Canadian Politics

[pigseye]

20 minutes ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

Did those people get dropped by the party or were they promoted to form the parties leader's senior staff?

How the party responds is very telling.

Clearly the vetting process didn't work, or someone looked the other way and hoped that nobody would notice. In either case, you can't get only a little pregnant. If the media hadn't stumbled upon this information, we'd have racists being elected in those parties, shameful. 

Edited September 12, 2019 by pigseye
r

[pigseye]

The NDP are a train wreck, the Greens may end with more seats then them. Talk about a shift away from the left. 

[Mark H.]

20 minutes ago, pigseye said:

The NDP are a train wreck, the Greens may end with more seats then them. Talk about a shift away from the left. 

That's doubtful - the NDP has many long serving MPs who are solidly entrenched in their local ridings.

Who can even name a Green candidate (without Google) outside of Elizabeth May?

 

[kelownabomberfan]

3 hours ago, Mark H. said:

That's doubtful - the NDP has many long serving MPs who are solidly entrenched in their local ridings.

Who can even name a Green candidate (without Google) outside of Elizabeth May?

 

Bruce Hyer.  Now here's one - can you name a Green candidate who wasn't born in the US.  

[rebusrankin]

55 minutes ago, kelownabomberfan said:

Bruce Hyer.  Now here's one - can you name a Green candidate who wasn't born in the US.  

James Bedomme

[FrostyWinnipeg]

https://winnipeg.ctvnews.ca/conservative-candidate-for-winnipeg-north-steps-down-in-light-of-discriminatory-social-media-posts-1.4590997

https://pressprogress.ca/proud-to-be-white-conservative-candidate-resigns-after-secret-anti-immigrant-facebook-account-discovered

 

Edited September 13, 2019 by FrostyWinnipeg

[Fatty Liver]

6 hours ago, kelownabomberfan said:

Unfortunately $30 million is nothing compared to the billions of dollars from US "environmental groups" who fund all of the law-suits that tie up Canadian oil and gas pipeline development indefinitely, leaving this giant pool of cheap energy for the US to exploit.  And the people here in Canada just fall for it over and over and over again.  I support some kind of action to counter the nonsense from foreign interests, but $30 million ain't nearly enough.

Sorry you missed the point of my post, it was to illustrate that Postmedia is anxious to climb into bed with the Conservatives in order to spread misinformation in the form of "advertorials" throughout their media outlets.  An example of which was just debunked by Wideleft's post above, the oil end of the equation was discussed previously prior to the Alberta election.

[kelownabomberfan]

1 hour ago, Throw Long Bannatyne said:

Sorry you missed the point of my post, it was to illustrate that Postmedia is anxious to climb into bed with the Conservatives in order to spread misinformation in the form of "advertorials" throughout their media outlets.  An example of which was just debunked by Wideleft's post above, the oil end of the equation was discussed previously prior to the Alberta election.

What kind of "misinformation" would that be? My understanding is that the Conservatives are trying to fight a losing battle against extremely well funded US anti-pipeline slimeballs. What is your information?

[JCon]

7 hours ago, kelownabomberfan said:

What kind of "misinformation" would that be? My understanding is that the Conservatives are trying to fight a losing battle against extremely well funded US anti-pipeline slimeballs. What is your information?

Won't someone think of the poor oil companies. They're just the little guy, trying to make ends meet. 

[17to85]

The problem in this country with regards to oil isn't the money from foreign groups trying to stop pipelines, the problem is that there isn't a single big picture thinking political party in our country right now. They're all focused on the small petty crap and no one has a vision or plan to take the country forward. Too risky and too long term so no one worries about long term good of the country, they just focus on what ever little boutique tax cut or program they can give to get themselves more votes in the next election.  

[kelownabomberfan]

1 hour ago, JCon said:

Won't someone think of the poor oil companies. They're just the little guy, trying to make ends meet. 

completely missed the point.  Having no pipelines means we sell our oil at a much cheaper rate, and you know who suffers?  All Canadians!  We get way less in taxes!!  It's not about "oil companies", it's about our country.  And like I said, $30 million isn't nearly enough to combat the forces of evil trying to keep Canadians from getting more money in our pockets.  Somehow, Norway is always held up as some gold standard because they have this giant oil fund.  Great for them!  They sell their oil for way more per barrel than we do, because they aren't land-locked.  Why can't we be like Norway?  Because we live next door to a neighbour that doesn't play fair.  And we fall for this nonsense they peddle, and allow them to control our courts.  It's just so sad.

[tacklewasher]

1 hour ago, JCon said:

Won't someone think of the poor oil companies. They're just the little guy, trying to make ends meet. 

Who employ thousands of people.

[kelownabomberfan]

35 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

The problem in this country with regards to oil isn't the money from foreign groups trying to stop pipelines, the problem is that there isn't a single big picture thinking political party in our country right now. They're all focused on the small petty crap and no one has a vision or plan to take the country forward. Too risky and too long term so no one worries about long term good of the country, they just focus on what ever little boutique tax cut or program they can give to get themselves more votes in the next election.  

our pipeline just got held up again in court because our government (Federal) couldn't be bothered to show up to present evidence.  Why didn't they?  

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

1 hour ago, kelownabomberfan said:

our pipeline just got held up again in court because our government (Federal) couldn't be bothered to show up to present evidence.  Why didn't they?  

Why do we even need another pipeline?

That is just going to increase the amount we produce and contribute even more to the climate crisis. I think we should be ramping production down and gradually shifting towards renewable energy. 

[Wideleft]

9 minutes ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

Why do we even need another pipeline?

That is just going to increase the amount we produce and contribute even more to the climate crisis. I think we should be ramping production down and gradually shifting towards renewable energy. 

The world is getting it, but Canada is slow to adapt.  

For the first time (article from 2016), there are more people employed in renewable energy worldwide than there are in oil and gas.

That statistic — based on data in a recent report from the International Renewable Energy Agency (IRENA) — should be a wake-up call to Canada, where a large part of the economic debate continues to focus on pripeline construction and hopes for an oil-price rebound.

The renewables sector employed 8.1 million people in 2015, up five per cent in a year, the report said, while oil and gas lost some 250,000 jobs by the end of 2015. And for the sixth year running, more money was invested worldwide into expanding renewable energy production than into oil and gas production.

Jobs-wise China is leading the way, with more than 3.5 million employed in renewable energy (compared to 2.6 million employed in oil), followed by Brazil (918,000 jobs) and the U.S. with 769,000 renewable energy jobs.

 

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/06/13/canada-oil-renewables-energy_n_10441636.html

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

Fun stuff here, MAxime Bernier 2.0- a better, funnier, and more rhinoy Maxime.

 

https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/election-2019/rhino-party-says-its-maxime-bernier-to-run-in-same-riding-as-ppcs-maxime-bernier

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/maxime-bernier-rhino-party-beauce-1.5278902

"In a statement to Radio-Canada, the PPC said it was "a good joke" but that they were "confident that the people of Beauce will vote for the Maxime Bernier they know, and not the one imported from Lac Saint-Jean."

As for the Rhino candidate, he said that if anyone is confused, they can refer back to his slogan.

"If you're not sure, then vote for both!""

Edited September 13, 2019 by wanna-b-fanboy

[Wideleft]

The hesitation I believe is that exporting green energy in Canada's case doesn't make a lot sense as our market would be limited to the northern states primarily.  We need to turn our thinking around and accept that access to energy is a right and not a commodity to fully transition to green energy and that's one of the things that scares big oil.

[17to85]

31 minutes ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

Why do we even need another pipeline?

That is just going to increase the amount we produce and contribute even more to the climate crisis. I think we should be ramping production down and gradually shifting towards renewable energy. 

Tell the rest of the world that. All we are doing in that scenario is harming ourselves out of stubborn pride. The world isn't getting off oil, all that happens when we don't produce is other countries make that money instead. 

Now speaking as someone who worked in oil and gas I can tell you it's not the big oil companies that are having problems, they're still making gobs of money, but people like me haven't had a well to work on in a year now, my boss who employed at the peak had 20-25 people working consistently now even questions why he bothers going downtown anymore. And that's just one geological consulting company. The story is the same for everyone right now. There are lots of jobs out there, but they're all minimum wage jobs and if you do see something decent posted you get 600+ applications. Even trying to pivot into a somewhat related area you can't get any traction for a lot of reasons. Too many highly skilled and qualified people looking for work and hiring managers think because of that they can get the perfect candidate who is willing to work for poor wages. 

All because the governments in this country both federally and provincial and from all different parties can't get their **** together and build any projects in the best interests of the country. 

Honestly I don't want to vote for anyone in this coming federal election because no one is offering any solutions to the problems we are facing as a country. 

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

56 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Tell the rest of the world that. All we are doing in that scenario is harming ourselves out of stubborn pride. The world isn't getting off oil, all that happens when we don't produce is other countries make that money instead. 

Now speaking as someone who worked in oil and gas I can tell you it's not the big oil companies that are having problems, they're still making gobs of money, but people like me haven't had a well to work on in a year now, my boss who employed at the peak had 20-25 people working consistently now even questions why he bothers going downtown anymore. And that's just one geological consulting company. The story is the same for everyone right now. There are lots of jobs out there, but they're all minimum wage jobs and if you do see something decent posted you get 600+ applications. Even trying to pivot into a somewhat related area you can't get any traction for a lot of reasons. Too many highly skilled and qualified people looking for work and hiring managers think because of that they can get the perfect candidate who is willing to work for poor wages. 

All because the governments in this country both federally and provincial and from all different parties can't get their **** together and build any projects in the best interests of the country. 

Honestly I don't want to vote for anyone in this coming federal election because no one is offering any solutions to the problems we are facing as a country. 

First of all. That sucks and I hope things work out better for you.

I don't see why it is impossible to switch focus and transition to green tech. Of course it will take lots of buy in from the federal government- but it can happen- there are many positions that can be created in a renewable energy sector. 

We need to move away from fossil fuels and we need to help those in that industry make the transition as painlessly as possible with any types of incentives and subsidies.

As for doing this for nothing than pride? It's more than that, you can't make the rest of the world move off of oil- you can only control what you can. We do what we can and show people that it can be done. Do what you can.

 

I just wish there was some strong leadership that would tackle this issue with the severity that it requires.

Edited September 13, 2019 by wanna-b-fanboy

[kelownabomberfan]

1 hour ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

Why do we even need another pipeline?

It's simple math.  If we can ship product to a foreign market, we get more money for our oil.  If we don't have a pipeline to tidewater, the oil has to flow, to the US.  Via railcar.  This doesn't help anyone.  Including the environment.  It's bad policy.  We need more pipelines.

1 hour ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

That is just going to increase the amount we produce

One of the biggest fallacies of the entire anti-pipeline argument.  It's not about increasing the amount that Canada produces.  It's about getting more for the product we are already producing.

1 hour ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

and contribute even more to the climate crisis.

I don't know what a "climate crisis" is but every week there seems to be a new fear-mongering term that is created to describe the hypothesis of man-made climate change.  This pipeline argument has nothing to do with that hypothesis, and its disingenuous to even go there.

1 hour ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

I think we should be ramping production down and gradually shifting towards renewable energy. 

And if you are capable of doing math, you'd see that this is a policy of economic destruction.  Of course, if you subscribe to the chicken little sky is falling panicky stuff about the man-made climate change hypothesis, then all bad economy-destroying ideas are good ones, because you can justify anything, no matter how silly or uneconomic, when you are being panicked by special interests.

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

56 minutes ago, kelownabomberfan said:

It's simple math.  If we can ship product to a foreign market, we get more money for our oil.  If we don't have a pipeline to tidewater, the oil has to flow, to the US.  Via railcar.  This doesn't help anyone.  Including the environment.  It's bad policy.  We need more pipelines.

Why invest so much into a project that is not going to justify it's cost in the end- it would be better to keep that money and put it towards renewable energy. The tar sands are going to become a stranded asset- at which point the money for the pipeline is just wasted. That's bad policy. we need to invest that money into renewables.

 

Quote

One of the biggest fallacies of the entire anti-pipeline argument.  It's not about increasing the amount that Canada produces.  It's about getting more for the product we are already producing.

"A recent National Energy Board report on Canada’s Energy Future concludes we have the potential to increase production of many forms of energy, both renewable and from fossil fuel sources. But, one of the factors continuing to affect our ability to increase production is our capacity to transport those commodities to market. In other words, we’re being held back by a lack of market access for our energy resources."

-https://www.aboutpipelines.com/en/blog/why-canada-needs-more-pipelines/

sourced from:

https://www.cer-rec.gc.ca/nrg/ntgrtd/ftr/2018/chptr5-eng.html

Not much of a fallacy.

-

Quote

I don't know what a "climate crisis" is but every week there seems to be a new fear-mongering term that is created to describe the hypothesis of man-made climate change.  This pipeline argument has nothing to do with that hypothesis, and its disingenuous to even go there.

Increased production leads to increased carbon which is a main driver of climate change. Just because you don't believe in the science, doesn't make it debatable. 

 

 

Quote

And if you are capable of doing math, you'd see that this is a policy of economic destruction.  Of course, if you subscribe to the chicken little sky is falling panicky stuff about the man-made climate change hypothesis, then all bad economy-destroying ideas are good ones, because you can justify anything, no matter how silly or uneconomic, when you are being panicked by special interests.

Well- I am going to believe reality- you can go on an deny it all you want, that's on you. I think an evidenced based approach to decision making is the best way to move forward- I don't think that it is in most people's interests to just ignore the evidence and just plow through with the pipelines.

 

Edited September 13, 2019 by wanna-b-fanboy

[kelownabomberfan]

3 minutes ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

Why invest so much into a project that is not going to justify it's cost in the end-

Of course it's going to justify its cost.  It's silly to even suggest otherwise.

3 minutes ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

 

 

3 minutes ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

 

Well- I am going to believe reality- you can go on an deny it all you want, that's on you. I think an evidenced based approach to decision making is the best way to move forward- I don't think that it is in most people's interests to just ignore the evidence and just plow through with the pipelines.

 

It's a complete fallacy to suggest that Canada's production, even if increased because of pipelines, is going to have any effect whatsoever on this man-made climate change thingey.  It's like certain groups of Canadians willingly want to be martyrs and cause Canadians mass suffering for absolutely no gain to anyone for some reason.  It makes NO sense, and is ridiculous to even contemplate.

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

1 minute ago, kelownabomberfan said:

Of course it's going to justify its cost.  It's silly to even suggest otherwise.

Why is it silly? the tar sands will not be able to compete with renewables in the near future. If it was sweet light crude.. maybe- but not the tar sands. If you don't believe me- go a research how many investors have pulled out of the tar sands, check on investment managers at pension funds, insurance companies, philanthropic foundations and universities that are divesting from tar sand holdings for economic reasons. Seven of the world’s largest multinational oil corporations sold off their Alberta holdings. 

What's silly is banking on the tar sands as a sure bet. Look at what happened when OPEC dropped the price of sweet light crude? What happened? Were the tar sands flourishing at that point? Maybe @ $100+/barrel- sure. but not at $50 a barrel.. and the price of oil is going to drop. 

So- at the end, when renewables are competitive with tar sands bitumen- do you think the price will be worth it? to continue with tar sands? and then at that point, you get a stranded "asset" with a pipeline that is not fully paid for and is a shitty investment.

 

1 minute ago, kelownabomberfan said:

 

It's a complete fallacy to suggest that Canada's production, even if increased because of pipelines, is going to have any effect whatsoever on this man-made climate change thingey.  It's like certain groups of Canadians willingly want to be martyrs and cause Canadians mass suffering for absolutely no gain to anyone for some reason.  It makes NO sense, and is ridiculous to even contemplate.

Like I said- you may not want to believe all the "hysteria", but the science backs it up. I am going to base my opinion on evidence not wishful thinking.

[kelownabomberfan]

21 minutes ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

Why is it silly? the tar sands will not be able to compete with renewables in the near future.

This statement makes no sense.   Let's just agree to disagree on this and move on.

21 minutes ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

 

 

If it was sweet light crude.. maybe- but not the tar sands.

I don't know what "tar sands" are, but I assume this is a reference to oil trapped in sand in the Fort McMurray area?  You know that Alberta has other sources of oil right?  And Saskatchewan too?  And Manitoba?  To say that all of the oil in Canada comes from oil sand is the height of ignorance.  But like I said, time to move on.

21 minutes ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

 

Like I said- you may not want to believe all the "hysteria", but the science backs it up. I am going to base my opinion on evidence not wishful thinking.

Science doesn't back up anything that you are saying.  If "science" is saying that bankrupting Canada and forcing the entire country into poverty will end this "climate crisis" fallacy, then show me where it says that.  The entire concept is just poppycock.  It's not just "wishful thinking" to say that Canada needs to destroy it's economy, it's madness.  

As with all of our discussions, we just end up so diametrically opposed that there is no even half-way.  I've said what I've had to say.  I have zero respect for anyone who against more pipelines in Canada.  These people are truly clueless and oblivious to reality.

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

49 minutes ago, kelownabomberfan said:

This statement makes no sense.   Let's just agree to disagree on this and move on.

I don't know what "tar sands" are, but I assume this is a reference to oil trapped in sand in the Fort McMurray area?  You know that Alberta has other sources of oil right?  And Saskatchewan too?  And Manitoba?  To say that all of the oil in Canada comes from oil sand is the height of ignorance.  But like I said, time to move on.

Science doesn't back up anything that you are saying.  If "science" is saying that bankrupting Canada and forcing the entire country into poverty will end this "climate crisis" fallacy, then show me where it says that.  The entire concept is just poppycock.  It's not just "wishful thinking" to say that Canada needs to destroy it's economy, it's madness.  

As with all of our discussions, we just end up so diametrically opposed that there is no even half-way.  I've said what I've had to say.  I have zero respect for anyone who against more pipelines in Canada.  These people are truly clueless and oblivious to reality.

That is a clumsily veiled "**** you"- thanks, I appreciate that.

Anyways, I am not going to take the bait- You do you.

As always, good chat. 

 

Edited September 13, 2019 by wanna-b-fanboy