Bombers vs Riders GDT

[bigg jay]

12 minutes ago, Ripper said:

Calgary was tops in league for points for 586. 56 field goals equals 29% of the points they scored.  Bombers 5th in league with 497. medlocks 60 field goals is 36% of the points the Bombers scored

Which is why I said the percentage of our offense coming from Medlock was too high for my liking.  Somewhere in the 20-30% range is where I would want them to be.  I just get annoyed when people trot out the 60# for Medlock & say it's too high when the next guy wasn't far off but gets a pass.

FWIW, here's how the rest of the league ranked for percentage s coming from FG's.  BC - 20%, Edm - 24.5%, Sask - 31%, Tor - 29%, Ott - 31%, Ham - 24%, Mtl - 21%

[bearpants]

On 7/2/2017 at 9:49 AM, JuranBoldenRules said:

4th quarter is where we really could have used Flanders.  Everytime Harris got the rock it was a 7-8 yard gain.  Could have just stomped on their throats and fed the backs.  Should have done more of that early too let the offence settle.  For the most part my feeling on Lapo hasn't changed in 15 years.  He should call his 2nd down play on first down.  Way too many 2nd and longs last night.

I was thinking the same thing watching the game... I think the contributions Flanders could bring to our offense far out-weigh the minimal impact Lankford has on teams... if a receiver gets hurt in game, you can go with Coates, play Harris in the slot, or have more two back set with Harris and Flanders... just seems like such a waste to have such a good player sitting out...

3 hours ago, Ripper said:

I was definitely one of the ones that thought you paid way too much. The fact you had to renegotiate the contract before the end of the season only proved my point didn't it?  For any reasonable amount, no question Medlock is as good as anyone in the league and better than most.

sorry, but there is absolutely no question Medlock is far and away the best FG kicker in the league... there's currently no one even close to second... and the money was "redistributed" but that's not even the point... even if he took a pay cut that still doesn't prove your point... if he was a 75% FG kicker, then you would be correct, he is way over paid... 

[GCn20]

The kicker I have seen that is overpaid is Crapigna. What is EI maximum? ...because that is the size of paycheque he should be getting.

[Taynted_Fayth]

we weren't putting up many point the first 5 games with Willy behind center averaging 1 TD a game (5) but interestingly looking at the boxscores,  Medlock only kicked 1 FG in the first 2 games,  the 58 yarder in game 1 and none in game 2 - both losses. Our first win came against Hamilton in week 3 in Ham, where Medlock kicked 4 FGs.  

I don't really wanna go through all the box scores but It would be interesting to see how many Wins we get when Medlock kicks 4 or more FGs.  he went 5/5 on sat,  I know we definitely won the game he booted 8 fgs.  Maybe its by design he contributes as much as he does

[Atomic]

Just now, Taynted_Fayth said:

we weren't putting up many point the first 5 games with Willy behind center averaging 1 TD a game (5) but interestingly looking at the boxscores,  Medlock only kicked 1 FG in the first 2 games,  the 58 yarder in game 1 and none in game 2 - both losses. Our first win came against Hamilton in week 3 in Ham, where Medlock kicked 4 FGs.  

I don't really wanna go through all the box scores but It would be interesting to see how many Wins we get when Medlock kicks 4 or more FGs.  he went 5/5 on sat,  I know we definitely won the game he booted 8 fgs.  Maybe its by design he contributes as much as he does

Well 8 FGs is 24 points.  Even if you only tack on one TD that's still 31 points and a pretty good offensive output.

[mbrg]

3 hours ago, Taynted_Fayth said:

how are they going to score from their own 45? If your banking you are going to hold them to a FG then why not just bank you can keep them out of FG range and give up 2 instead of 3.  As I mentioned their previous 2 drives they had a combined 19 net yards of offense and 2 punts so its not like we were recently scorched. 

I get fans don't like to give the other team "free point" but imo giving the ball to the opponent on your side of the field is no different and should result in more than the 2 surrendered,  which it did (7).  Would we have stopped them on their side of the field? who knows... But if we ignore the hindsight of the end result, I certainly like the idea of trying to hold the riders out of FG range vs trying to hold them to a FG. Mathematically it makes more sense to give up the 2 and try for the same objective,  stop them. If we can't then we deserve to eat the points.

The same way they score from anywhere else on the field.

How come in your scenario it is only those magical 20 yards where a team will be stopped?

A team that can march the ball down field and score will do it from either 45 yard line.

If they're going to score a touchdown, why give them 9 points instead of 7?  If they're going to kick a field goal, why give them 5 points instead of 3?  If our defence is going to stop them, why give them 2 points instead of 0?

Unless a team is facing a strong headwind or sitting on an absolutely massive lead, giving up a safety is stupid.

Through 2 weeks of football, 6 of 8 games were decided by 4 points or less.  One of those wasn't even decided.  2 points does matter.  Don't go giving it up like it's prom night in Boissevain.

[Fatty Liver]

2 hours ago, Taynted_Fayth said:

we weren't putting up many point the first 5 games with Willy behind center averaging 1 TD a game (5) but interestingly looking at the boxscores,  Medlock only kicked 1 FG in the first 2 games,  the 58 yarder in game 1 and none in game 2 - both losses. Our first win came against Hamilton in week 3 in Ham, where Medlock kicked 4 FGs.  

I don't really wanna go through all the box scores but It would be interesting to see how many Wins we get when Medlock kicks 4 or more FGs.  he went 5/5 on sat,  I know we definitely won the game he booted 8 fgs.  Maybe its by design he contributes as much as he does

Willy's specialty was the "two and out", he had difficulty moving the ball into Medlock's range.  Conversely Nichols moved the ball fairly well up until the redzone.

[Taynted_Fayth]

1 hour ago, mbrg said:

The same way they score from anywhere else on the field.

How come in your scenario it is only those magical 20 yards where a team will be stopped?

A team that can march the ball down field and score will do it from either 45 yard line.

If they're going to score a touchdown, why give them 9 points instead of 7?  If they're going to kick a field goal, why give them 5 points instead of 3?  If our defence is going to stop them, why give them 2 points instead of 0?

Unless a team is facing a strong headwind or sitting on an absolutely massive lead, giving up a safety is stupid.

Through 2 weeks of football, 6 of 8 games were decided by 4 points or less.  One of those wasn't even decided.  2 points does matter.  Don't go giving it up like it's prom night in Boissevain.

was playing the averages i mentioned in a previous post. Medlock was averaging 65 yards on kickoffs (so from his own 25 would boot to the opposing 20) and the average kick off return was 27 yards for the riders.  

True if they are going to score they are going to score,  but we helped them score by giving them a shorter field to work with.

If our plan is to outright stop them,  spotting them the ball from our own 43 is a piss poor way to do that as it's field goal range. and last time i checked 3 > 2.

this is all a game of what ifs at this point. I still don't like the call. I don't like giving up 2 either but when you're pinned deep like that and there's still 3:00 left in the second in a 7 point game (10-3) id have prefered it. 

[mbrg]

It's entirely anecdotal on my part, and I'm referencing prior regimes since this one apparently has equal dislike for giving up safeties as I do, but I am quite certain that in the past when the Bombers conceded safeties with painful regularity, teams would add points to the 2 we freely gave them on the drive that immediately followed more than 50% of the time.

If someone has access to that type of information and the wherewithal to go through it, my memory will be proven either right or wrong.

[JuranBoldenRules]

11 minutes ago, mbrg said:

It's entirely anecdotal on my part, and I'm referencing prior regimes since this one apparently has equal dislike for giving up safeties as I do, but I am quite certain that in the past when the Bombers conceded safeties with painful regularity, teams would add points to the 2 we freely gave them on the drive that immediately followed more than 50% of the time.

If someone has access to that type of information and the wherewithal to go through it, my memory will be proven either right or wrong.

It's hard to compare because the kickoff from the 25 has become punitive enough for teams to all but abandon the strategy except for exceptional wind situations.

The ones that got me back in the day (like 5 years ago) was when a kicker would take the snap inside the 10, turn and run back to the end zone to concede.  I think if I were coaching and I had that little confidence in my kicker, cover team and defence I'd just fire myself.

[SpeedFlex27]

23 hours ago, blueingreenland said:

I don't think Jones gets fired this year (speaking as a Bomber fan living in Saskatchewan). They will let him ride it out. If he doesn't get a certain back-up QB in Edmonton to sign in the off-season (or in a trade) then he will be let go very early in the 2018 season.

I'll make a prediction. The Esks will sign Franklin to a new contract & trade Reilly to the Argos. He'll take over from Ray. The Riders will never see the guy. That or he goes to the NFL.

[Seekoy]

Watching this game on TSN.

Carmichael got lit up, knew it in the stadium, but yeesh rough first game. Take that away and the D was not too bad.

Personal fouls hurt (fixable)

Leggett almost got a late pick on a classic Glenn panic play.

That looked like a fumble by Grant Sr. to me.

Okpo had a better game than I thought. The play where he takes on two lineman in the backfield and hauls down Marshall was Bananas.

Loffler got caught in coverage against 82 way too long on extended plays..hard for any DB to make that work let a lone a safety.

Riders really had a lot go their way.

 

Edited July 5, 2017 by Seekoy

[Seekoy]

The personal fouls on Wild and Goosen...not sure how those get called.

Whatever I , and others who went, paid to be there, it was worth it not to have to deal with TSN openly cheering for the Riders.

I feel for those who watched on TV

Edited July 5, 2017 by Seekoy

[SpeedFlex27]

17 minutes ago, Seekoy said:

The personal fouls on Wild and Goosen...not sure how those get called.

That Goosen oenalty was non existent yet the officlas called it.

 

 

[Bomberfan85]

19 minutes ago, Seekoy said:

The personal fouls on Wild and Goosen...not sure how those get called.

Whatever I , and others who went, paid to be there, it was worth it not to have to deal with TSN openly cheering for the Riders.

I feel for those who watched on TV

I was at the game too, which was an awesome experience. But watching some of the game online afterwards, my favourite was when Suitor actually straight up said "Oh no." when Crapigna nailed the upright. Suitor sounded so depressed.

[Bomber_fanaddict]

Just caught the last half again. Wow did Jones makes some dumb play calling, dumb substitutions (likely due to injury) and a some dumb challenges. With a few tweaks to our own play calling we should have had 2 more TDs in the last half and not given up one. That score was closer then it had to be.

[Seekoy]

21 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

That Goosen oenalty was non existent yet the officlas called it.

 

 

Yup. 

Edited July 5, 2017 by Seekoy

[Seekoy]

18 minutes ago, Bomberfan85 said:

I was at the game too, which was an awesome experience. But watching some of the game online afterwards, my favourite was when Suitor actually straight up said "Oh no." when Crapigna nailed the upright. Suitor sounded so depressed.

Pretty ridiculous.

Has another "oh no" to add to his call on Milt's TD against Edmonton.

He was heartbroken. He hates the Bombers.

[Guest J5V]

15 minutes ago, Seekoy said:

Pretty ridiculous.

Has another "oh no" to add to his call on Milt's TD against Edmonton.

He was heartbroken. He hates the Bombers.

I think that was Cuthbert not Suitor.

[Seekoy]

15 minutes ago, J5V said:

I think that was Cuthbert not Suitor.

Sounds like Suitor to me.

[Floyd]

8 hours ago, gcn11 said:

The kicker I have seen that is overpaid is Crapigna. What is EI maximum? ...because that is the size of paycheque he should be getting.

Interesting that he's getting the blame... sure looked like a bobbled hold to me.

[Mr. Perfect]

3 hours ago, Seekoy said:

Sounds like Suitor to me.

To me, Cuthbert and Suitor simultaneously react. Cuthbert says oh no. Suitor says oh baby. At least that's how I hear it. I think people are grasping for straws when they say Suitor hates the Bombers.

[Atomic]

8 hours ago, Floyd said:

Interesting that he's getting the blame... sure looked like a bobbled hold to me.

Really?  The hold looked perfect to me.  Gets it down, turns it, and get his hands out of the way in time for the kick.

[SPuDS]

2 hours ago, Atomic said:

Really?  The hold looked perfect to me.  Gets it down, turns it, and get his hands out of the way in time for the kick.

Laces out Marino!

 

[SpeedFlex27]

15 hours ago, Mr. Perfect said:

To me, Cuthbert and Suitor simultaneously react. Cuthbert says oh no. Suitor says oh baby. At least that's how I hear it. I think people are grasping for straws when they say Suitor hates the Bombers.

In fairness to Suitor saying Oh no can mean so many things. Like saying Oh no Crapigna missed the second FG in 2 games which means he could be cut. Oh no how the Riders let the game slip away. I don't think he hates the Bombers.