3 stars + HH BC edition.

[Eternal optimist]

17 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

Think they probably both saw something BC was doing leaving the middle of the field open plus took the shot thinking the D was spent and the O was not moving the ball (no first downs and 2 turnovers in 6 possessions after the 2 TDs to start the half).  O'Shea didn't give much detail but said Medlock had the green light if he saw the key they were looking for.  Does that mean something from film study they had on for the whole game?  Or on the sideline tonight?  Or that punt specifically?

I still don't understand how you make that call on 3rd and 15 though. Trick plays inherently won't work 100% of the time, but even if Jones makes that catch, he still has to get 15...

[do or die]

5 straight 2 and outs, followed by the INT.

Real killer instinct in crunch time, alright.....

 

[Brandon]

58 minutes ago, do or die said:

5 straight 2 and outs, followed by the INT.

Real killer instinct in crunch time, alright.....

 

I didn't watch the game... any reason why Harris wasn't carrying the rock eating up time in the 4th quarter?   Was the o-line that bad?

[Mark F]

5 hours ago, do or die said:

5 straight 2 and outs, followed by the INT.

Real killer instinct in crunch time, alright.....

 

yes, I think they even got some good field position.

Any kind of offence would have helped immensely.

I wonder if the play calling is done based on a computer analysis of what works in various situations.

Might be time to ditch the end around.

 

[deepsixemtoboyd]

8 hours ago, Goalie said:

Are we sure it wasnt medlock cuz didnt look like jones was even expecting a pass. 

Definitely true that Jones was not expecting a pass, but MOS does not get off the hook that easy; he absolutely claimed full responsibility for the decision in the post game interview on CJOB, saying he had "green-lighted" Medlock to throw that pass.  And, even if he is just trying to cover for Medlock, the fact that Medlock believes he he has the authority to make that decision as well as the fact that Jones seems to be unaware of what's going on the play; both of these things ultimately fall on the coach. 

And while Kelly Moore was doing his best Bob Irving impersonation – ie. defending all things Bombers – by saying that "if they had made it, we'd all be calling him a genius" (which is sort of like saying I'd be devastatingly handsome if I were only better looking), the reality is that our coach was, once again, employing some very unconventional reasoning to extremely unsuccessful affect.  Was cruelly reminiscent of his decision to attempt a 61 yard field goal in the same facility last year; these absolutely crucial brain farts just keep coming and, I fear, are a sign that he is ultimately not up to the job.

 To whit, the first special-teams gadget play was brilliant. But the decision to go back to the well a second time, particularly at that point in the game at that position in the field, is suggestive, as the realist Doug Brown observed, of the addictive gambler who gets a big win and keeps coming back until he loses it all. 

 The first 3rd down gamble demonstrates MOS to be a very competent special teams coach.  The 2nd third down to gamble demonstrates MOS to be an incompetent head coach. 

[deepsixemtoboyd]

8 hours ago, Eternal optimist said:

1. Darvin Adams - was a beast

2. Special teams - Played well, they had that one terrible fake punt call, but that's a coaching issue not really on the players.

3. Medlock - Hope he doesn't get blamed too much for that miss, I think we've been spoiled by his consistency, and his punts were good. Plus the trick play (the converted one) was all on him.

HH - Harris - When he was used, he was effective. Unfortunately that was never.

I can agree that Darvin Adams was excellent. After that, though, you lose me a little bit…

Medlock's punts were not "good."  They were mostly pretty bad. And he threw the extremely ill-advised third down gamble pass, and he came up short on the game-winning field goal at a distance which is normally quite makable for him.

Don't give me wrong, the whole offence choked away the entire fourth quarter, especially Nichols on that absolutely gawd-awful,  telegraphed pic at the very moment that the best quarterbacks go to work (see exhibit A: Mike Reilley's performance 24 hours earlier).  That said, if Medlock is hanging his head just a little bit this morning, I don't think that's the end of the world. The guy gets big money to be money and has been till now, but that isn't a reason to treat him with kid gloves when he ain't.  And last night he wannit.

Also, we used Harris quite a bit; the question is more in the way we used him. Too many dinks & dunks short of the yardsticks.  I mean, to your point, maybe he should've got more handoffs in the third and fourth quarter… Don't know haven't checked the stats on this… But my main thought is that the other receivers needed to see the ball more, and more down field. 

[Noeller]

Read Tait's post-game report......that failed fake punt is on Jones, but nobody's throwing him under the bus publicly. It's a tough one...if it works, we likely win and everyone's a genius. **** happens. 

[Tracker]

Yeah, Medlock gets pass- he almost single-handedly got us into the playoffs last year. Nichols is becoming a concern, though, but we don't know how much of the blame should fall on the coaches.

[deepsixemtoboyd]

12 minutes ago, Noeller said:

Read Tait's post-game report......that failed fake punt is on Jones, but nobody's throwing him under the bus publicly. It's a tough one...if it works, we likely win and everyone's a genius. **** happens. 

Ok, now read Tait's post game report. Precise responsibility for miscue remains foggy. What remains clear is this: Jones didn't  look for the ball when evidently the ball was coming to him on an absolutely crucial play that the vast majority of head coaches would never have green-lighted in the first place. Responsibility is still, therefore, on both counts on the coach.

 To be more succinct: it didn't work, ergo no one is a genius, and **** has been happening too often.

[Noeller]

You people who only show up after a loss are always a lot of fun...thanks for coming....try the veal, tip your waitress before you go....

[Mr Dee]

Watching this game from strictly a CFL fan's point of view..it was a terrific game. It had everything you wanted in a football game. Lots of great plays.

Lots of drama.

Some yelling at the screen.

Questionable calls.

Motivated performances. 

Good Coaching. Questionable Coaching. And that's on both sides.

Mostly, a head-to-head battle between two QBs who were laying on the line. Lulay had more big plays, but Nichols had the better passing game. Both running backs had very good, hard fought yardage. Two wizard-like OC play calling. It all came down to the wire. The Lions made 1 more play than the Bombers. 

Overall, like I said, from a CFL fan's point of view, it doesn't get much better than this for entertainment.

 

[deepsixemtoboyd]

9 minutes ago, Noeller said:

You people who only show up after a loss are always a lot of fun...thanks for coming....try the veal, tip your waitress before you go....

 I must admit, your retort post made me smile. 

[JuranBoldenRules]

2 minutes ago, Mr Dee said:

Watching this game from strictly a CFL fan's point of view..it was a terrific game. It had everything you wanted in a football game. Lots of great plays.

Lots of drama.

Some yelling at the screen.

Questionable calls.

Motivated performances. 

Good Coaching. Questionable Coaching. And that's on both sides.

Mostly, a head-to-head battle between two QBs who were laying on the line. Lulay had more big plays, but Nichols had the better passing game. Both running backs had very good, hard fought yardage. Two wizard-like OC play calling. It all came down to the wire. The Lions made 1 more play than the Bombers. 

Overall, like I said, from a CFL fan's point of view, it doesn't get much better than this for entertainment.

 

Nichols didn't get a first down for a full quarter.  He absolutely did not have a better passing game, 150 fewer yards.  Don't care too much about completion percentage when you aren't throwing longer than 5 yards most of the time.

[bustamente]

Bombers have perfected the 2nd down need 8 yards throw a 5 yard pass and hope for the best, Lapos play calling makes me scratch my head most of the time. Medlocks punting was terrible, Carmichael cant cover, Hurl was lost most of the time. Thorpe had a nice first game, Adams was a beast , Knox impressed me both on d and special teams and Jeffcoat was making plays and getting a good push. One good fakle one bad fake but in the end BC is a better team atm, on to the next one.

Edited July 22, 2017 by bustamente

[Mr Dee]

16 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

Nichols didn't get a first down for a full quarter.  He absolutely did not have a better passing game, 150 fewer yards.  Don't care too much about completion percentage when you aren't throwing longer than 5 yards most of the time.

And yet, in this game where a CFL fan had to be entertained, only 1 play separated the 2 QBS. Absolutely Nichols had the better passing game, or did I miss what the final score was? That game was not out of reach despite the 1st Q. And who do you think brought the Bombers back in that game?

People are quick to chastise Nichols but give no credit when credit is due.

[deepsixemtoboyd]

34 minutes ago, Noeller said:

You people who only show up after a loss are always a lot of fun...thanks for coming....try the veal, tip your waitress before you go....

 And your father was a hamster and your mother smelled of elderberries 

[Atomic]

Really close game.  I like the way our defence is progressing.  Our DB depth is getting some good experience right now and it will make us a stronger team in the second half of the season.  When Leggett and Johnson are healthy, this will be a very good D.  Brian Walker is a good find and getting experience in different spots is good for Brandon Alexander.  No comment on Carmichael...

Medlock had his worst game as a Bomber and we lost by 3.  He will not have another game like this this season.  Winnipeg gets BC twice at home in the second half and judging by how tight these games are with BC, Winnipeg is bound to win at least one.  Then we'll see them again in the playoffs.

I think it's time to look at getting Flanders on the roster.  Harris has been so good as a receiver, it will not be difficult to get them both on the field at once.  Thorpe and Fogg can return kicks and Lankford can get acquainted with the practice roster.

The loss is deflating but I see a team that is neck-and-neck with the top teams in the West and to be fair we are probably the 4th or 5th best team in the league right now.... and I think that's where lots of us expected them to be.  It's going to be a battle all season but I think this team is up to it.  Just grind it out until playoffs and get hot at the right time.

[Mr Dee]

1 minute ago, Atomic said:

Really close game.  I like the way our defence is progressing.  Our DB depth is getting some good experience right now and it will make us a stronger team in the second half of the season.  When Leggett and Johnson are healthy, this will be a very good D.  Brian Walker is a good find and getting experience in different spots is good for Brandon Alexander.  No comment on Carmichael...

Medlock had his worst game as a Bomber and we lost by 3.  He will not have another game like this this season.  Winnipeg gets BC twice at home in the second half and judging by how tight these games are with BC, Winnipeg is bound to win at least one.  Then we'll see them again in the playoffs.

I think it's time to look at getting Flanders on the roster.  Harris has been so good as a receiver, it will not be difficult to get them both on the field at once.  Thorpe and Fogg can return kicks and Lankford can get acquainted with the practice roster.

The loss is deflating but I see a team that is neck-and-neck with the top teams in the West and to be fair we are probably the 4th or 5th best team in the league right now.... and I think that's where lots of us expected them to be.  It's going to be a battle all season but I think this team is up to it.  Just grind it out until playoffs and get hot at the right time.

I agree with a lot of what you said.

And I'd absolutely love to get Flanders on the field. For example, in last night's game, he would have been a difference maker and definitely would have thrown the Lion's D for a loop. He would be another weapon and teams would have to adjust for him.

[Taynted_Fayth]

20 minutes ago, bustamente said:

Bombers have perfected the 2nd down need 8 yards throw a 5 yard pass and hope for the best, Lapos play calling makes me scratch my head most of the time. Medlocks punting was terrible, Carmichael cant cover, Hurl was lost most of the time. Thorpe had a nice first game, Adams was a beast , Knox impressed me both on d and special teams and Jeffcoat was making plays and getting a good push. One good fakle one bad fake but in the end BC is a better team atm, on to the next one.

agree. At the time of that failed fake punt I was saying how bad Medlocks previous few punts were... like 20-30 yard punts, I wonder if that played a part in why the decision to gamble in your own zone was called... just a lack of trust in medlocks punting at that point. Something seemed off about Medlocks leg strength last night as evident with coming up short on a 50 yard fg as well.

Despite Carmichaels INT. he needs to go. period. I don't care if he's a rookie, he's gettin beat like a dirty rug out on the clothes line so far 3/4 games and constantly.  If we need a stop gap until Bruce Johnson is back then call up Ryan Phillips, he can't be any worse then Carmichael and he will have good knowledge of what the Als (our next opponent) do offensively.

My 3 Stars yesterday were;

Adams

Knox

The onside FG kick (never seen that before)

[JuranBoldenRules]

1 hour ago, Mr Dee said:

And yet, in this game where a CFL fan had to be entertained, only 1 play separated the 2 QBS. Absolutely Nichols had the better passing game, or did I miss what the final score was? That game was not out of reach despite the 1st Q. And who do you think brought the Bombers back in that game?

People are quick to chastise Nichols but give no credit when credit is due.

He had 3 great drives.  That's excellent.  If our D didn't come up huge repeatedly with the field tilted and both D and teams score or set up the offence in the red zone it's a blow out.  Guy needs to find some kind of consistency.

And it was half of the 3rd Q and most of the 4th where we couldn't get a first down. Not exactly clutch.

Edited July 22, 2017 by JuranBoldenRules

[Mr Dee]

11 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

He had 3 great drives.  That's excellent.  If our D didn't come up huge repeatedly with the field tilted and both D and teams score or set up the offence in the red zone it's a blow out.  Guy needs to find some kind of consistency.

And it was half of the 3rd Q and most of the 4th where we couldn't get a first down. Not exactly clutch.

Absolutely not clutch. But nobody is arguing that. And you can discuss the back and forth of the game all you want, because it's true. That still doesn't take away from the game Nichols did play. He had a good game...just not good enough. Will that change? It most certainly can.

[17to85]

Nichols had a good 2 quarters, don't forget they needed the punt block and the return TD off an int to get the points they did. 

2nd and 3rd quarters are the only time this O comes to play this year, 1st and 4th are a wasteland, and I for one blame Lapo with a side of Nichols not being as good as he can be. 

[Mr Dee]

8 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Nichols had a good 2 quarters, don't forget they needed the punt block and the return TD off an int to get the points they did. 

Yes, but the same could be said for any football game where a team benefits from certain plays. 

And yes LaPo could do better, but you have to admit, there were a lot of mixed good plays where the Offence was rolling, where both LaPo and Nichols were on a roll with good play calling and execution.

The trick is to do it for more than half the game.

[JuranBoldenRules]

43 minutes ago, Mr Dee said:

Yes, but the same could be said for any football game where a team benefits from certain plays. 

And yes LaPo could do better, but you have to admit, there were a lot of mixed good plays where the Offence was rolling, where both LaPo and Nichols were on a roll with good play calling and execution.

The trick is to do it for more than half the game.

Consistently executing the basics would be a good start.  

Watching Nichols in the pocket he's clearly struggling with pre-snap reads, either making bad ones or not trusting the ones he's making, and really struggling to account for blitzes (luckily BC only blitzed intermittently).  There's a lot of double clutching and dancing when he isn't under much pressure.  That is a really bad sign.  

He seems to do better when they give him those little quarter rolls to move the launch point and get his shoulders towards his target.  Otherwise he's doing a lot of twisting and tossing some funky inaccurate tosses on anything downfield.  Obviously we can't see film quality footage but I'd assume his indecision and slow release is often leading to the number of checkdowns he's "forced" into.  Simply, the ball has to be moving faster whether they determine it's on Nichols or play calling, and those two can help each other out.

[wbbfan]

1 hour ago, 17to85 said:

Nichols had a good 2 quarters, don't forget they needed the punt block and the return TD off an int to get the points they did. 

2nd and 3rd quarters are the only time this O comes to play this year, 1st and 4th are a wasteland, and I for one blame Lapo with a side of Nichols not being as good as he can be. 

Our whole offense under performs in the 1st n 4th. We see these drastic flashes out of wrs, our OL mashes and keeps the pocket clean, and nichols makes some great reads n passes. Then the rest of the game they look lost. Id say the only 2 players on our O who are on top of their game every snap is harris and dressler. 

Lots of blame to go around the whole offense, It starts and ends with lapo though imo. Though i have never been a fan of plop offenses. I did think he had potential as a HC though, if he could limit his own impact on the offense. 

The half of good football thing seems to affect the D too. though its different as well with them as they often get hung out to dry in the first Q. As a CO i feel the same about hall as plop.  I think MOS is an issue as well. His over the top player friendly / boys club is what enables players to under perform and hardly show up for a half of football at a time. The fact we are competitive and in the mix with how close the league is this year despite spotting teams a half of football every game is just staggering to me. I cant even fathom how good this team would be if it played a full game at a high level.