Space is the Place

[Atomic]

I know I'm not the only one who likes to read about new planet discoveries and other Space intrigue.  We have a new candidate for life-supporting planets, and like all the others, it's the "best one yet."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/exoplanet-alien-life-search-for-found-habitable-zone-new-earth-20-signs-cetus-sea-monster-a7691576.html

Pretty exciting, really.

[The Unknown Poster]

Very exciting.  But if a planet older than earth that would have undergone a similar development to earth has life, one has to wonder at what stage of advancement would it be?  If its simple microbes, as exciting as it is, its not the earth-shattering discovery some want.  if its rudimentary intelligent life, why did it develop so slowly (and what does that say for evolution).  If its intelligent life, is it looking back at us?

I want to see humans on Mars and the revelation of life existing on other planets (in whatever form) before I die.

[FrostyWinnipeg]

This lil moon was in the news this week.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/enceladus-what-is-it-saturn-moon-need-to-know-alien-life-hydrogen-nasa-announcement-a7682846.html

[Atomic]

20 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Very exciting.  But if a planet older than earth that would have undergone a similar development to earth has life, one has to wonder at what stage of advancement would it be?  If its simple microbes, as exciting as it is, its not the earth-shattering discovery some want.  if its rudimentary intelligent life, why did it develop so slowly (and what does that say for evolution).  If its intelligent life, is it looking back at us?

I want to see humans on Mars and the revelation of life existing on other planets (in whatever form) before I die.

I believe we will see both.  I hope for the same.  Unless we all kill each other, nuclear winter, etc.  If intelligent life really was discovered.... woah.  I can't even begin to comprehend the ramifications of that.

6 minutes ago, FrostyWinnipeg said:

This lil moon was in the news this week.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/enceladus-what-is-it-saturn-moon-need-to-know-alien-life-hydrogen-nasa-announcement-a7682846.html

This one is really interesting too.  It shows how little we really know about the astronomical bodies that are relatively close to us.  Enceladus was basically an afterthought.  So that makes me wonder about our discoveries of planets light-years away.  How much do we really know?

[The Unknown Poster]

I used to believe without any doubt that only arrogance could have us believe we're the only intelligence life in the universe.  But there is always that possibility that the conditions for higher life all came together only here.  I suppose, and Im not math expert, that the odds of that happening only once are pretty low.

But if you accept the possibility that life arrived her on meteors at the right time in the early earth to lead to microbial development...AND that early life avoided catastrophes that would end...PLUS the earth cooled and had the right atmosphere and temperatures and water etc, you still need life as it evolves to avoid extinction.  For example, if a meteor never kills off most of the dinosaurs, we probably arent here right now (or maybe we're lizards).  Then once mammals develop to a certain point, what gives them that extra boost to language and organization?  Was it eating meat as some suggest?  What if that doesnt happen?

So many things went right.  BUT...with so many planets out there, how can it not happen again?

And then ofcourse, the evidence of possible microbial life on Mars tells us that if life happened on two planets in the same system then the universe is probably teeming with life.  Unless ofcourse, life began only on Mars and came to earth on rocks.  But still...

Since the Earth is young and we as a species are young, if there is intelligence life out there, where are they?

[FrostyWinnipeg]

11 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Since the Earth is young and we as a species are young, if there is intelligence life out there, where are they?

Killed themselves off as 'intelligent life' is doomed to do or they killed their planet off by polluting it or the machines they created killed most of them off and the survivors are searching for a new home...a fabled and long-lost colony called Earth.

[Rich]

20 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

I used to believe without any doubt that only arrogance could have us believe we're the only intelligence life in the universe.  But there is always that possibility that the conditions for higher life all came together only here.  I suppose, and Im not math expert, that the odds of that happening only once are pretty low.

But if you accept the possibility that life arrived her on meteors at the right time in the early earth to lead to microbial development...AND that early life avoided catastrophes that would end...PLUS the earth cooled and had the right atmosphere and temperatures and water etc, you still need life as it evolves to avoid extinction.  For example, if a meteor never kills off most of the dinosaurs, we probably arent here right now (or maybe we're lizards).  Then once mammals develop to a certain point, what gives them that extra boost to language and organization?  Was it eating meat as some suggest?  What if that doesnt happen?

So many things went right.  BUT...with so many planets out there, how can it not happen again?

And then ofcourse, the evidence of possible microbial life on Mars tells us that if life happened on two planets in the same system then the universe is probably teeming with life.  Unless ofcourse, life began only on Mars and came to earth on rocks.  But still...

Since the Earth is young and we as a species are young, if there is intelligence life out there, where are they?

There are two reasons on why we may never see other intelligent life:

1.       The huge distances between solar systems and galaxies.  We may never discover a technology similar to “warp” or “light speed” that allows us to travel the distances required to go to another planet, or to create a telescope powerful enough to see that level of detail.  At this point in our development, we haven’t even sent an unmanned probe to go investigate another solar system.

Put that in perspective, Voyager 2, which was launched in 1977 is the furthest man made object away from the Earth (at least according to Wikipedia).   It is .002 light years away from the sun.  The next closest star is 4.2 light years away.
 

2.       Humans have only been around for a very very very short time on this planet.  It is entirely possible that we (and species like us) go extinct in such a short time relative to the universe that the chances of coming across a planet while a species like us is alive is very low.

[FrostyWinnipeg]

Just now, Rich said:

There are two reasons on why we may never see other intelligent life:

1.       The huge distances between solar systems and galaxies.  We may never discover a technology similar to “warp” or “light speed” that allows us to travel the distances required to go to another planet, or to create a telescope powerful enough to see that level of detail.  At this point in our development, we haven’t even send an unmanned probe to go investigate another solar system.

Put that in perspective, Voyager 2, which was launched in 1977 is the furthest man made object away from the Earth (at least according to Wikipedia).   It is .002 light years away from the sun.  The next closest star is 4.2 light years away.
 

2.       Humans have only been around for a very very very short time on this planet.  It is entirely possible that we (and species like us) go extinct in such a short time relative to the universe that the chances of coming across a planet while a species like us is alive is very low.

True dat, no FTL, no neighbours in anyone's lifetime.

[The Unknown Poster]

Good points.  I'd give more credence to point 2.  And that advanced civilizations could have passed by us ages ago.  The over-lapping civilization is an important thing.

On point 1, when you consider the advancement in technology of the last 50 years, and extrapolate out a species that might have a billion year head start on us...its hard to imagine hitting a technology wall where nothing can get smaller, faster, better.

[Taynted_Fayth]

I think we'd need to, or will invent proper cryogenic freezing before we invent any kind of lightspeed or warp drives.  If we could suspend ourselves from aging,  then travelling for hundreds of years in deep space could become possible,  but no one around would be alive to witness or care by the time they landed.  

Unfortunately for that, it's currently illegal to freeze someone until they are pronounced legally dead.  such restrictions really hamper forward progress in that field.  

[SpeedFlex27]

25 minutes ago, Taynted_Fayth said:

I think we'd need to, or will invent proper cryogenic freezing before we invent any kind of lightspeed or warp drives.  If we could suspend ourselves from aging,  then travelling for hundreds of years in deep space could become possible,  but no one around would be alive to witness or care by the time they landed.  

Unfortunately for that, it's currently illegal to freeze someone until they are pronounced legally dead.  such restrictions really hamper forward progress in that field.  

I don't want to wake up in 500 or a thousand years. The world we know won't exist. Imagine if a Viking from 1 AD was brought back to life. He would be absolutely terrified. That would be anyone cryogenically frozen. The adaptation period once awakened could prove to be too much & anyone in that situation might go insane. Besides, the Riders would still be looking for Grey Cup win #5.

Edited April 19, 2017 by SpeedFlex27

[FrostyWinnipeg]

Just now, SpeedFlex27 said:

Imagine if a Viking from 1 AD was brought back to life. He would be absolutely terrified.

He might like the Vikings tv show though.

[SpeedFlex27]

1 minute ago, FrostyWinnipeg said:

He might like the Vikings tv show though.

He might say they're a bunch of ......!

 

[Taynted_Fayth]

9 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

I don't want to wake up in 500 or a thousand years. The world we know won't exist. Imagine if a Viking from 1 AD was brought back to life. He would be absolutely terrified. That would be anyone cryogenically frozen. The adaptation period once awakened could prove to be too much & anyone in that situation might go insane. Besides, the Riders would still be looking for Grey Cup win #5.

It's definitely not for everyone, but I'm sure there would be a long list of people willing to sign up on a venture that would allow them to explore a new world. That is if all was safe with the freezing procedure - my biggest concern at this point would be brain damage from the lack of oxygen during the hibernation period. 

It could be terrifying at first, but I think those that volunteered for it would be willing and ready to accept, the world they once knew is no more,  and they are no longer in Kansas. It's not like it would be only 1 person going either.  It would surely be a colonization mission and not being alone in a new place generally takes the edge off a bit

[SpeedFlex27]

The trouble with things like this is the companies that would do this. Chances are, they won't be around in 300  years so what happens to the volunteers cryogenically frozen when companies cease to exist? Would they be forgotten & left to die as systems stop functioning over the years? We weren't born to live a thousand years. I don't believe in messing with things like this. I'm one person who'd pass.

 

 

 

[FrostyWinnipeg]

It's possible. There are risks tho.

[johnzo]

Great thread.

This news is a year stale at this point, but here's another semi-recent mindblowing space thing: scientists using the Hubble have found GN-z11, the most distant thing we've ever observed. 

It's 32 billion light-years from Earth. 

When we look at it, we're seeing it as it was just 400 million years after the Big Bang.  I know this is the way space and lightspeed work, but it's still freaky to me to think that observing distant objects is a form of time travel.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GN-z11

[Mark F]

7 hours ago, FrostyWinnipeg said:

This lil moon was in the news this week.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/enceladus-what-is-it-saturn-moon-need-to-know-alien-life-hydrogen-nasa-announcement-a7682846.html

 remarkable. above freezing water on a moon of Saturn.

There are some really good programs about Enceladus on Nasa channel.

Edited April 20, 2017 by Mark F

[The Unknown Poster]

Regarding Cryogenics, I was fascinated by this as a kid and always wanted to be frozen.  To me, it was probably not going to work but its not like it'd be waiting the 500 years.  Close your eyes one moment in 2050, open them the next in 2550.  And if there actually was a company that stuck around that whole time or government oversight, its not like you'd wake up at Portage & Main 500 years in the future.  You'd awaken in a facility where your exposure to the changes in technology etc could be spoon fed to you.

Another option Im intrigued about is the ability to download the essence of ones mind into a computer that would be able to match the speed and complexity of the brain providing you with the sense of consciousness,  Once they get there, you live forever...or until someone hits CTRL ALT DELETE.

[Atomic]

So much can change when you are talking about hundreds of years.  There could be a nuclear war while you're frozen.  Then you get thawed out 50 years later, just long enough to see your wife and kid getting unfrozen across the room.  A man enters and kills your wife and steals your baby.  Before you can do anything you're re-frozen.  Later you wake up again.  It's an apocalyptic nuclear wasteland, but humanity is beginning to re-form society.  You go looking for your kidnapped son, but learn that things aren't quite as easy as they were when you were frozen...

[bearpants]

31 minutes ago, Atomic said:

So much can change when you are talking about hundreds of years.  There could be a nuclear war while you're frozen.  Then you get thawed out 50 years later, just long enough to see your wife and kid getting unfrozen across the room.  A man enters and kills your wife and steals your baby.  Before you can do anything you're re-frozen.  Later you wake up again.  It's an apocalyptic nuclear wasteland, but humanity is beginning to re-form society.  You go looking for your kidnapped son, but learn that things aren't quite as easy as they were when you were frozen...

How's the screenplay coming along? 

[FrostyWinnipeg]

2 hours ago, Atomic said:

So much can change when you are talking about hundreds of years.  There could be a nuclear war while you're frozen.  Then you get thawed out 50 years later, just long enough to see your wife and kid getting unfrozen across the room.  A man enters and kills your wife and steals your baby.  Before you can do anything you're re-frozen.  Later you wake up again.  It's an apocalyptic nuclear wasteland, but humanity is beginning to re-form society.  You go looking for your kidnapped son, but learn that things aren't quite as easy as they were when you were frozen...

Where is that from?

[Taynted_Fayth]

3 hours ago, Atomic said:

So much can change when you are talking about hundreds of years.  There could be a nuclear war while you're frozen.  Then you get thawed out 50 years later, just long enough to see your wife and kid getting unfrozen across the room.  A man enters and kills your wife and steals your baby.  Before you can do anything you're re-frozen.  Later you wake up again.  It's an apocalyptic nuclear wasteland, but humanity is beginning to re-form society.  You go looking for your kidnapped son, but learn that things aren't quite as easy as they were when you were frozen...

as long as i didn't wake up to seeing young sean connery's running around like this

I could totally live with an apocalyptic nuclear wasteland

[Taynted_Fayth]

so let's say man perfected the art of cryogenics and re-animation,  the next hurdle for space travel would be ship fuel and maintenance. I'm sure robots could handle the load for a while but at some point,  someone(s) would need to wake up and do checks. 

 

man thinking about all the things needed to travel through space, i think we're hooped.  not until a friendly race of aliens comes to us and offers us a free ride will this ever be a reality

Edited April 20, 2017 by Taynted_Fayth

[Rich]

Just now, Taynted_Fayth said:

so let's say man perfected the art of cryogenics and re-animation,  the next hurdle for space travel would be ship fuel and maintenance. I'm sure robots could handle the load for a while but at some point,  someone(s) would need to wake up and do checks. 

 

man thinking about all the things needed to travel through space, i think we're hooped.  not until a friend race of aliens comes to us and offers us a free ride will this ever be a reality

If aliens were able to figure out how to do it, why wouldn't we be able to?