Bombers Off-Season Transactions

[Guest J5V]

12 minutes ago, WBBFanWest said:

I rate him as better than anyone else we've had in quite a while, and that's the only metric that really matters.  Also, I always chuckle at these "who's better than who" arguments for one simple reason:  Our roster does not have Jennings, BLM, Reilly, Durant, Burris, Colaros, Ray, and Cato on it, so who's better than who is irrelevant because it's which team is better than which.  We have Nichols and Nichols won 10 of the 13 games he started.   That's more than acceptable by any standard and it's certain not "below average" for a starting qb or for a team.   We don't need to have the "best" qb to win.  We demonstrated that this year.  One could argue the BLM was the best qb in the CFL in 2016.  Turns out that Calgary won as many Grey Cups this year with him as we did with Nichols.  Put the right people around Nichols on O, and he's more than good enough.  

I was going to agree that he might be above average for the QBs that we've had but then I remembered, how would we know? We rarely get to see any others play. 

That reminds me, missing from the list of QBs I mentioned above are the backups and I suspect many of them are also better than Nichols. Guys like Lulay, Masoli, and even our own Kevin Glenn.

As for the argument that you can win without the best QB, sure you can, if your team is exceptionally talented everywhere else. But I'd argue that two of the best QBs in the league played in the Grey Cup. I'd also point out that one of the reasons we never got to the Grey Cup was that Jennings outplayed Nichols by a country mile in the second half of the WSF. When Ottawa won it Burris played great. When Edm won it - Reilly. When Calgary won it - BLM. When Toronto won it - Ray. BC - Lulay. Montreal - Calvillo. etc, etc. In the CFL it may not be necessary to have a top quality QB to win the championship but it sure helps and is the rule rather than the exception. 

[Floyd]

When Walters traded for him, I said that Nichols is a poor man's Kevin Glenn...  I'd remove the 'poor man's' rating now and say he's a younger Kevin Glenn...  great at running a game, makes some real nice reads and plays, falls apart under pressure...

 

 

[Floyd]

http://3downnation.com/2016/12/17/eleven-players-change-teams-in-cfls-double-secret-neg-list-draft/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+3downnation%2FgLSo+(3DownNation)

Bombers add NI LB Akeem Whonder...  lose Imp OL Audrey Walker and REC Julian Talley

Quinterrious Eatmon officially voted best name in CFL.

Edited December 17, 2016 by Floyd

[Brandon]

2 hours ago, Floyd said:

When Walters traded for him, I said that Nichols is a poor man's Kevin Glenn...  I'd remove the 'poor man's' rating now and say he's a younger Kevin Glenn...  great at running a game, makes some real nice reads and plays, falls apart under pressure...

 

 

I will disagree on him falling apart under pressure.   If anything that's one of his solid attributes is that the guy can be clutch.  

His main "negatives" would be his physical attributes and injury history.    

[Floyd]

59 minutes ago, Brandon said:

I will disagree on him falling apart under pressure.   If anything that's one of his solid attributes is that the guy can be clutch.  

His main "negatives" would be his physical attributes and injury history.    

I should have said 'october' instead of 'pressure'... thats more what I mean.  

[Doublezero]

39 minutes ago, Floyd said:

I should have said 'october' instead of 'pressure'... thats more what I mean.  

Nichols engineered a couple of stellar comeback wins vs Lions in October while the defence fell apart in the semi-final costing us the game. If there is any element of the team falling apart under pressure it was the Bombers defence. I remember a game where Calgary scored with 15 seconds left in the game to steal a win from us - how is that on Nichols? If anything it is the Bombers defence that consistently crumbled under pressure, not the QB.

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/football/cfl/bombers-lions-cfl-1.3806415

 

 

 

[SpeedFlex27]

3 hours ago, J5V said:

I was going to agree that he might be above average for the QBs that we've had but then I remembered, how would we know? We rarely get to see any others play. 

That reminds me, missing from the list of QBs I mentioned above are the backups and I suspect many of them are also better than Nichols. Guys like Lulay, Masoli, and even our own Kevin Glenn.

As for the argument that you can win without the best QB, sure you can, if your team is exceptionally talented everywhere else. But I'd argue that two of the best QBs in the league played in the Grey Cup. I'd also point out that one of the reasons we never got to the Grey Cup was that Jennings outplayed Nichols by a country mile in the second half of the WSF. When Ottawa won it Burris played great. When Edm won it - Reilly. When Calgary won it - BLM. When Toronto won it - Ray. BC - Lulay. Montreal - Calvillo. etc, etc. In the CFL it may not be necessary to have a top quality QB to win the championship but it sure helps and is the rule rather than the exception. 

We lost the WDSF not because of Nichols but because our defense played soft coverage all season & MOS didn't go for it on 3rd & 4. Trying instead for a 61 yard FG (which aside from Dave Dickenson's brutal call on the 2 yard line in the Grey Cup) was the dumbest call made by a head coach in the CFL this season. At least Dickenson owned it but O'Shea didn't as he said that he'd make the same decision again & again.  Somehow that's Nichols fault. 

[wbbfan]

3 hours ago, Brandon said:

I will disagree on him falling apart under pressure.   If anything that's one of his solid attributes is that the guy can be clutch.  

His main "negatives" would be his physical attributes and injury history.    

Yeah he plays his best ball in the 4th and certainly came to play against BC. The only bad thing you can say about the bc game from him was the 2 heavily floated deep balls. And that just isnt in his repertoire. Cant fault him for not being able to hit those passes cleanly any more then you can fault him for not being able to run like michael vick. 

56 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

We lost the WDSF not because of Nichols but because our defense played soft coverage all season & MOS didn't go for it on 3rd & 4. Trying instead for a 61 yard FG (which aside from Dave Dickenson's brutal call on the 2 yard line in the Grey Cup) was the dumbest call made by a head coach in the CFL this season. At least Dickenson owned it but O'Shea didn't as he said that he'd make the same decision again & again.  Somehow that's Nichols fault. 

Every aspect of the game had the chance to win the game and failed to do so. The defense more then any other part of the team. But the D carried the team to the play offs. Nichols horribly sailed 2 deep passes to wide open targets. Easy TDs that were negated. The offense scored a TD on one of those drives and didnt on the other. He and the offense had the ball to win the game at the end too and needed again to go to medlock to bail us out. 

Every member of the team gets a share of the lose. Nichols isnt nearly as big as the front 7. Though people in bomberville want to crown nichols with 100% of the credit for the turn around. Some how that doesnt apply in the lose. The truth is his part in the turn around was smaller then the D and the OL and medlock. Bigger then the rest. His performance against bc was better then that group mostly. Maybe his best game of the year. But still not enough. 

The 61 yard call is probably going to be brought up till next year is well in swing. But medlock hit from 59 in game iirc not in a stadium. In warm ups he hit from longer then that including at bc. I think we could have gotten the first down passing with in the side lines and tried to spike it. But when it comes down to it last year medlock is easily the guy i want to be in the position to make a play to win the game. More then any other player on the team. 

[JCon]

Nicholls threw 390 yards, 2 TDs with zero interceptions. Please tell me again how he failed in the West Semi-Final? 

[Floyd]

5 minutes ago, JCon said:

Nicholls threw 390 yards, 2 TDs with zero interceptions. Please tell me again how he failed in the West Semi-Final? 

6 points in the second half... and 1 minute to get within field goal range.

That's the similarity with Glenn... great stats but this tendency to choke in big games.

[JCon]

10 minutes ago, Floyd said:

6 points in the second half... and 1 minute to get within field goal range.

That's the similarity with Glenn... great stats but this tendency to choke in big games.

He played his best game of the year in the game that mattered the most. Choke, how? 

[SpeedFlex27]

4 hours ago, JCon said:

He played his best game of the year in the game that mattered the most. Choke, how? 

Our defense choked. Our Head Coach choked on that call but he's too stubborn to admit a mistake. O'Shea deserves a new contract but I'm concerned his huge ego & arrogance will mean he'll never learn from his mistakes.

 

[Noeller]

7 hours ago, JCon said:

He played his best game of the year in the game that mattered the most. Choke, how? 

Well... He did in the first half anyhow...... About that second half? 

[SpeedFlex27]

51 minutes ago, Noeller said:

Well... He did in the first half anyhow...... About that second half? 

The game was always in reach & it's disappointing how bad our defensive coverages are & had been the entire season. It really showed how exposed our defense was. I'd be really happy if Ritchie Hall was replaced. If we had just an average defense in the playoffs I believe that  we would have defeated the Lions. I thought Nichols was solid that game. I pin the loss on Ritchie Hall & his defense. 

Edited December 18, 2016 by SpeedFlex27

[Noeller]

7 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

The game was always in reach & it's disappointing how bad our defensive coverages are & had been the entire season. It really showed how exposed our defense was. I'd be really happy if Ritchie Hall was replaced. If we had just an average defense in the playoffs I believe that  we would have defeated the Lions. I thought Nichols was solid that game. I pin the loss on Ritchie Hall & his defense. 

Everything everyone is saying about the D in that game is true, but also doesn't take away from the fact that Nichols and the offense stunk in the second half. 

[JCon]

15 minutes ago, Noeller said:

Everything everyone is saying about the D in that game is true, but also doesn't take away from the fact that Nichols and the offense stunk in the second half. 

True enough. But why stop handing it to Harris in the second half? Nicholls is effective when the attack is balanced. Stop handing it to Harris and the defence can sit back. 

[17to85]

1 hour ago, JCon said:

True enough. But why stop handing it to Harris in the second half? Nicholls is effective when the attack is balanced. Stop handing it to Harris and the defence can sit back. 

Can be said about any qb and it's a big Lapo problem. 

Nichols did well for us, I am not sure he's worth paying big big money too though and there were some issues in the west semi final. People often get too blackand white in their thinking about this team. Lots of shades of grey in there. 

[SpeedFlex27]

5 hours ago, Noeller said:

Everything everyone is saying about the D in that game is true, but also doesn't take away from the fact that Nichols and the offense stunk in the second half. 

LOL! If Durant signs in Saskatchewan or leaves as a free agent & signs somewhere else & then Nichols leaves here as well it won't just be quarterbacking that stinks with the Bombers. It'll be all over before it starts. Hello, 2015. How've ya been? 

Edited December 18, 2016 by SpeedFlex27

[Goalie]

The thing with Nichols, It's not like he did anything spectacular, he was just ho hum, he didn't make many mistakes aka he didn't throw many interceptions but in the end, ended up with a few for sure.. He was average, did he have some good games? for sure, he also had some bad games, he was ok, not MOP worthy or even close in my opinion, I'm not sure the team would have been any different if a guy like Glenn went in instead of Nichols, it's not about being spectacular, it's about limiting the mistakes, winning the turnover battle and we did lots of games, But outside of that rain game, there was really no games where we actually blew out anyone and for the most part, i thought our O went 2 and out a ton throughout the season and in games, I mean we had big leads at times but then we'd go cold... I dunno. Would i like it if Nichols is back? sure, 400 plus k? Probably not... would i guarantee him the starters position? I don't think i would actually. 

[SpeedFlex27]

Quarterback salaries are going up whether fans like it or not. They may think that $400,000 a year is too much but the real elites in the CFL will be making a half million a year. My advice to Bomber fans? Stop hoping Kyle Walters will sign Nichols for less than $400,000 a year as he won't. No capable free agent starter like Durant will come here for less, they'll want more. Nichols has said that he wanted $450,000 a year. That means he won't sign for under 4. They can negotiate anywhere between 4 & 450 but it won't be under 4.

[Floyd]

I'm actually not saying that Nichols is a bad QB... he just reminds me of Glenn.

The difference between average QBs and star-power QBs is bonus $$... Nichols prob gets around $275-300k base (prob $125-150k of this in signing bonus) with bonus up to $425-450k (obviously including grey cup win...)

 

 

[SpeedFlex27]

1 hour ago, Floyd said:

I'm actually not saying that Nichols is a bad QB... he just reminds me of Glenn.

The difference between average QBs and star-power QBs is bonus $$... Nichols prob gets around $275-300k base (prob $125-150k of this in signing bonus) with bonus up to $425-450k (obviously including grey cup win...)

 

 

Sorry, but I disagree. Remember that Nichols saved  Walters & O'Shea's careers. They're loyal & he'll get paid.

Edited December 19, 2016 by SpeedFlex27

[Fatty Liver]

4 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

LOL! If Durant signs in Saskatchewan or leaves as a free agent & signs somewhere else & then Nichols leaves here as well it won't just be quarterbacking that stinks with the Bombers. It'll be all over before it starts. Hello, 2015. How've ya been? 

I've had the same thought, if Walters strikes out with both Nichols and Durant he's playing with fire.  Can't realistically bank on Franklin or Burris coming to Wpg., so the best case scenario would be if Glenn takes over and shows that he is still capable of putting wins on the board, which really wouldn't surprise me with a good team around him.  I think he could run LaPo's cautious  style O just as well as Nichols in time.

Edited December 19, 2016 by Throw Long Bannatyne

[SpeedFlex27]

Just now, Throw Long Bannatyne said:

I've had the same thought, if Walters strikea out with both Nichols and Durant he's playing with fire.  Can't realistically bank on Franklin or Burris coming to Wpg., so the best case scenario would be if Glenn takes over and shows that he is still capable of putting wins on the board, which really wouldn't surprise me with a good team around him.  I think he could run LaPo's cautious  style O just as well as Nichols in time.

Glenn can play but I'd rather have him around as insurance as a solid backup. 

[Fatty Liver]

24 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Glenn can play but I'd rather have him around as insurance as a solid backup. 

Glenn would be a stop-gap until the "next one" arrives and probably couldn't advance the team in the play-offs any further than Nichols.