Sign before Drafting?

[BigBlue]

Would you sign our first-round pick before drafting him?

If we sign him first we won't lose him to the NFL and we won't have the problems that the Riders had with their first pick last year. Such a signing would require in all likelihood a six-figure salary escalating each year over 3 years, and of course, a lucrative signing bonus.

On the other hand I am sure Walters is entertaining a trade for the first overall pick… Perhaps he will go all out for the Grey cup this year.

By the way who would you see as our top 3 candidates for that first overall pick? Are you thinking of anyone else for our second  first rounder or is that the place to make a trade? And who or what would you want in a trade?

[Noeller]

Walters isn't trading the 1st overall pick unless Bo Levi Mitchell is coming back....and even then........the second pick (5th? 6th?) is definitely possible...

[Ripper]

1 hour ago, Noeller said:

Walters isn't trading the 1st overall pick unless Bo Levi Mitchell is coming back....and even then........the second pick (5th? 6th?) is definitely possible...

Not to derail thread, but you wouldn't trade the first overall pick for Mitchell? Your crazy man, he'd be a steal if that's all you had to give up

[17to85]

42 minutes ago, Ripper said:

Not to derail thread, but you wouldn't trade the first overall pick for Mitchell? Your crazy man, he'd be a steal if that's all you had to give up

reading is your friend, he said UNLESS

[sweep the leg]

56 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

reading is your friend, he said UNLESS

And followed that up with "and even then...".

[Noeller]

14 minutes ago, sweep the leg said:

And followed that up with "and even then...".

Yeah, this is where I shoulda been clearer....here's how it should have read:

 

"I personally think the only way we'd trade the 1st overall is if BLM was coming back, and even then I'd think about it"......but that's probably not accurate. Ripper is right...BLM would cost a lot more than that, and that's fair.

[wbbfan]

3 hours ago, BigBlue said:

Would you sign our first-round pick before drafting him?

If we sign him first we won't lose him to the NFL and we won't have the problems that the Riders had with their first pick last year. Such a signing would require in all likelihood a six-figure salary escalating each year over 3 years, and of course, a lucrative signing bonus.

On the other hand I am sure Walters is entertaining a trade for the first overall pick… Perhaps he will go all out for the Grey cup this year.

By the way who would you see as our top 3 candidates for that first overall pick? Are you thinking of anyone else for our second  first rounder or is that the place to make a trade? And who or what would you want in a trade?

no idea if you can or not. But if you can i certainly would. any thing to avoid what the riders did last year. 

Our top 3 candidates will depend heavily on nfl offers, and how the work outs go. top 3 talent will probably be 3 different guys from top 3 available. 

[17to85]

1 hour ago, sweep the leg said:

And followed that up with "and even then...".

well I always disregard that when Noeller says it, he's prone to exaggerating. 

[Ripper]

3 hours ago, 17to85 said:

reading is your friend, he said UNLESS

Yes it is your friend. He said "and even then"

edit. I should have read further, others had already responded

Edited February 3, 2017 by Ripper

[Noeller]

1 hour ago, 17to85 said:

well I always disregard that when Noeller says it, he's prone to exaggerating. 

Not once, not ever.......

[Eternal optimist]

Even if we do have the option of signing a 1st-round pick before drafting them (I have no idea if we do) - I still wouldn't do it.

Assuming the best-case scenario and you do sign him before drafting and he ends up being way better than projected (i.e. the next Tom Brady/Julio Jones or whatever)... he'll definitely be on somebody's radar down south. NFL teams will be calling with the enticement of better pay, better recognition and more likely than not, the chance to for that player to chase their dream of playing in the NFL (assuming they're from the U.S.). If you keep him wrapped up under his CFL salary, it's a lose-lose situation for both parties:

- The player ends up stuck playing below his potential/skill level, and is likely unhappy doing so.
- The team ends up with an unmotivated player that is likely a earning a big paycheck for a rookie.

This lose-lose situation is the same reason why CFL teams often release players under contract that have an opportunity to make it to the NFL (examples include Weston Dressler with the Riders a few years ago, most recently  the Bombers released Quincy McDuffie so he can attempt to tryout for the Cowboys). It's generally considered an act of good faith by the CFL team and often if the player doesn't make cuts, they'll return to the team that released them in the first place.

Also I'd definitely trade all our 2017 picks for BLM - even that would still be a steal.

[BigBlue]

9 hours ago, Eternal optimist said:

Even if we do have the option of signing a 1st-round pick before drafting them (I have no idea if we do) - I still wouldn't do it.

Assuming the best-case scenario and you do sign him before drafting and he ends up being way better than projected (i.e. the next Tom Brady/Julio Jones or whatever)... he'll definitely be on somebody's radar down south. NFL teams will be calling with the enticement of better pay, better recognition and more likely than not, the chance to for that player to chase their dream of playing in the NFL (assuming they're from the U.S.). If you keep him wrapped up under his CFL salary, it's a lose-lose situation for both parties:

- The player ends up stuck playing below his potential/skill level, and is likely unhappy doing so.
- The team ends up with an unmotivated player that is likely a earning a big paycheck for a rookie.

This lose-lose situation is the same reason why CFL teams often release players under contract that have an opportunity to make it to the NFL (examples include Weston Dressler with the Riders a few years ago, most recently  the Bombers released Quincy McDuffie so he can attempt to tryout for the Cowboys). It's generally considered an act of good faith by the CFL team and often if the player doesn't make cuts, they'll return to the team that released them in the first place.

Also I'd definitely trade all our 2017 picks for BLM - even that would still be a steal.

So you are saying that your first overall pick isincapable of deciding what he really wants to do?

 

[Eternal optimist]

11 hours ago, BigBlue said:

So you are saying that your first overall pick isincapable of deciding what he really wants to do?

 

Not quite, I just think signing an unproven player before they've even seen practice/training camp seems like a bit of a gamble. Sometimes players that break into the CFL get calls from down south once the NFL season starts to heat up, and I think many young players would think it is better to play somewhere than not be playing at all.It's unfortunate that the NFL season starts midway through the CFL season since this causes the situation I described above.

[instigater]

11 minutes ago, Eternal optimist said:

Not quite, I just think signing an unproven player before they've even seen practice/training camp seems like a bit of a gamble. Sometimes players that break into the CFL get calls from down south once the NFL season starts to heat up, and I think many young players would think it is better to play somewhere than not be playing at all.It's unfortunate that the NFL season starts midway through the CFL season since this causes the situation I described above.

That is why you sign him. That means he obviously doesn't want to try the NFL right away.  Way riskier to draft and hope he signs. Henoc played for the bombers right away.  Josiah St. John held out because they didn't agree to the contract number. Andy Mulamba still hasn't played for the Bombers. Easy concept. Plus you don't attend camp or practice without a contract.

Edited February 9, 2017 by instigater

[WBBFanWest]

1 hour ago, Eternal optimist said:

Not quite, I just think signing an unproven player before they've even seen practice/training camp seems like a bit of a gamble. Sometimes players that break into the CFL get calls from down south once the NFL season starts to heat up, and I think many young players would think it is better to play somewhere than not be playing at all.It's unfortunate that the NFL season starts midway through the CFL season since this causes the situation I described above.

I'm sorry but your argument makes absolutely no sense.  If we are drafting someone 1st overall, it's because he's our first choice.  We want him, period.  So that being the case, if you can sign him to a contract before officially drafting him, you've secured the guy that you really want.  Now, you've eliminated all the drama.  Also, if you're seeing a lot of resistance, it gives you the opportunity to reassess and maybe move on to your #2 choice.  I really can't see any reason that you wouldn't sign them if you could.

By the way, how exactly are you thinking you'll see them in a training camp without having them under contract?  We ain't the Riders.

Edited February 9, 2017 by WBBFanWest

[Eternal optimist]

Fair points - sorry for the confusion I guess I was using the wrong terminology, you're both definitely right regarding contracts and training camp. I'm unfamiliar with the rules regarding the 'mini-camps' that the CFL teams hold down south, are they required to be signed to a contract to attend those as well?

I guess the other thing I'm finding confusing is if we could sign a player before drafting them, why have the draft at all in the first place? Wouldn't that defeat the whole purpose of the draft? That said, if this is purely hypothetical, then I'd have to agree with others that you'd sign the player before drafting them, especially with the 1st overall.

[WBBFanWest]

7 minutes ago, Eternal optimist said:

Fair points - sorry for the confusion I guess I was using the wrong terminology, you're both definitely right regarding contracts and training camp. I'm unfamiliar with the rules regarding the 'mini-camps' that the CFL teams hold down south, are they required to be signed to a contract to attend those as well?

I guess the other thing I'm finding confusing is if we could sign a player before drafting them, why have the draft at all in the first place? Wouldn't that defeat the whole purpose of the draft? That said, if this is purely hypothetical, then I'd have to agree with others that you'd sign the player before drafting them, especially with the 1st overall.

You can only draft the 1st overall, because he's the only "for sure" draft pick. 

[ddanger]

This debate rages every year at draft time. The CFL puts on an evaluation camp for draft-eligible players and the teams are able to evaluate and interview. I believe that is where they assess a player's willingness to play in the CFL or if they are fielding offers from NFL teams. It's a big gamble for sure, but I have faith that Walters and company will have done all required due diligence.

I also don't believe they can sign a player before drafting him.

And I wouldn't trade the first overall for BLM, but I can understand the argument.

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