Import Recruiting

[AKAChip]

I understand that this is somewhat of a tired topic but I feel like it is not unreasonable to revisit it for the new season. Even as someone skeptical of Kyle Walters' ability as a GM, I can admit he has done a few things well. His trades have for the most part been big wins, he has addressed the team's needs well in free agency and his drafting has been fine. His (and by extension McManus') ability to bring in rookie imports, however, can be described as disappointing at best.

Of the 17 import starters and two specialists from the game last night, five were players who were brought into the league by this regime. The others were either free agent signings (Adams, Dressler, Nevis, Medlock, Hardrick, Bryant, Okpo), acquired by trade (Randle, Heath, Nichols), other teams' cuts (Langford, Washington) or from the previous regime (Denmark, Wild). Of the five actual recruits (Leggett, Johnson, Carmichael, Alexander and Bond), two are bonafide stars and the other three it is too early to say. Even if Carmichael is looking to be a bum already. Is it not odd that well into his fourth year as GM, Walters' team is only starting five of his original finds? I would also count Bruce Johnson but if he were healthy, Carmichael would not be playing so that still brings the total to five. 

I realize there is more to being a good GM than finding new import talent but it just seems ridiculous to me that Walters gets off the hook for this. Since I don't want to compare his work to a GM that has been around for much longer like Huf or Wally, though I still think that would be fair game, I'll do a brief comparison to the recently fired Ed Hervey. From just the last few years he brought in Derel Walker, Aaron Grymes, Dexter McCoil, Zylstra, Kenny Ladler, John White and James Frankin and this is just off the top of my head. And yes, not all of them are still on the Esks but those who aren't got NFL deals. The last two Bombers who got NFL deals were McDuffie and Wild. Neither Walters' finds. 

Edited July 9, 2017 by AKAChip

[B-F-F-C]

You can't really hold the GM directly responsible for the recruitment of import players.  However, the GM is the one who hired the scouting staff.  McManus and Goveia are the ones directly responsible for recruitment.  

Now that being said it's game 2 and I'm not ready to throw anyone under the bus but if we had the same injuries on defence that the Stamps have.  I think we'd be seriously under water. 

 

[AKAChip]

I don't hold the GM directly responsible. Like I said, McManus should take a lot of the blame but Walters is responsible to a large degree. 

[Floyd]

14 minutes ago, AKAChip said:

I realize there is more to being a good GM than finding new import talent but it just seems ridiculous to me that Walters gets off the hook for this. Since I don't want to compare his work to a GM that has been around for much longer like Huf or Wally, though I still think that would be fair game, I'll do a brief comparison to the recently fired Ed Hervey. From just the last few years he brought in Derel Walker, Aaron Grymes, Dexter McCoil, Zylstra, Kenny Ladler, John White and James Frankin and this is just off the top of my head. And yes, not all of them are still on the Esks but those who aren't got NFL deals. The last two Bombers who got NFL deals were McDuffie and Wild. Neither Walters' finds. 

Paul Jones.

[AKAChip]

Right. This isn't a thread solely about Walters or other GMs. It is a statement on the team's ability to recruit imports new to the CFL in general. 

[Floyd]

5 minutes ago, AKAChip said:

Right. This isn't a thread solely about Walters or other GMs. It is a statement on the team's ability to recruit imports new to the CFL in general. 

What I'm saying is that other teams have had continuity in scouting departments... starting first with Bauer cutting costs and then era of blowing up the staff annually, the bombers haven't had a scouting staff for years.

Maybe its premature to expect Goveia and McManus to have a network through the scouts on par with Buono, Hufnagel, Jones, Murphy, Popp...

Really wonder if Jim Barker would not be a good addition to this scouting staff - as long as he's not in charge of trades... ahem.

[B-F-F-C]

1 minute ago, Floyd said:

What I'm saying is that other teams have had continuity in scouting departments... starting first with Bauer cutting costs and then era of blowing up the staff annually, the bombers haven't had a scouting staff for years.

Maybe its premature to expect Goveia and McManus to have a network through the scouts on par with Buono, Hufnagel, Jones, Murphy, Popp...

Really wonder if Jim Barker would not be a good addition to this scouting staff - as long as he's not in charge of trades... ahem.

They've had enough time.  This wasn't either of their first scouting jobs. 

[Floyd]

9 minutes ago, B-F-F-C said:

They've had enough time.  This wasn't either of their first scouting jobs. 

I mean he's had 8 years as opposed to 30 like the other guys.

[Fatty Liver]

The Bombers have brought in plenty of recruited prospects over the last 4 years but O'Shea has cut the majority of them for whatever reason.  Perhaps they weren't good enough players but I think O'Shea's obsession with ST players contributions plays too big a part in deciding who stays and who goes.  Thus they have a roster stuffed with LB and FB type players who are not skilled enough or lack the experience to actually play their position.  Fielding Hurl and Briggs or a rookie at WIL for the next game is going to trigger flashbacks of a LB crew we might have seen in 2014-2015.

[Mark F]

 

Who brought in Aaron Kelly? The two guys they have now remind me of him, tall and  thin. Lankford, and Washington. Similar build.

Aaron made a few nice grabs before they sent him on his way.

[Jpan85]

I feel like if you are able to find one or two starters a year then you are doing good. 

[AKAChip]

18 minutes ago, Mark F said:

 

Who brought in Aaron Kelly? The two guys they have now remind me of him, tall and  thin. Lankford, and Washington. Similar build.

Aaron made a few nice grabs before they sent him on his way.

Washington is a lot like Aaron Kelly. Both are in the Greg Carr category. Big, can run a bit but very awkward in their motion. 

[AKAChip]

11 minutes ago, Jpan85 said:

I feel like if you are able to find one or two starters a year then you are doing good. 

I would agree. In Walters' first year he found Leggett and Bruce Johnson. Since then...

[Mr Dee]

11 minutes ago, Jpan85 said:

I feel like if you are able to find one or two starters a year then you are doing good. 

Well, this is the goal now isn't it? The reason for staff continuity and piling up good draft picks..

I agree. If you can find at least two worthy starters per year, and if you have a starting QB, you will build a good team. And then, keep adding to it.

[Fatty Liver]

1 hour ago, Jpan85 said:

I feel like if you are able to find one or two starters a year then you are doing good. 

Alexander looks good so far, so that's one.

Poop makes two.

Edited July 9, 2017 by Throw Long Bannatyne

[Goalie]

Travis Bond. Manase Foketi looked solid last year. Jeffcoat should be good. 

They struggle with finding receivers but id give Washington more time.. He has skills and has looked good. 

Its crazy how crazy folks get after a loss to BLM. Cutting guy and firing coaches. LOL 

Roc has struggled. Hes probably more of a linebacker tho. Id sit him as a DB and hopefully Johnson or Fogg are healthy soon. But.. He was a LB beast in preseason so wouldnt cut him. 

 

Edited July 9, 2017 by Goalie

[AKAChip]

36 minutes ago, Goalie said:

Travis Bond. Manase Foketi looked solid last year. Jeffcoat should be good. 

They struggle with finding receivers but id give Washington more time.. He has skills and has looked good. 

Its crazy how crazy folks get after a loss to BLM. Cutting guy and firing coaches. LOL 

Roc has struggled. Hes probably more of a linebacker tho. Id sit him as a DB and hopefully Johnson or Fogg are healthy soon. But.. He was a LB beast in preseason so wouldnt cut him. 

 

First of all, Washington wasn't a find. He was on Edmonton's PR last year. I don't think he's any good anyway but that's not the point. 

I also would not say Carmichael was a "beast" at linebacker in preseason. Perhaps in training camp but not particularly in the games. 

Third, my intention isn't to overreact or jump to crazy conclusions, I just think this is a fair criticism of Bomber management. Not every criticism is "crazy". 

[Floyd]

Who cares if a guy is a beast in pre-season...

I'm more concerned about the disconnect between scouting and coaching...  i.e. how did Taylor Reed slip through this coaching staff, why did we develop Bass just to dump him, backup QB carosel - Apodaca, etc..., 

All the guys we thought were developing last year - Burnett, Greenwood, Posey, Duncan, Roberts, Sheppard, Frederick, Mayo, Green, Scott ... are gone - something just seems a bit off.  There's huge prospect turnover every year - really its only Knox that has stuck around this year.

[blueingreenland]

I think the point of this recruitment frustration is that Calgary seems to get into injury trouble every year, and every year the guys they bring in as replacements seem to dominant us. Is that better recruitment or better coaching? Maybe a bit of both...

[Floyd]

10 minutes ago, blueingreenland said:

I think the point of this recruitment frustration is that Calgary seems to get into injury trouble every year, and every year the guys they bring in as replacements seem to dominant us. Is that better recruitment or better coaching? Maybe a bit of both...

For years, Stampeders had John Murphy's 'database' and Hufnagel's son was working as an NFL draft scout - probably uncovered a few gems there...

 

[Noeller]

3 hours ago, Goalie said:

Travis Bond. Manase Foketi looked solid last year. Jeffcoat should be good. 

They struggle with finding receivers but id give Washington more time.. He has skills and has looked good. 

Its crazy how crazy folks get after a loss to BLM. Cutting guy and firing coaches. LOL 

Roc has struggled. Hes probably more of a linebacker tho. Id sit him as a DB and hopefully Johnson or Fogg are healthy soon. But.. He was a LB beast in preseason so wouldnt cut him. 

 

This...... Sounds most likely. 

[wbbfan]

14 minutes ago, Noeller said:

This...... Sounds most likely. 

Ya, the sky is falling

Knox has been a beast on teams, he could turn into the LBer we want/need. Poop johnson and nevis have been massive on the interior DL. Jeffcoat as stated looks like a stud. Roc has struggled but alexander has been good. The dbs from last year as well. I dont think its wr talent thats an issue, its our system. Hard to throw short passes on 3/4 of your plays and turn it into much. 

[JuranBoldenRules]

9 hours ago, Floyd said:

Who cares if a guy is a beast in pre-season...

I'm more concerned about the disconnect between scouting and coaching...  i.e. how did Taylor Reed slip through this coaching staff, why did we develop Bass just to dump him, backup QB carosel - Apodaca, etc..., 

All the guys we thought were developing last year - Burnett, Greenwood, Posey, Duncan, Roberts, Sheppard, Frederick, Mayo, Green, Scott ... are gone - something just seems a bit off.  There's huge prospect turnover every year - really its only Knox that has stuck around this year.

Welcome to football 

[Tracker]

5 hours ago, wbbfan said:

Ya, the sky is falling

Knox has been a beast on teams, he could turn into the LBer we want/need. Poop johnson and nevis have been massive on the interior DL. Jeffcoat as stated looks like a stud. Roc has struggled but alexander has been good. The dbs from last year as well. I dont think its wr talent thats an issue, its our system. Hard to throw short passes on 3/4 of your plays and turn it into much. 

So far Knox has not been a starter on defence, although he has shown flashes, and Bass was darned good as an outside linebacker but mediocre at best in the middle. Overall, our scouting has been poor.

[AKAChip]

7 hours ago, wbbfan said:

Ya, the sky is falling

Knox has been a beast on teams, he could turn into the LBer we want/need. Poop johnson and nevis have been massive on the interior DL. Jeffcoat as stated looks like a stud. Roc has struggled but alexander has been good. The dbs from last year as well. I dont think its wr talent thats an issue, its our system. Hard to throw short passes on 3/4 of your plays and turn it into much. 

You clearly miss the point. Nevis was a Hamilton find. I am also looking forward to seeing what Jeffcoat can do but as of right now, he has proven nothing. Knox has been here for over a year now and could not beat out Hurl for a starting job.