Omar Khadr cashes in

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

9 minutes ago, SPuDS said:

when they found Omar, he was buried under dead bodies but still alive.. is it not plausible to assume the military, on the day of attack, thought they did kill the grenade tosser?  he was wounded and I believe found after making noise as a US soldier stood on top of him and his dead comrades.

Is it not also plausible that he couldn't throw the grenade if he was buried under dead bodies?

[SPuDS]

4 minutes ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

Is it not also plausible that he couldn't throw the grenade if he was buried under dead bodies?

pretty sure he wasn't under the bodies until the americans waxed the area where the grenade came from, no?

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

8 minutes ago, SPuDS said:

pretty sure he wasn't under the bodies until the americans waxed the area where the grenade came from, no?

I think that's what's at issue- no one is pretty sure.

[SPuDS]

16 minutes ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

I think that's what's at issue- no one is pretty sure.

but you are ok with giving a terrorist 10.5 million dollars based upon that? 

 

this is what sticks in my craw most definitely.  nobody knows, everything is in a grey area.  why give someone 10.5 million dollars (which may or may not stay here in canada or get funnelled right back into Al-Queda as his father was a financier for said group) on a maybe/possibly/etc. 

 

I do understand that he was wronged and I get that he was "just a boy" but we've tried 15 year olds as adults in extreme circumstances (this is pretty f'in extreme) so why wouldn't that have been a consideration here?

 

this whole fiasco stinks.  I hate that the country I love now looks like we cater to terrorists.  I hate that my tax dollars at work are going towards this and this kangaroo court and I despise the fact that on an international stage, our PM looks like a pushover. 

 

 

[Fatty Liver]

14 minutes ago, SPuDS said:

but you are ok with giving a terrorist 10.5 million dollars based upon that? 

 

this is what sticks in my craw most definitely.  nobody knows, everything is in a grey area.  why give someone 10.5 million dollars (which may or may not stay here in canada or get funnelled right back into Al-Queda as his father was a financier for said group) on a maybe/possibly/etc. 

 

I do understand that he was wronged and I get that he was "just a boy" but we've tried 15 year olds as adults in extreme circumstances (this is pretty f'in extreme) so why wouldn't that have been a consideration here?

 

this whole fiasco stinks.  I hate that the country I love now looks like we cater to terrorists.  I hate that my tax dollars at work are going towards this and this kangaroo court and I despise the fact that on an international stage, our PM looks like a pushover. 

 

 

The laws and the rights of citizens that you despise are the main things that have made this country great in the first place, the govt. must be accountable for upholding those rights, like it or not.  If you wish to live in the "Wild West" I'm sure you can find many accommodating countries that will take you in.....but be careful of what you wish for.

[SPuDS]

20 minutes ago, Throw Long Bannatyne said:

The laws and the rights of citizens that you despise are the main things that have made this country great in the first place, the govt. must be accountable for upholding those rights, like it or not.  If you wish to live in the "Wild West" I'm sure you can find many accommodating countries that will take you in.....but be careful of what you wish for.

right, because I want anarchy since I don't believe this was handled correctly or properly.  is nobody capable of giving a counter-point without coming across as a pompous windbag?

 

smh.  as others, i'm done with this thread. too many donkeys braying away.

[Fatty Liver]

51 minutes ago, SPuDS said:

right, because I want anarchy since I don't believe this was handled correctly or properly.  is nobody capable of giving a counter-point without coming across as a pompous windbag?

 

smh.  as others, i'm done with this thread. too many donkeys braying away.

Yes, insults win the day....again.

[basslicker]

1 hour ago, SPuDS said:

right, because I want anarchy since I don't believe this was handled correctly or properly.  is nobody capable of giving a counter-point without coming across as a pompous windbag?

 

smh.  as others, i'm done with this thread. too many donkeys braying away.

Spuds, you and KBF and why I even come back to this place.........well you guys and Westy Sucks, but we're brothers so I kind of have to.  

[basslicker]

3 hours ago, SPuDS said:

pretty sure he wasn't under the bodies until the americans waxed the area where the grenade came from, no?

This is the released photo.  Khadr is buried under rubble from a collapsed roof, but still, can't tell when that roof collapsed.  The 2nd photo shows him faced down in the forefront.

I've linked the site I got it from.

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/omarkhadr/2009/10/28/omar_khadr_innocent_in_death_of_us_soldier.html

 

Edited July 13, 2017 by basslicker

[kelownabomberfan]

2 hours ago, SPuDS said:

 our PM looks like a pushover. 

Interesting theory that I agree with - Trudeau was in a hurry to settle this as if things went to court, it would be Chretien and Martin who would be dragged through the mud for not acting when they apparently had the chance to get Taliban Omar out of the hoosgow.  They were the ones who caused this idiotic "Charter violation" and the higher ups in the Liberal party didn't want to see the Liberals dragged through the mud, so the back room deal was done, knowing there'd be people out there who would actually argue that "it could have been worse" and "the Supreme Court said he was owed money", both not true, but yet what we've seen argued here and elsewhere.

As for PM's though, our current PM looks bad, that's for sure, but good to see a former PM trying very hard to do something about the massive amount of stench this horrible decision has caused with our neighbours to the South.  This is what true leadership looks like:

Former PM Stephen Harper reaches out to Khadr victim

By Joe Warmington, Toronto Sun

First posted: Thursday, July 13, 2017 11:30 AM EDT | Updated: Thursday, July 13, 2017 11:48 AM EDT

First it was a Toronto Sun reader buying a full-page advertisement to apologize to Omar Khadr’s victims for the eight-figure settlement he received from the Canadian government.

Now former prime minister Stephen Harper has reached out to the families to express his outrage.

Upset about the Liberal government’s $10.5-million settlement with Khadr, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau’s predecessor picked up the phone Wednesday and called American soldier Layne Morris at his home in Utah.

“Layne spoke with Prime Minister Harper today,” his wife, Leisl, said on Wednesday night.

The call came just hours before lawyers for Morris and the widow of American special forces Sgt. Christopher Speer went into court to attempt to freeze Khadr’s assets with a view that the windfall could be applied to a $134-milllion American court judgment they won.

It is believed Harper made a similar call to Speer’s widow, Tabitha, but neither side has confirmed.

However, Leisl Morris said her husband had a good talk with Harper.

“Layne had a little trouble matching schedules with Prime Minister Harper but once they did connect, they spoke for a little over six minutes,” she said.

Her husband was thrilled by the gesture.

“He was very nice,” she said of Harper. “Prime Minister Harper apologized for the payout to Omar.”

And although he appreciated the former prime minister saying that, Morris said it was not necessary.

“Layne told him he did not need an apology because he knows the heart of the Canadian people and understands it’s the government and the current prime minister’s doing,” Leisl said.

She also said it “touched our hearts” that a “concerned” Canadian would spend their own money to take out a full-page ad in the Toronto Sun to let the families know not all Canadians agree with both the amount of the settlement to Khadr and the official apology.

The man who took out the ad told me Thursday: “I am staying anonymous for now because it was meant to come from the sentiment of regular Canadians who feel this way and not just from one. I did it because I felt I needed to put my money where my heart was.”

He said he also appreciated seeing similar commentary from Canadians from coast to coast, including from Harper himself.

Harper has been critical on social media of the settlement.

“The government today attempted to lay blame elsewhere for their decision to conclude a secret deal with Omar Khadr,” Harper wrote in a statement Friday. “The decision to enter into this deal is theirs, and theirs alone, and it is simply wrong. Canadians deserve better than this.

“Today my thoughts are with Tabitha Speer and the families of all Canadian and allied soldiers who paid the ultimate price fighting to protect us.”

And now Harper has expressed this sentiment directly to Khadr’s victims.

http://www.torontosun.com/2017/07/13/former-pm-stephen-harper-reaches-out-to-khadr-victim

[Atomic]

This issue just keeps getting dirtier and dirtier.  I don't know how even the most ardent Liberal supporter can defend them on this.

They got it wrong.  Horribly.

[SpeedFlex27]

Thing of it is, I never signed on to this UN Child Soldier agreement. So, I'm free to say the payment to Khadr sucks. The Liberals may have felt they had to pay the guy so much money because our country is a signateur to the Agreement but again I'm not. Therefore as our government did it themselves, the majority of Canadians are free to say they don't like  the payout & apology. That I don't agree with it & I don't care what the legalese says. Nothing will change my mind. Can't wait till 2019...

Edited July 13, 2017 by SpeedFlex27

[SPuDS]

19 hours ago, basslicker said:

Spuds, you and KBF and why I even come back to this place.........well you guys and Westy Sucks, but we're brothers so I kind of have to.  

well glad you came back then my friend, always good to have solid posters want to stick around regardless of the surrounding chaff lol

[sweep the leg]

17 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Thing of it is, I never signed on to this UN Child Soldier agreement. So, I'm free to say the payment to Khadr sucks. The Liberals may have felt they had to pay the guy so much money because our country is a signateur to the Agreement but again I'm not. Therefore as our government did it themselves, the majority of Canadians are free to say they don't like  the payout & apology. That I don't agree with it & I don't care what the legalese says. Nothing will change my mind. Can't wait till 2019...

Such an odd post. I don't think anybody argued your name is on the document.

[SpeedFlex27]

5 hours ago, sweep the leg said:

Such an odd post. I don't think anybody argued your name is on the document.

Not an odd post when we have posters putting up the Canadian Bill of Rights here & saying we're signatories to the UN Child Soldier agreement arguing & defending the decision & critical of anyone who disagrees with their position. My point is that as a Canadian I can choose to agree or disagree with the award & I will certainly cast my vote against Trudeau & the Liberals in 2 more years. I don't care what supporters of this agreement think. The UN agreement means nothing to me.

 

 

 

Edited July 14, 2017 by SpeedFlex27

[Mark H.]

Just an FYI: cumulative legal costs up until the settlement was made = 5 million dollars 

[SpeedFlex27]

1 hour ago, Mark H. said:

Just an FYI: cumulative legal costs up until the settlement was made = 5 million dollars 

Money well spent.

[Jacquie]

1) The Supreme Court of Canada did acknowledge that Khadr had been tortured.

Quote

"The interrogation of a youth detained without access to counsel, to elicit statements about serious criminal charges while knowing that the youth had been subjected to sleep deprivation and while knowing that the fruits of the interrogations would be shared with the prosecutors, offends the most basic Canadian standards about the treatment of detained youth suspects."

I posted earlier about the sleep deprivation technique (called the Frequent Flyer Program) that was used - Khadr was moved from cell to cell every 3 hours and this happened for 3 weeks. The Canadian officials knew about it before they interrogated him without counsel present. 

2) The US Court didn't come up with the amount of the award in the civil case. Because it was a default judgment the Court award was what was asked for in the lawsuit.

3) Other countries have settled with their citizens who were held and tortured at Guantanamo Bay. From the National Post:

Quote

 

Britain reportedly paid millions to several of its citizens detained at Guantanamo Bay but offered no apologies. One of the highest profile was Moazzam Begg, who along with seven others, had accused the U.K. and its intelligence agencies of complicity in their abduction, mistreatment and interrogation.

...

In a similar case, suspected terrorist Mamdouh Habib reached a confidential settlement with the Australian government in 2010.

 

http://nationalpost.com/news/canada/khadr-settlement-far-from-unprecedented-u-k-australia-made-similar-deals/wcm/b4779295-1f1e-41fe-8594-82136dd9a2e9

4) According to a book entitled Child Soldiers: A Reference Handbook by David M. Rosen Ph.D  the al-Qaeda website praised Khadr's father for "tossing his little child in the furnace of the battle". That sure sounds like Khadr was acting voluntarily (sarcasm).

As well, in a letter to the US military commissions, the UN secretary-general's special representative for children and armed conflict said Khadr represents the "classic child soldier narrative: recruited by unscrupulous groups to undertake actions at the bidding of adults to fight battles they barely understand."

She also said the fact that Khadr was abused by his own father exacerbated the harm done to him.

5) Comments from Moazzam Begg who was at Bagram and Guantanamo at the same time as Khadr and saw how he was treated. Begg also describes what happened to him:

http://globalnews.ca/news/3590844/omar-khadr-moazzam-begg/

6) On August 20, 2002 (almost a month after he was captured), the Canadian government was informed by the US of Khadr’s capture and was asked to confirm his identity according to an Associated Press article. 

Edited July 16, 2017 by Jacquie

[Jacquie]

5 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Money well spent.

So add another ~$20M to fight the civil suit all the way to the Supreme Court where the Government would inevitably have lost and then pay another $20M on top of that for damages as well as additional money for Khadr's legal fees (the Government was ordered to pay his legal fees in at least one of the Supreme Court rulings so it would be likely he would be awarded them again with this suit). 

Personally I would rather that money be spent on things like healthcare, etc.

Edited July 16, 2017 by Jacquie

[Jacquie]

Here is a link to a long but very interesting article from the October 9 , 2016 edition of the New York Times entitled "How US Torture Left A Legacy of Damaged Minds". 

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/09/world/cia-torture-guantanamo-bay.html

[Atomic]

5 hours ago, Jacquie said:

So add another ~$20M to fight the civil suit all the way to the Supreme Court where the Government would inevitably have lost and then pay another $20M on top of that for damages as well as additional money for Khadr's legal fees (the Government was ordered to pay his legal fees in at least one of the Supreme Court rulings so it would be likely he would be awarded them again with this suit). 

Personally I would rather that money be spent on things like healthcare, etc.

Totally fabricated numbers.

[SpeedFlex27]

Jacquie, if I was PM, I'd have litigated until the cows came home to prevent Khadr from collecting one cent. If it took years & cost many more millions then so be it just so Khadr & his family couldn't get their grubby hands on any of it until all legal avenues were exhausted. That's how I feel.

Edited July 16, 2017 by SpeedFlex27

[kelownabomberfan]

9 hours ago, Jacquie said:

So add another ~$20M to fight the civil suit all the way to the Supreme Court where the Government would inevitably have lost and then pay another $20M on top of that for damages as well as additional money for Khadr's legal fees (the Government was ordered to pay his legal fees in at least one of the Supreme Court rulings so it would be likely he would be awarded them again with this suit). 

Personally I would rather that money be spent on things like healthcare, etc.

Personally I would like to see Khadr donate 10 million to a Canadian hospital so all of that money paid to a terrorist goes to healthcare. 

[SpeedFlex27]

I think $150 million would have been money well spent to have prevented Khadr from getting that blood money from Trudeau. Again, I don't care about the UN & their resolutions. The UN is about as corrupt as the IOC, FIFA or any other huge world organization.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 16, 2017 by SpeedFlex27

[Fatty Liver]

2 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

I'd think a $150 million would have been money well spent to have prevented Khadr from getting that blood money from Trudeau. Again, I don't care about the UN & their resolutions

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So the govt. wastes millions of tax payer money fighting the outcome "till the cows come home" against all legal advice and in the end Khadr gets paid much more.  Does that fit your agenda or is it just the endless caterwauling that turns your crank?

Edited July 16, 2017 by Throw Long Bannatyne