Canadian Politics

[blue_gold_84]

1 minute ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Seven million Ukrainians who Stalin starved to death in the 1920's would take issue with your second sentence about Communism being noble & a good idea if they could.  My uncle lost his family & for the rest of his life he  hated the Russians. Couldn't even mention the word Russian around him.

First of all, Holodomor took place in the early 1930s. And it was a calculated move carried out by the Soviet Union under Stalin to combat an attempted independence movement in Ukraine at the time. It had far less do with communism itself and much more to do with Joseph Stalin being a power hungry, genocidal, totalitarian ideologue.

I highly doubt the ancestors of those affected would feel inclined to split hairs over political ideology when it comes to discussing that genocide.

[SpeedFlex27]

1 minute ago, 17to85 said:

Stalin is hardly representative of the ideals of communism. More dictator than communist if you ask me.

And that describes what communism was all about. Everywhere. It was never noble.

[Wideleft]

1 minute ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Seven million Ukrainians who Stalin starved to death in the 1920's would take issue with your second sentence about Communism being noble & a good idea if they could.  My uncle lost his family & for the rest of his life he  hated the Russians. Couldn't even mention the word Russian around him.

Stalin was a monster and his implementation of communism was at odds with the idea of a classless, egalitarian society.  A real communist (in the Ancient Greek/Persian sense) would not have made Ukraine expendable.   By the same token, the feudal system pretty much did the same thing to Ireland - just on a different scale.

[SpeedFlex27]

1 minute ago, blue_gold_84 said:

First of all, Holodomor took place in the early 1930s. And it was a calculated move carried out by the Soviet Union under Stalin to combat an attempted independence movement in Ukraine at the time. It had far less do with communism itself and much more to do with Joseph Stalin being a power hungry, genocidal, totalitarian ideologue.

I highly doubt the ancestors of those affected would feel inclined to split hairs over political ideology when it comes to discussing that genocide.

Name me one Communist leader who was kindly?

[SpeedFlex27]

1 minute ago, Wideleft said:

Stalin was a monster and his implementation of communism was at odds with the idea of a classless, egalitarian society.  A real communist (in the Ancient Greek/Persian sense) would not have made Ukraine expendable.   By the same token, the feudal system pretty much did the same thing to Ireland - just on a different scale.

The Communist system allowed for monsters like Stalin to rise to power all over the world where Communism reigned.

[17to85]

3 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

And that describes what communism was all about. Everywhere. It was never noble.

you are confusing the principles of communism with the flawed implementation of it. 

[Wideleft]

1 minute ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

The Communist system allowed for monsters like Stalin to rise to power all over the world where Communism reigned.

Monsters have emerged from all political and religious stripes. Even the Buddhists are committing genocide - again.

[SpeedFlex27]

1 minute ago, Wideleft said:

Monsters have emerged from all political and religious stripes. Even the Buddhists are committing genocide - again.

Yep.

[blue_gold_84]

4 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Name me one Communist leader who was kindly?

Way to miss the point. Your previous comment re: Holodomor was way off, so you respond to being corrected by posing a question, deflecting from you mistake. Makes sense... I can see history is your strong suit. But sure, I'll answer your dumb question: Mikhail Gorbachev.

Keep digging that hole, though. It's entertaining.

[Rich]

I get the allure of the principles of communism, the problem is it has never successfully been implemented.  And most countries who try have always said .. yeah but what happened before wasn't TRUE communism, we will do it right, but nobody has.   You may be able to successfully implement it in a society of 100 - 250 people, but at mass scale it does not work.   In pretty much every instance the people with the best of intentions for the populace are either dead or in prison within the first few years.  Then the fun happens.  This book should be mandatory reading to understand the dangers and what has gone in in communist countries.

https://www.amazon.ca/Gulag-Archipelago-Aleksandr-Solzhenitsyn/dp/1843430851/ref=sr_1_2?crid=309F29F30CCWZ&keywords=the+gulag+archipelago&qid=1568921052&s=gateway&sprefix=the+gulag+ar%2Caps%2C171&sr=8-2

What we have here in the West isn't perfect, but it has lasted longer and has spread more wealth and improved the quality of living of people at all levels of society far more then other then other structures.  Is it perfect?  No.  Should we keep trying to make it better?  Of course.  But it doesn't mean the whole system should be thrown out.

[kelownabomberfan]

41 minutes ago, Throw Long Bannatyne said:

Sure, it's their vote, what right do I have to tell people who to vote for?  Maybe stop looking at the world as if you have the only perspective that is valid.

ha ha yes all I can say is, it would be nice if people from both sides of the spectrum started adhering to this advice.

[kelownabomberfan]

25 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Name me one Communist leader who was kindly?

I bet if Cal Murphy was a communist he'd be kindly.

[kelownabomberfan]

17 minutes ago, blue_gold_84 said:

Way to miss the point. Your previous comment re: Holodomor was way off, so you respond to being corrected by posing a question, deflecting from you mistake. Makes sense... I can see history is your strong suit. But sure, I'll answer your dumb question: Mikhail Gorbachev.

Mikhail Gorbachev was kindly.  Oh my goodness.

17 minutes ago, blue_gold_84 said:

Keep digging that hole, though. It's entertaining.

Yes, it's been fun watching the propaganda pouring out here in favor of Communism.  What a sad testament to our educational system.

[kelownabomberfan]

LOL - just received an email from an American pal asking me how to apply blackface for his Halloween costume, as apparently we Canadians are experts at it.  This is big news in the US as Americans are loving seeing the sanctimonious foreign virtue signaler and world elitist Trudeau being hoist on his own petard.  

[pigseye]

24 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Do you like anyone or will you just spoil your ballot in every future election?

I like Singh and May as leaders but will never vote for either, they're platforms are unrealistic and beyond affordable, they would do so much harm to the economic foundations of this country that we would never recover (think Ontario under Wynne x 1000). I only vote Liberal when there is a competent PM and cabinet, unlike this current version. I know some people are drawn to the whole diversity thing but that should never be the basis of building a management group for 2 trillion dollars of public assets. So I am left with the safe choice, the Conservatives, even though I agree with many who think Sheer is a weenie, they will at least be the best stewards of our public funds while at the same making life more affordable for everyone. I'm not scared away by all the ridiculous notions that they are somehow going to take all your human rights away, this is just a common scare tactic the left has to use because they can't compete on an economic level with them. 

[blue_gold_84]

8 minutes ago, kelownabomberfan said:

Mikhail Gorbachev was kindly.  Oh my goodness.

Yes, it's been fun watching the propaganda pouring out here in favor of Communism.  What a sad testament to our educational system.

Solid rebuttal, as per usual. Nary an intelligent comment in sight.

Speaking of education, throwing around idiotic buzzwords like fake news and propaganda really speaks to how well you're educated. How about make a valid point for a change? Although, I'm probably setting the bar too high for someone who calls others "lib lovers" and "SJWs" when he can't come up with a rational or valid counterpoint whatsoever. How old are you, anyway?

[pigseye]

35 minutes ago, kelownabomberfan said:

Mikhail Gorbachev was kindly.  Oh my goodness.

He was so nice he decided Russia should become a Democracy. 😉

[Zontar]

A system,s theory dedicated to permanent world revolution,  destruction of private  wealth and property the removal of basic human rights, the deliberate undunderming and removal of the bedrocks of society like family, religion turns out badly in practice, who knew?

[Wideleft]

5 minutes ago, Zontar said:

A system,s theory dedicated to permanent world revolution,  destruction of private  wealth and property the removal of basic human rights, the deliberate undunderming and removal of the bedrocks of society like family, religion turns out badly in practice, who knew?

A global system of unfettered capitalism will accomplish the same things.

[pigseye]

1 minute ago, Wideleft said:

A global system of unfettered capitalism will accomplish the same things.

Post of the year!

 

[rebusrankin]

3 hours ago, Throw Long Bannatyne said:

Many people seem to be calling for Trudeau's head so I don't see your point, it's a free society, people are free to express their opinions even if they don't match your own.

My point was that Trudeau hasn't stepped down yet, nor has he faced the level of scrutiny and criticism that a politician on the right would face for any of the actions I mentioned, let alone getting away with all of them. I never said anything about freedom of expression but thanks for bringing that up.

[rebusrankin]

3 hours ago, JCon said:

Everyone is calling out JT on all those things, so what's your point? Those have literally been at the top of the news cycle for the past year. 

Has he really received the same treatment that Harper got for any of his mistakes or Duffy? I don't think he has. My point was that he gets preferential treatment from the media and that he is a hypocrite.

[Zontar]

20 minutes ago, Wideleft said:

A global system of unfettered capitalism will accomplish the same things.

Except there is plenty of fetters and  still allows for personal freedom and human rights.

[Wideleft]

2 hours ago, AB BomberFan said:

Quite different to be honest. Conservatives and the CPC isn't running an election talking about the days of chretien or Martin, that's something only the liberals do. They cant run on accomplishments so instead try to fear monger, the same thing they accuse conservatives of. I'm not a very political person but our PM has honestly become Zoolander, so embarrassing. 

The CPC won't run against Chretien or Martin's legacy because then they'd have to complain about budget surpluses

[Wideleft]

1 minute ago, Zontar said:

Except there is plenty of fetters and  still allows for personal freedom and human rights.

Less and less fetters every day.