters especially dislike them.