Bombers cut Apodaca, Frederick and 9 more

[sweep the leg]

7 minutes ago, gcn11 said:

Elliott was a bit mystifying because he didn't really play his way off the roster. He was a very productive QB at the time we let him go. Purely a decision based on his personality and willingness to buy into the system...not skill. Had Joey Elliott stayed within the playbook more often I still think he could have been a franchise QB.

58% comp %, 7 tds, 15 ints, and 69.3 qb rating. We have different opinions on what "very productive" means.

[Atomic]

The thing about Elliott was that he had a gunslinger mentality with no arm strength or mobility.  Not a great combo.

[Jimmy Pop]

13 minutes ago, Noeller said:

this thread is seriously coming unglued, BUT....I just want to make sure there's no revisionist history: At the time, Tim Burke was heralded as the next great HC-In-Waiting. He'd had one interview already for Als HC, and we knew it was just a matter of time before he got his shot, so Mack jumped the queue and gave him a position before someone else did. It just turned out that it completely backfired....

He also had 2 rounds of interviews in Hamilton before they went with Cortez.

[Fan Boy]

20 hours ago, Brandon said:

People do realize that the other teams do also bring in a boat load of qbs that never pan out right?    It's not only something that happens to our club. 

How often does the CFL even find new starting qbs....

I was just going to post this sort of thing. QB is a hard position to get for CFL for many reasons and it shows and not just for our team. The fact that a couple of teams seem to feed the whole league shows that only a few people have the right combination of connections and evaluation skills to find CFL QB's. 

[Arnold_Palmer]

I remember I was at the game where Elliot threw over 400 yards and then won player of the week and everyone thought he was the next great QB. All I saw was a weak arm that took forever to get to the receiver, fortunately for one or two games only our receiving core came down with the ball. They really bailed him out. Under no circumstances was Elliot ever a good or productive QB.

[JuranBoldenRules]

9 minutes ago, Fan Boy said:

I was just going to post this sort of thing. QB is a hard position to get for CFL for many reasons and it shows and not just for our team. The fact that a couple of teams seem to feed the whole league shows that only a few people have the right combination of connections and evaluation skills to find CFL QB's. 

Plus you can basically scratch the top 200 QBs on the continent off your list and then start scouting.  Any QB who ends up in the CFL has significant flaws, it's just a matter of how they adapt to buttress around that.

[Fan Boy]

Burke was a bad memory but to say he was worse than Mike Kelly is re writing history. Mike Kelly brought a historical offensive set and tried to use i in the modern era. He couldn't run a football team either.  Someone here has a hobby of criticising MOS as a leader. Compared to Burke and Kelly, MOS is a master. We need the season to start before the knifes come out. 

[blue_gold_84]

1 hour ago, Mike said:

Had he not had a coach who threw him under the bus, that might have helped also.

For all the talk of Mike Kelly and Joe Mack, etc, etc ... I think it is quite honestly Tim Burke who set this franchise back the most in his time here. He was an absolute disaster.

Sure, that's fair. But who put Burke in that position? Mack deserves all the blame he gets for the questionable decisions he made as GM of this team. Throws LaPolice under the bus after a close loss at home and then puts all the responsibility on an interim rookie HC with some misguided expectation to turn around the team.

1 hour ago, gcn11 said:

No one put a gun to his head and forced him.

So, he should've just refused to take over as HC and bail on the team...?

[Fan Boy]

4 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

Plus you can basically scratch the top 200 QBs on the continent off your list and then start scouting.  Any QB who ends up in the CFL has significant flaws, it's just a matter of how they adapt to buttress around that.

I wanted to say that but it is a bit negative to the game we love. Besides that some NFL QB's have serious flaws. Good QB's in general are incredibly hard to find. 

[JuranBoldenRules]

5 minutes ago, Fan Boy said:

Burke was a bad memory but to say he was worse than Mike Kelly is re writing history. Mike Kelly brought a historical offensive set and tried to use i in the modern era. He couldn't run a football team either.  Someone here has a hobby of criticising MOS as a leader. Compared to Burke and Kelly, MOS is a master. We need the season to start before the knifes come out. 

Burke was worse.  No doubt about it.  His team was not even competitive.  The only comparables to him in terms of horrific teams in modern times are Reinebold and Daley.

Edited June 14, 2017 by JuranBoldenRules

[rebusrankin]

Tim Burke's team had 8 games (almost half the season) where they score 18 or fewer points. You have to put him at the top of the list for the worst coaches in modern CFL history. He deserves it for the Boltus game alone.

[Nash00]

4 minutes ago, rebusrankin said:

Tim Burke's team had 8 games (almost half the season) where they score 18 or fewer points. You have to put him at the top of the list for the worst coaches in modern CFL history. He deserves it for the Boltus game alone.

Good god I had wiped that one from my memory. Those were dark times.

[SpeedFlex27]

11 hours ago, BigBlue said:

the question is not conspiracy bu a questioning of MOS's judgment ... there has been reason to question part of it in the past and the suggestion that certain blind spots continue to exist to the detriment of the whole club ... others who see the flaw/s may end up in sharp disagreement ... that is the nature of the current discussion/emerging problem identification

Like I had said, nothing here. They made a decision to cut him. Should we question every cut they make & ask why? Chances are, they'll bring in a fourth qb later. They have their 3 qbs & seem happy with them.

[SpeedFlex27]

3 hours ago, tracker said:

I think you are missing the point. The question was really about the initial  assessment of Apodaca as a potential CFL quarterback. 

Lots of players get hyped then don't live up it. Cutting Apodaca is no big deal.

[Fatty Liver]

26 minutes ago, blue_gold_84 said:

Sure, that's fair. But who put Burke in that position? Mack deserves all the blame he gets for the questionable decisions he made as GM of this team. Throws LaPolice under the bus after a close loss at home and then puts all the responsibility on an interim rookie HC with some misguided expectation to turn around the team.

So, he should've just refused to take over as HC and bail on the team...?

I thought LaPo actually won the last game before he was canned?  It was inevitable either way...

[BigBlue]

10 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Like I had said, nothing here. They made a decision to cut him. Should we question every cut they make & ask why? Chances are, they'll bring in a fourth qb later. They have their 3 qbs & seem happy with them.

"nothing here" if you like but i want to keep an eye on his propensity for good judgment .... like betting your season on a 61 yard FG or sticking with Willy until forced by management to make a change ... or sticking to very passive coordinators in an aggressive league

I love MOS as our coach but he needs to learn to take some advice and modify what he does, not just over manage or under manage .... I think MOS takes us to the western final this year but that is still two victories shy of a Grey Cup .... someone needs to help MOS overcome his stubborn flaws

 

Edited June 14, 2017 by BigBlue

[Mike]

The main thing that I disliked about Tim Burke was his expressions on the sideline. Blame Mike Kelly for being an arrogant, loudmouth windbag all you want, at least it came from him caring deeply about wanting to win. Burke constantly had an infuriating, blank look on his face that said "oh well, who cares" and it infected the whole team.

 

[SpeedFlex27]

Just now, BigBlue said:

"nothing here" if you like but i want to keep an eye on the propensity for good judgment .... like betting your season on a 61 yard FG or sticking with Willy until forced by management to make a change ... or sticking to very passive coordinators in an aggressive league

I love MOS as our coach but he needs to learn to take some advice and modify what he does, not just over manage or under manage .... I think MOS takes us to the western final this year but that is still two victories shy of a Grey Cup .... someone needs to help MOS overcome his stubborn flaws

 

And I guess you're that guy.... Notice no question mark. Go get 'em. Set this coaching staff straight.

[blue_gold_84]

13 minutes ago, Throw Long Bannatyne said:

I thought LaPo actually won the last game before he was canned?  It was inevitable either way...

It was a loss to the Lions, final score 20-17. I was at that game and it was pretty entertaining, despite ending up as a loss on a last second FG by BC. Matthews had 100 yards receiving and Washington had a pick and a fumble recovery, as well as some nice returns.

LaPolice was canned the next day, and Burke took over as the Bombers went into the bye week. Then they were massacred in Regina.

Edited June 14, 2017 by blue_gold_84

[SpeedFlex27]

Just now, Mike said:

The main thing that I disliked about Tim Burke was his expressions on the sideline. Blame Mike Kelly for being an arrogant, loudmouth windbag all you want, at least it came from him caring deeply about wanting to win. Burke constantly had an infuriating, blank look on his face that said "oh well, who cares" and it infected the whole team.

 

I don't think it was an "I don't care" look. More like, "I have no clue what to do. Mommy..."

[Mike]

Just now, blue_gold_84 said:

It was a loss to the Lions, final score 20-17. I was at that game it was pretty entertaining. Matthews had 100 yards receiving and Washington had a pick and fumble recovery,

LaPolice was canned the next day, and Burke took over as the Bombers went into the bye week. Then they were massacred in Regina.

I remember that game. Never have I felt so disgusted by a Bomber coach and team in my entire life. I worked harder getting myself up out of bed at 6 AM on the Saturday to drive out to watch them than they did over that entire 60 minutes of football.

The worst part about that game is it wasn't even like we were making mistakes left, right and center. We just didn't care. I think we had two turnovers all game and we got smoked 52-0.

[BigBlue]

2 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

And I guess you're that guy.... Notice no question mark. Go get 'em. Set this coaching staff straight.

I am sort of ok with low risk Lapo and controlling turnovers but if our new DLine fails to get pressure on the QB .... it could be a long year if we are repeating last year's defensive stats .... as it stands we are totally dependent on winning the giveaway takeaway battle

[blue_gold_84]

Just now, Mike said:

I remember that game. Never have I felt so disgusted by a Bomber coach and team in my entire life. I worked harder getting myself up out of bed at 6 AM on the Saturday to drive out to watch them than they did over that entire 60 minutes of football.

The worst part about that game is it wasn't even like we were making mistakes left, right and center. We just didn't care. I think we had two turnovers all game and we got smoked 52-0.

That was the ugliest game I've ever watched. Never have I seen a team look so apathetic. I couldn't even imagine being at the game itself for that embarrassing display by the Bombers. I'd have probably bailed at half-time.

The Banjo Bowl was better but that was loss was just as gutting (losing on another last second FG). But then a week later, that apathy carried over in Calgary, as the Bombers got slaughtered again 44-3. That was the game where players were laughing on the sidelines. I'll never forget the look on Burke's face as Collier chuckled like an idiot behind him on the bench... All on national TV. Just sickening.

[SPuDS]

15 hours ago, tracker said:

Its a bit of a puzzlement that a QB could show enough potential to be flown all the way here but yet not be good enough to be kept past the first pre-season game.

is it?  he got here, he looked bad in the game he was in.. maybe he didn't look as good in camp as we all thought?  I mean, its really not surprising to me.  I don't know why its so shocking to some people that a QB would get cut after a poor performance when the bullets are flying..

[SPuDS]

2 hours ago, gcn11 said:

Elliott was a bit mystifying because he didn't really play his way off the roster. He was a very productive QB at the time we let him go. Purely a decision based on his personality and willingness to buy into the system...not skill. Had Joey Elliott stayed within the playbook more often I still think he could have been a franchise QB.

well yes and no.. after he left here, didn't he land on some other rosters and not go anywhere there either?  I didn't think we were the only team where he flamed out..

 

 

I do agree that he was the closest to the "one" we could have had develop into something work sticking around tho in a long time.