The Health Thread

[The Unknown Poster]

By the way, for an update.  three days on the LCHF program and Im experiencing "Keto Flu" today.  Woke up with a horrendous headache, very sleepy/foggy and feeling bleh.  Feeling better as the day has progressed.  I used to be a scale junkie (ie. weighing myself every day and celebrating the minor downs and depressing about the minor ups) so Im trying not to.  Weight in is Monday. 

[Noeller]

47 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

By the way, for an update.  three days on the LCHF program and Im experiencing "Keto Flu" today.  Woke up with a horrendous headache, very sleepy/foggy and feeling bleh.  Feeling better as the day has progressed.  I used to be a scale junkie (ie. weighing myself every day and celebrating the minor downs and depressing about the minor ups) so Im trying not to.  Weight in is Monday. 

I once did Herbal Magic as a promotional gimmick through my work, and I dropped 30lbs with them (but gained it all back after I stopped taking the pills) and while I did enjoy my time on the program, one of the problems was that they condition you to the scale. You weigh in every day for the first 3 months, then the next 9, I weighed in once a week. They condition you to celebrate the scale number....I got SO mentally conditioned to it, it still bothers me when I'm on a program. I get SO upset by a gain of 0.2 or something silly like that....it's brutal.

[The Unknown Poster]

I know two people that did Herbal Magic and said it absolutely worked (one guy I knew when he was doing it and he was VERY heavy, like 400lbs and the wight just dropped off him).  Both gained some or all of it back after leaving the program.

 

[Noeller]

5 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

I know two people that did Herbal Magic and said it absolutely worked (one guy I knew when he was doing it and he was VERY heavy, like 400lbs and the wight just dropped off him).  Both gained some or all of it back after leaving the program.

 

It's partly the pills, and it's partly the lack of accountability. They make you come in there every day to get checked on. They'll phone you if you don't come for your weigh in. A big part of my success was the accountability, for sure. Without that, you lose your focus and it's really easy to gain it all back.

[tacklewasher]

1 hour ago, The Unknown Poster said:

I think there is a tinge of anti-low carb in your posts which results in a couple of us saying "yeah....but".

 

Not so much anti-low-carb as I read too many posts (on MFP) that tout low-carb as something special, and it isn't.  Many claim to be able to eat as much as they want, low carb and still lose weight. It doesn't work that way. If it works as a way of eating (and it certainly does for many) than that is great. But I can't not eat carbs but can still lose weight.

[tacklewasher]

1 hour ago, Logan007 said:

I'm not talking about just losing weight though, I'm talking about overall health.

Not convinced there is any health benefits to eating this way. And it just seems overly restrictive to me. But to each their own.

[Atomic]

1 minute ago, tacklewasher said:

Not so much anti-low-carb as I read too many posts (on MFP) that tout low-carb as something special, and it isn't.  Many claim to be able to eat as much as they want, low carb and still lose weight. It doesn't work that way. If it works as a way of eating (and it certainly does for many) than that is great. But I can't not eat carbs but can still lose weight.

You're missing part of the puzzle.

"Eat as much as they want" is the important part.  Fat and protein are far more satiating than carbs.  Therefore "as much as I want" on a low-carb diet is generally a lot less than what someone eating carbs would consume.

[The Unknown Poster]

As Atomic said, the "idea" on LCHF is that people dont have to count calories because they will naturally eat less calories because they are fuller and not hungry.

Carbs trigger increased insulin levels and insulin is the fat storage hormone.  lower carbs = lower insulin levels.  This is why Type 2 Diabetics can "cure" themselves on low carb plans. And why often diabetics gain weight when they have to begin taking insulin.  Thats the basic science of it.

I dont want to seem like im touting it...its just the one im most interested in right now.  But it seems less restrictive to me because when I've done low fat/calorie reduced, I have to deny myself things I like.  I still do on this but I feel better because I can have butter and eggs and beef and I feel like Im not missing out on good stuff.  As much as I love everything Italian, a juicy steak will take care of the pizza craving (and the egg crust pizza I made this week was tremendous).

[tacklewasher]

50 minutes ago, Atomic said:

You're missing part of the puzzle.

"Eat as much as they want" is the important part.  Fat and protein are far more satiating than carbs.  Therefore "as much as I want" on a low-carb diet is generally a lot less than what someone eating carbs would consume.

That is not universally true. Some folks find carbs more satiating.

The argument about this goes on for pages on MFP. Again, if it works for you, great. But there is nothing really special about a low carb diet.  It you find it more satiating, than great, but realize that others don't.

[tacklewasher]

32 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

As Atomic said, the "idea" on LCHF is that people dont have to count calories because they will naturally eat less calories because they are fuller and not hungry.

Carbs trigger increased insulin levels and insulin is the fat storage hormone.  lower carbs = lower insulin levels.  This is why Type 2 Diabetics can "cure" themselves on low carb plans. And why often diabetics gain weight when they have to begin taking insulin.  Thats the basic science of it.

I dont want to seem like im touting it...its just the one im most interested in right now.  But it seems less restrictive to me because when I've done low fat/calorie reduced, I have to deny myself things I like.  I still do on this but I feel better because I can have butter and eggs and beef and I feel like Im not missing out on good stuff.  As much as I love everything Italian, a juicy steak will take care of the pizza craving (and the egg crust pizza I made this week was tremendous).

Again, the argument on the insulin response goes on for pages. I just don't think the effect is as great as some think.

See, I just don't think I could eat like that for the rest of my life, so as a "diet" it's of no use to me. I enjoy pizza. I just don't have it as often as I used to or as much as I used to, but it's still part of my overall food choice. Only thing I don't have any more is pop. I just know how much I can have and enjoy what I want.

For me, any sort of restriction is too difficult and I'd rather just count calories.

[Atomic]

3 minutes ago, tacklewasher said:

That is not universally true. Some folks find carbs more satiating.

The argument about this goes on for pages on MFP. Again, if it works for you, great. But there is nothing really special about a low carb diet.  It you find it more satiating, than great, but realize that others don't.

The argument goes on for pages but you're damn sure your side is correct

[tacklewasher]

1 minute ago, Atomic said:

The argument goes on for pages but you're damn sure your side is correct

Am I sure some find carbs more satiating? unless I'm going to call posters liars, than yes I do.

And, as I said in my first post, diet talk can be as dangerous as religion or politics. It appears I've ruffled feathers with my talk of moderation, so I'm done.

[Atomic]

1 minute ago, tacklewasher said:

Am I sure some find carbs more satiating? unless I'm going to call posters liars, than yes I do.

And, as I said in my first post, diet talk can be as dangerous as religion or politics. It appears I've ruffled feathers with my talk of moderation, so I'm done.

The reason diet talk is so contentious is because everyone is affected differently.  And then as soon as someone loses some weight they believe they're an authority because they saw it work for them.  You could have said that counting calories worked well for you and left it at that but you decided to attack the methods that other people choose to adopt.  And so this happens.

[The Unknown Poster]

@tacklewasher Its not that you've ruffled feathers, its that you've thrown cold water on a very widely accepted plan.  As I've said, a month from now I might tell you you were 100% right and its a terrible plan!  But I am very intrigued by the science behind it.

I also agree that while some very capable people can adjust their eating for a lifetime, I doubt I can.  And thats why I've failed at times in the past.  But so far, what I can eat on LCHF is tastier and more filling then when I've got low fat/low calorie.  My goal is to get to a goal where I can go from very low carb to "moderate carb" and thus, enjoy slamming down a pizza or shutting down Olive Garden without it being a life changing event.

Everyone's successes are commendable.  Hope you'll keep posting.

[Noeller]

7 minutes ago, Atomic said:

The reason diet talk is so contentious is because everyone is affected differently.  And then as soon as someone loses some weight they believe they're an authority because they saw it work for them.  You could have said that counting calories worked well for you and left it at that but you decided to attack the methods that other people choose to adopt.  And so this happens.

There's a lotta truth in here. Best thing we can all do is keep things positive. I think we've all seen enough negativity in our life...on a personal weight loss journey, it's FAR more advantageous to keep things positive and upbeat. Everyone find their own path, don't knock someone else's, and celebrate everyone's successes....

[Logan007]

On 5/5/2017 at 1:54 PM, tacklewasher said:

Not convinced there is any health benefits to eating this way. And it just seems overly restrictive to me. But to each their own.

Umm... wow.

Ok, well for one, there's no fiber in white flour compared to whole wheat.  White flour is basically a simple carb as it's been refined and is one of the  causes of diabetes as it spikes your blood sugar.  It basically acts like sugar once your body tries to digest it.  Don't believe me, ask any doctor if a diabetic should eat white flour.

When you're eating simple carbs, you're basically spiking your blood sugar (as I said), which can cause a crash not long after you eat them.  Ever wonder why you're tired about a half an hour to an hour after eating white pasta?  Eating like that can lead to serious health issues.  Just because you're not feeling it now, doesn't mean you won't feel it down the road.

[The Unknown Poster]

Week One Results (I used May 1st as my start date but didnt really start eating LCHF until Wednesday): down 9.3 lbs. 

Not feeling hungry.  I bought a BBQ on Saturday (we had moved last fall and tossed out the old one) and celebrated the 3 hours it took me to put it together by cooking a huge steak I ordered from Myfarmersmarket.com (grass fed, no drugs).  Fantastic.  That website is a great resource for organic produce and other groceries.  I ordered eggs and Steak (big steaks for $9.99 each).  They deliver.

My friend who is doing this with me, she is mid 30's and over 300, she was less strict than me and lost 2 lbs.  She plans to be more strict beginning today.

My gf who is a Yoga and Thai Massage instructor (Kayfabe Yoga) has been working on me and my flexibility and range of motion has improved a lot which is making exercise feel better because my knees arent killing me as much.  Adding a nice long walk most days in the evening and find Im tired and having better sleep.  Waking up fresher in the morning.

One week down.  How many more to go?  We'll see...

[Mark H.]

8 hours ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Week One Results (I used May 1st as my start date but didnt really start eating LCHF until Wednesday): down 9.3 lbs. 

Not feeling hungry.  I bought a BBQ on Saturday (we had moved last fall and tossed out the old one) and celebrated the 3 hours it took me to put it together by cooking a huge steak I ordered from Myfarmersmarket.com (grass fed, no drugs).  Fantastic.  That website is a great resource for organic produce and other groceries.  I ordered eggs and Steak (big steaks for $9.99 each).  They deliver.

It takes 2 - 3 years for a grass fed beef cow to reach market weight vs. 18 months in a feedlot.  Also, you need about 15 - 20 acres of pasture to feed one cow for one year, 20 - 30 acres if it's a cow - calf pair.  There's a reason why cows are raised in feed lots - it's cheaper and more efficient.

You mostly all know I'm a Hutterite.  We raise about 10 beef cattle per year for our own use.  They're on pasture with one feeding of barley or oats per day and hay in the winter, plus a mineral supplement. We typically buy newly weaned calves (6 - 8 months old) and feed them for about another 1.5 to 2 years. 

We know farmers who raise grass fed beef on a larger scale and have a great deal of respect for them - it's a healthy and sustainable way to raise food, but it is very expensive. Delivering a large grass fed steak to your door for $9.99 is highly unlikely, and they would tell you that too.  

[Fraser]

I couldn't  imagine  cutting  carbs. I  tried  it once in an effort to make weight  for boxing  and I  was useless  on the heavy bag and a liability  in the ring.

I try to maintain a ratio  of 50-30-20 carbs proteins  fats. An emphasis  on clean, whole foods (everyone knows  the difference between brown rice and a french fry)  and 3 meals a day with snacks (usually fruit)  in between  and something  after  a workout. 

Also really  big  on intermittent  fasting.  Take a day where you will only be doing cardio and fast  from  dinner the night before  til dinner that night.

Also think  you  need to listen  to your body. If you are hydrated  and not  eating  out of bordom eat when you are hungry. I find my appetite fluxuates  greatly  with  my effort level, as it should. 

[The Unknown Poster]

14 hours ago, Mark H. said:

It takes 2 - 3 years for a grass fed beef cow to reach market weight vs. 18 months in a feedlot.  Also, you need about 15 - 20 acres of pasture to feed one cow for one year, 20 - 30 acres if it's a cow - calf pair.  There's a reason why cows are raised in feed lots - it's cheaper and more efficient.

You mostly all know I'm a Hutterite.  We raise about 10 beef cattle per year for our own use.  They're on pasture with one feeding of barley or oats per day and hay in the winter, plus a mineral supplement. We typically buy newly weaned calves (6 - 8 months old) and feed them for about another 1.5 to 2 years. 

We know farmers who raise grass fed beef on a larger scale and have a great deal of respect for them - it's a healthy and sustainable way to raise food, but it is very expensive. Delivering a large grass fed steak to your door for $9.99 is highly unlikely, and they would tell you that too.  

So this farm is lying?  isnt that illegal?

This is what I ordered:

https://www.myfarmersmarket.com/beef/2692/sirloin-steak-grass-fed-beef-15-oz-approx.html

Its now $12.55 but I double checked my order and it was $9.95 when I ordered last friday.  Must have got a deal.  The link includes a description of the farm (Spring Creek Farm).  So if you're telling me this is impossible, is there a regulatory body to talk to?

Edited May 9, 2017 by The Unknown Poster

[sweep the leg]

On 2017-05-04 at 0:39 PM, voodoochylde said:

 

I'm also one who feels ketosis and ketogenic diets in general aren't sustainable. That's just me though and I'll never advocate against something that works for an individual .. listen to your body and do what feels right .. I just believe that carbs aren't evil .. they are necessary .. especially when you are pushing yourself hard.  It's all the sugar that's in a standard North American diet that kills people. Eliminate processed food in your day to day and I guarantee you will see improvement (even without lifting a barbell).

 

Amen brother.

[sweep the leg]

On 2017-05-05 at 1:24 PM, The Unknown Poster said:

I know two people that did Herbal Magic and said it absolutely worked (one guy I knew when he was doing it and he was VERY heavy, like 400lbs and the wight just dropped off him).  Both gained some or all of it back after leaving the program.

 

A friend of my parents, who was approx. 300 pounds, did this and lost probably 100 pounds. He said he felt starved the entire time and gained it all back when he quit. He walks every day now and has lost at least half of that weight again.

[The Unknown Poster]

6 minutes ago, sweep the leg said:

Amen brother.

From my research I certainly have found people who claim to live the low carb lifestyle forever.  But in most cases we're talking people who needed to lose weight so they begin low carbs and as they hit their goals they become more liberal with the carbs.  So to me the idea isnt you NEVER have carbs.  Although certainly people do survive on low carbs.  And in most cases, these arent athletes.  So we cant really take any health plan and say "well, but that doesnt work if you're really pushing yourself athletically" because people pushing themselves athletically likely dont need specific plans for fat loss.

[The Unknown Poster]

2 minutes ago, sweep the leg said:

A friend of my parents, who was approx. 300 pounds, did this and lost probably 100 pounds. He said he felt starved the entire time and gained it all back when he quit. He walks every day now and has lost at least half of that weight again.

One of the people (a co-worker) who I didnt know until I brought it up last week who did it said the same thing,  She said it definitely worked, she lost 60+ lbs.  But she was always hungry and she went in and said "Im so hungry" and they told her to pills they provide should alleviate that but it wasnt working for her.  I think the key things are that they are relentless about daily weigh ins so its like having someone constantly reminding you to follow the program and there is a "shame/guilt" component.

If you did a regular low caloric plan and someone was calling you every single day and seeing you every single day and making you get on a scale every day, you'd probably be more inclined to stick with it until you just couldnt anymore.

[Mr Dee]

Keep up the good work guys. 

There is nothing to be laughed at when changing one's dietary choices.

How one chooses to eat is definitely a personal decision. And with a wealth of information out there, there should be no "I didn't know any better" claims. 

When I was a kid I ate what was fed to me, like it or not. But, there were no warnings of less sugar and there were far less processed foods laying claim to our eating patterns. 

Now we know know what is potentially killing us. GMO foods. Insecticide-laced produce from foreign countries, and even our own country. Modified foods. Chemically laced drinks and foods.

"Our bodies are designed to operate on a lower amount of carbohydrates than what we’re used to eating, so less carbs isn’t an issue. When there is an absence of carbs (which is how we’re USED to operating), our body will take stored fat and burn THAT for energy in a process called ketogenesis."

You can get carbs from vegetables, sweet potatoes and fruit.

So, I urge people to respect their bodies and avoid sugars, grains and especially processed foods.

As Spock would say "Live long and prosper".