Coaching and/ or Conditioning?

[DR. CFL]

Mr. Perfect indicated that the Bombers have been out scored 42-9 in the 4th quarter. Curious as to members thoughts? Is this an indication of the level of coaching or conditioning of this team?

[Nickthesizz]

Scared play calling, 50 odd seconds left and they throw what, 4 screen passes and run the ball?

[17to85]

Playing not to lose. Been the MO of Lapo and Hall for years. Try and not **** up rather than trying to extend the lead.

[Mr. Perfect]

58 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Playing not to lose. Been the MO of Lapo and Hall for years. Try and not **** up rather than trying to extend the lead.

Quoted for truth.

[do or die]

For Lapo....3rd time around, with the same MO.

[Guest J5V]

2 hours ago, do or die said:

For Lapo....3rd time around, with the same MO.

Irving was questioned by a fan who asked him why we hired Lapo to run our offense when we had already fired him twice before. Irving had no answer. Neither did Doug Brown. They both just agreed that that was in fact the case. There is that willingness to settle for someone less than the best again. 

[DR. CFL]

The curious aspect of LaPo's rehire at the time was if it was encouraged by upper management at the time. Given the somewhat tenuous status of MOS, ( heaven forbid)  was LaPo perceived as the solution if it was deemed necessary to fire MOS? 

[Guest J5V]

4 minutes ago, DR. CFL said:

The curious aspect of LaPo's rehire at the time was if it was encouraged by upper management at the time. Given the somewhat tenuous status of MOS, ( heaven forbid)  was LaPo perceived as the solution if it was deemed necessary to fire MOS? 

Replacing one mediocre coach with another? Nah!

[DR. CFL]

Not saying I would agree with it.......certainly not......I was afraid it might have happened then. Definition of crazy? Repeating the same thing and expecting a different result.

[CodyT]

6 hours ago, 17to85 said:

Playing not to lose. Been the MO of Lapo and Hall for years. Try and not **** up rather than trying to extend the lead.

I've come around to your thesis 

[blueandgoldguy]

4 hours ago, do or die said:

For Lapo....3rd time around, with the same MO.

Third time 's the charm?

[SpeedFlex27]

That may have been the worst quarter of playcalling by LaPo I've ever seen. That has to change.

[Tracker]

O'Shea and LaPolice deserved a chance to prove themselves and they've had it. (Pun intended).

[B-F-F-C]

In the end. If the offence executed the plays called in the 4th quarter. We win. 

Yes, Lapo went to a more conservative playbook but it would have been good enough to win the game. If the offence execute them. 

[TheSource]

3 minutes ago, B-F-F-C said:

In the end. If the offence executed the plays called in the 4th quarter. We win. 

Yes, Lapo went to a more conservative playbook but it would have been good enough to win the game. If the offence execute them. 

 

Yes,

And I look at this differently, I think the conservative play calling is a result of the coaches not having confidence in the players on the field, not the other way around. They did try to go deep a few times in the 4th but the receivers had no separation from the DBs and Nichols was forced to overthrow each of the 3 attempts.

Bombers have one of the worst receiving corps in the League right now in my opinion, based on performance, not on what people here think they have on paper. That has to factor into the coaching decisions.

Some people identify with players on the team and are loyal to the players which leads to overestimating the value of their players relative to the rest of the league. I'm not loyal to players, but to the team. The team needs to make some tough decisions to get better, IMHO.

 

[SpeedFlex27]

14 minutes ago, B-F-F-C said:

In the end. If the offence executed the plays called in the 4th quarter. We win. 

Yes, Lapo went to a more conservative playbook but it would have been good enough to win the game. If the offence execute them. 

I think the offense did execute but the playcalling wasn't the right calls. Continually dumping passes yards short of a first down expecting the receivers to make the first down everytime when surrounded by Lions defenders was unrealistic. As was handing the ball off on 2nd & 5 or 6 expecting a first down each time as well. It was shitty & cowardly playcalling. Playing not to win but not to lose. And how did that work out??

Edited July 23, 2017 by SpeedFlex27

[SpeedFlex27]

4 minutes ago, TheSource said:

 

Yes,

And I look at this differently, I think the conservative play calling is a result of the coaches not having confidence in the players on the field, not the other way around. They did try to go deep a few times in the 4th but the receivers had no separation from the DBs and Nichols was forced to overthrow each of the 3 attempts.

Bombers have one of the worst receiving corps in the League right now in my opinion, based on performance, not on what people here think they have on paper. That has to factor into the coaching decisions.

Some people identify with players on the team and are loyal to the players which leads to overestimating the value of their players relative to the rest of the league. I'm not loyal to players, but to the team. The team needs to make some tough decisions to get better, IMHO.

 

Still, I'd rather we go down all guns a blazing than the way we meekly did Friday night with no fight at all. Darvin Adams showed he can be a playmaker if Nicholls throws him the ball. TJ Thorpe shows potential. We also need to throw more to Denmark which we haven't done. Our passing game seems more horizontal than vertical. We don't challenge the field as much as other teams. LaPo is all about short controlled passing & spreading out the field. It means longer drives & if we get behind it's harder to come back from a deficit. Unlike BC, Edmonton or Calgary who have no issue slinging it downfield. I'm not a fan of this type of passing game as it is too conservative. Especially trying to protect a lead as then it's even more conservative as we found out.

[SpeedFlex27]

We have the playmakers at receiver, I believe. We just have to use them differently but don't expect any changes.

[TheSource]

2 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Still, I'd rather we go down all guns a blazing than the way we meekly did Friday night with no fight at all. Darvin Adams showed he can be a playmaker if Nicholls throws him the ball. TJ Thorpe shows potential. We also need to throw more to Denmark which we haven't done. Our passing game seems more horizontal than vertical. We don't challenge the field as much as other teams. LaPo is all about short controlled passing & spreading out the field. It means longer drives & if we get behind it's harder to come back from a deficit. Unlike BC, Edmonton or Calgary who have no issue slinging it downfield. I'm not a fan of this type of passing game as it is too conservative. Especially trying to protect a lead as then it's even more conservative as we found out.

 

I do agree with what you're saying. If you are going to go 2 and out anyways, you might was well do so taking shots down the field. Also that INT by Nichols at the end would have been less damaging if it was thrown 30 yards down the field.

 

I don't like the uber-conservative offence either. It is chickensh*t, and also not very entertaining.

After all, at the end of the day, this whole thing should be about entertainment, particularly on a team that does not have the horses to ever win it all.

 

[Eternal optimist]

I think the problem is more an issue of scouting players, obviously with rookies it can be difficult to tell exactly what you have until they develop... but when you look at a guy like Alex Singleton sniffed out last year by the 'Stamps, and look at some of the rookie 'talent' the Bombers have dug up in recent years (i.e. Carmichael). You have to think that scouting, combined with O'Shea's tendency to keep guys with tenacious work ethic with sub-par abilities, only compounds the issue.

That said, I don't think the sky is falling just yet, we played B.C. with several key injuries on the defensive side of the ball, I think we'll be okay once we get some of our starters back.

 

Personally, of more concern I think is the fact that twice this season, Nichols has had the game in his hands (B.C. on Friday and in the Calgary loss) and he's thrown a pair of absolutely backbreaking picks. In both cases, you could practically hear the balloon pop for the Blue & Gold.

[SpeedFlex27]

22 minutes ago, TheSource said:

 

I do agree with what you're saying. If you are going to go 2 and out anyways, you might was well do so taking shots down the field. Also that INT by Nichols at the end would have been less damaging if it was thrown 30 yards down the field.

 

I don't like the uber-conservative offence either. It is chickensh*t, and also not very entertaining.

After all, at the end of the day, this whole thing should be about entertainment, particularly on a team that does not have the horses to ever win it all.

 

Right now, we don't have the horses to win it all. We can only hope we eventually do. Scouting is a concern.

[17to85]

20 minutes ago, Eternal optimist said:

I think the problem is more an issue of scouting players, obviously with rookies it can be difficult to tell exactly what you have until they develop... but when you look at a guy like Alex Singleton sniffed out last year by the 'Stamps, and look at some of the rookie 'talent' the Bombers have dug up in recent years (i.e. Carmichael). You have to think that scouting, combined with O'Shea's tendency to keep guys with tenacious work ethic with sub-par abilities, only compounds the issue.

That said, I don't think the sky is falling just yet, we played B.C. with several key injuries on the defensive side of the ball, I think we'll be okay once we get some of our starters back.

 

Personally, of more concern I think is the fact that twice this season, Nichols has had the game in his hands (B.C. on Friday and in the Calgary loss) and he's thrown a pair of absolutely backbreaking picks. In both cases, you could practically hear the balloon pop for the Blue & Gold.

Yeah but they've recruited a lot of successful DBs here so holding Carmichael against them isn't exactly fair, considering he's not the only rookie starting in the secondary right now and we are also missing 2 of our usual linebackers. The back end on D is patchwork right now, is it any wonder they're hit and miss? I would focus my recruiting talk much more on places like receiver because this group hasn't really dug up anyone spectacular there, though I did like the bit we saw from Thorpe against BC so maybe there is some hope there. 

[Eternal optimist]

1 minute ago, 17to85 said:

Yeah but they've recruited a lot of successful DBs here so holding Carmichael against them isn't exactly fair, considering he's not the only rookie starting in the secondary right now and we are also missing 2 of our usual linebackers. The back end on D is patchwork right now, is it any wonder they're hit and miss? I would focus my recruiting talk much more on places like receiver because this group hasn't really dug up anyone spectacular there, though I did like the bit we saw from Thorpe against BC so maybe there is some hope there. 

Fair point, half the time I don't know what I'm talking about anyways. Hopefully the poor defensive play is a result of key injuries, and not a greater issue.

[17to85]

57 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Still, I'd rather we go down all guns a blazing than the way we meekly did Friday night with no fight at all. Darvin Adams showed he can be a playmaker if Nicholls throws him the ball. TJ Thorpe shows potential. We also need to throw more to Denmark which we haven't done. Our passing game seems more horizontal than vertical. We don't challenge the field as much as other teams. LaPo is all about short controlled passing & spreading out the field. It means longer drives & if we get behind it's harder to come back from a deficit. Unlike BC, Edmonton or Calgary who have no issue slinging it downfield. I'm not a fan of this type of passing game as it is too conservative. Especially trying to protect a lead as then it's even more conservative as we found out.

It seems to me that our offense either throws short passes or deep passes, I don't think we ever really challenge those intermediate routes that so many other teams have success with. It's either up to Dressler or Harris to make some tacklers miss on the short throws or Adams to come down with a deep ball along the sidelines. 

[SpeedFlex27]

2 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

It seems to me that our offense either throws short passes or deep passes, I don't think we ever really challenge those intermediate routes that so many other teams have success with. It's either up to Dressler or Harris to make some tacklers miss on the short throws or Adams to come down with a deep ball along the sidelines. 

It's all part & parcel with what is wrong with our playcalling under LaPo.