Wiecek's Article

[Guest J5V]

1 minute ago, Mr Dee said:

Oh for f...'s sake. I don't give a ship if he thinks he's a Bomber fan. He's relinquished his membership as far as I'm concerned. You don't agree..fine, stand by your fan.

Elitist? I consider the Bombers and their fans as working class, but they're not the ones who have dumped on the team and their Coach, are they?  Can you tell me who is the one who has? 

And tell me why not any of the other putrid Coaches we've had over the years? 

No, you and him have a grudge against O'Shea, as is your prerogative, fine, but let's not get that mixed up with BS he's spewing. 

Has Noeller been going to your place and stealing all your coffee? 

[kelownabomberfan]

Those who have gone before me have done an excellent job of pointing out what a giant joke this article is and thanks for that, but I just wanted to point out one of my pet peeves.  I get it when posters here spell Jeff Reinebold's name wrong (sort of get it) but this dimwit is supposed to be a professional writer. Who edits this paper?  How can they misspell Reinebold's name in an article?  Talk about sloppy AND stupid.  

Edited August 4, 2017 by kelownabomberfan

[TheSource]

On 8/2/2017 at 11:42 PM, Old Bomber Fan said:

Well sorry for going against the flow on this one....I think he hit it on the head. I have never liked MOS's attitude from the get go. He is far too stubborn to be a head coach responsible for making decisions that will help the team win be it either during the game and game decisions or manpower decisions. The points that were made were spot on regarding his unwillingness to sit Willy, sit other starters who were underperforming etc. It was only when he was told to give Nichols a shot after a terrible 1-4 start and then by luck inserted a few rookies due to injury namely Loffler and Fogg that the team started to move. I believe there was also a move to insert Bond on the OL line but I may be wrong with that one. Point is he cannot make a manpower decision effectively and his game decisions are terrible.

He is one of the reasons I did not keep my season tickets after many years.....it was obvious what the outcome was going to be and I didn't want to spend 1 1/2 hours driving into the city to watch what I KNEW was going to be another loss and not a close one at that.....then if by luck it was a close one to be lost with a bone head decision by the head coach, only to have to wait over 1/2 hour to leave and face another 1 1/2 hour drive back home. And to top it all off I couldn't leave early because the shuttle bus didn't leave until it was full near the end of the game. I won't mention IGF which is another story of its own. Suffice to say, Mr MOS was a huge reason why I stopped going. Do I follow them on TV, yes I do but I have the privilege to turn it off when I chose. Do I wish them well, certainly do and will always but reality is they will never win a Grey Cup or get to it with MOS as head coach......so the article is bang on....at least in my opinion

 

I think your opinion is valid in some respects, but you have to give credit to the turn around that the team made last year, and also to the fact that they have been competitive in all the games this year and have also shown a better record this year for this point in the season.

That said, I think the progress of the team has been too slow in getting to the current level of competitiveness over the last 4 years. This is unfortunate, because there is a time limit until the current core group of players start to move to other teams both through free agency. The team has amassed some reasonably good Canadian talent with the high draft picks in the many years that they were not competitive, but I'd worry about the ability to hold on to those players if we project that it may take 3 or 4 years to become good enough for a "legitimate" run at the Grey Cup (where the team would be considered a favorite and not an underdog/dark horse). The quality of import talent is still not quite good enough, and I feel that this is holding back the team, possibly along with some issues with the coaching strategies.

MOS is far from the worst coach they have had, although I do not see him ever being in the same elite category of a Cal Murphy, Wally Buono, Don Matthews, etc. I don't think he deserves the disrespect he has received by some of the media, but between MOS and Walters, I'm just not convinced you will ever have what it takes to make a perennial Grey Cup contender like Calgary, Edmonton, BC, etc.

The verdict is still out on this team, and I think this year they are at a crossroads. They could just as easily regress to under .500 as they could achieve an equal finish to last season. However, with the West being as competitive as it is, I don't think it is likely they will finish better than the record last year, and I doubt they have what it takes to make it past the first game of the playoffs unless they start to bring more players in to improve the talent level at a few key positions. So far, they have not been willing to do this, so likely what you see now is what you get until next year - probably good enough to be a little over .500.

As others have mentioned, you can always get hot at the right time, and anything is possible, but realistically, this team is still not good enough to be considered a favorite to win the Cup. You can't be competitive every year in the CFL without a defense that can consistently hold the opposition to under 350 yards and/or 30 points a game on most evenings. As the old saying goes, defense wins championships. We are not there yet, and similar to you, I think it is a bit more than just getting our guys "coached up" / practiced to execute the current plan. I think both the plan and the personnel still need some continuous improvement.

[Nash00]

14 hours ago, wbbfan said:

They dont give up in the 4th. But a team that rides the momentum and disappears for half the game isnt exactly quit free. Still making it interesting at worst in the clutch is far better then what we were subjected to prior to the mos era. 

I'm not so sure it is a quit issue as it is a scheme and execution issue. That falls on guys like Nichols, MOS, Lapo and Hall to fix, which I think they can. The issues that the team has now are flesh wounds compared to what MOS inherited when he got here.

[Atomic]

14 hours ago, J5V said:

Define "convinced me". Would you be convinced if he said something like "I think you're wrong and that it'd be in the best interests of yourself and the football club to do it my way"?

Let me put it another way, if a player told O'Shea that he thought his way was right and he wasn't convinced that what O'Shea was telling him to do was the right way so he wasn't going to do it, how long do you think that player would be playing for coach?

Whatever happened to respect for authority?

Depends on the player, doesn't it?  We've all heard of star players getting coaches fired.

As for respect for authority... I don't give out respect based on an org chart.  If someone hires me to do a job, I do it in the way we agreed upon within the parameters I was given when hired.  For a coach, that means the authority to pick who plays and who doesn't.  The rules don't change halfway through because the boss is unhappy.  And if I was ever given the "my way or the highway" ultimatum.... I'm walking out the door.

[Guest J5V]

25 minutes ago, Atomic said:

Depends on the player, doesn't it?  We've all heard of star players getting coaches fired.

It does but would that apply here? Doubt it. What player here could get O'Shea fired? Further, I don't see O'Shea as a star coach who could get Walters or Miller fired either. I really do believe that if Mike is told what to do, he'll do it, whether he likes it or not. 

29 minutes ago, Atomic said:

As for respect for authority... I don't give out respect based on an org chart.  If someone hires me to do a job, I do it in the way we agreed upon within the parameters I was given when hired.  For a coach, that means the authority to pick who plays and who doesn't.  The rules don't change halfway through because the boss is unhappy.  And if I was ever given the "my way or the highway" ultimatum.... I'm walking out the door.

You might be able to pull that off and land another job. I know if my boss gave me that ultimatum, I'm capitulating. If Mike O'Shea walks away I don't see him walking into another HC gig. Especially if he's seen as being non-compliant with the wishes of his employer. He is a stubborn, somewhat smarmy son-of-a-gun. Standing on your pride is often the precursor to a fall.

[WBBFanWest]

7 minutes ago, J5V said:

It does but would that apply here? Doubt it. What player here could get O'Shea fired? Further, I don't see O'Shea as a star coach who could get Walters or Miller fired either. I really do believe that if Mike is told what to do, he'll do it, whether he likes it or not. 

You might be able to pull that off and land another job. I know if my boss gave me that ultimatum, I'm capitulating. If Mike O'Shea walks away I don't see him walking into another HC gig. Especially if he's seen as being non-compliant with the wishes of his employer. He is a stubborn, somewhat smarmy son-of-a-gun. Standing on your pride is often the precursor to a fall.

Are you suggesting that Pride goes before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall?  How very biblical of you!

[Atomic]

15 minutes ago, J5V said:

It does but would that apply here? Doubt it. What player here could get O'Shea fired? Further, I don't see O'Shea as a star coach who could get Walters or Miller fired either. I really do believe that if Mike is told what to do, he'll do it, whether he likes it or not. 

You might be able to pull that off and land another job. I know if my boss gave me that ultimatum, I'm capitulating. If Mike O'Shea walks away I don't see him walking into another HC gig. Especially if he's seen as being non-compliant with the wishes of his employer. He is a stubborn, somewhat smarmy son-of-a-gun. Standing on your pride is often the precursor to a fall.

You're disagreeing with yourself here.  You recognize how stubborn MOS is but you expect that he would capitulate to demands from Miller.  I don't think those demands would ever come and I don't think O'Shea would EVER allow someone else to dictate how he does his job.  It's just not who he is.  You think MOS cares if he lands another HC job?  He didn't even get into coaching until Jim Barker called him and asked him to be his STC.  Trust me, O'Shea would be fine.  He'd be hired as someone's STC in a heartbeat and he'd probably have HC opportunities not long after.

[Noeller]

12 hours ago, J5V said:

Has Noeller been going to your place and stealing all your coffee? 

Hit up Costco and loaded up on Kirkland k-cups....we're all good, here!

[Super Duper Negatron]

Just for some contrast, Hamilton's article about the comeback is fantastic. Reminded me of the one about a big goal line stand years and years ago...can't remember the writer or the game that it was about. Might have even been Randy Turner?

[TBURGESS]

We're not talking about Mike O'Shea the HC who finally got us back into the playoffs. We're talking Mike O'Shea, first time Head Coach, with 2 losing seasons under his belt, the second worse than the first, no playoff games, at 1-4 on the last year of his first contract. If fired, that guy gets a STC job again, but won't be interviewing for HC jobs for quite a while.

When your boss or you bosses boss tells you to do something, most people just do it. It doesn't often come in the form of an ultimatum, do it or else you're fired. More like this is what I want done and/or this is the way I want it done. 

[Atomic]

1 hour ago, TBURGESS said:

When your boss or you bosses boss tells you to do something, most people just do it.

Does O'Shea strike you as being like "most people"?

1 hour ago, Super Duper Negatron said:

Just for some contrast, Hamilton's article about the comeback is fantastic. Reminded me of the one about a big goal line stand years and years ago...can't remember the writer or the game that it was about. Might have even been Randy Turner?

Gotta hand it to Jeff, that was a hell of a read.  Thanks for pointing that out.

[SPuDS]

1 hour ago, TBURGESS said:

We're not talking about Mike O'Shea the HC who finally got us back into the playoffs. We're talking Mike O'Shea, first time Head Coach, with 2 losing seasons under his belt, the second worse than the first, no playoff games, at 1-4 on the last year of his first contract. If fired, that guy gets a STC job again, but won't be interviewing for HC jobs for quite a while.

When your boss or you bosses boss tells you to do something, most people just do it. It doesn't often come in the form of an ultimatum, do it or else you're fired. More like this is what I want done and/or this is the way I want it done. 

you do realize other people do look at ALL intangibles beyond just his losing record, right?  people consider what he was brought into, the mess that was left..

 

actually, I think you might be the only one who chooses to solely consider the negatives of his coaching career thus far and lambaste him for it lol.

[TBURGESS]

20 minutes ago, Atomic said:

Does O'Shea strike you as being like "most people"?

Does O'Shea strike you as someone who doesn't understand the chain of command or someone who would ignore those above him?

[SPuDS]

4 minutes ago, TBURGESS said:

Does O'Shea strike you as someone who doesn't understand the chain of command or someone who would ignore those above him?

no to the first and yes to the second.  I don't think he would ignore what the management was saying but I think he WOULD say, "while I appreciate what you are saying, this is how I want to go about this.."  and do his own thing.  If hes anything, he is one to stick to his guns.

[Atomic]

6 minutes ago, TBURGESS said:

Does O'Shea strike you as someone who doesn't understand the chain of command or someone who would ignore those above him?

Ignore?  No.  I think he would listen to arguments.  And I'm sure there are daily discussions with both Walters and Miller.  But ultimately the decision would be his, and his alone.  I don't believe there was ever a directive from above stating "Willy gets one more chance and then he's done" and MOS went along with it even though he disagreed.  I don't believe that happened.

[Old Bomber Fan]

Let me be the first to congratulate the Big Blue on their win in Ottawa. Like so many others it was nip and tuck til the final whistle and I guess that is what MOS is preaching. It would be nice to be able to sew up a victory prior to the last play but hey as many have said a win is a win. What I did like about this game and I believe noted several times is it was the most complete game to date. I especially appreciated seeing the offense do something that they don't do often....throw downfield. While the completion rate wasn't that good ( I don't have a stat just an observation) it nonetheless kept the defense honest and did open up some stuff underneath. I also appreciated seeing the 2 back system. Why waste a valuable asset on the bench when he is much more valuable on the field and I don't think Harris minds in the least.

Still not totally sold on the secondary and very unsure of Carmichael at all. Let's see what happens this weekend against the worst team in the league standing wise. Ottawa was the second worst in records so we have beaten all eastern teams we have played, just one more to go. Should we win then we will have beaten every team below us in the standings and lost to everyone who is above us. I'm thinking that will have to change if we want to progress beyond the first switchover playoff game as if it doesn't we won't get any further. I'm still not convinced we will end up better than 11-7 but for the time being they have won more than they have lost and that can't be bad. Good on them.

[kelownabomberfan]

if they Bombers can beat Hamilton this weekend then they are only 3 to 4 wins away from the playoffs.   Just win another five in a row and cruise until November!

I would like to take a break from these last play of the game wins and actually get some garbage time in so that Dom Davis can get some reps.  The Fever is the only other QB we get to see and he's only in on short yardage and the odd other play where he's told to Justin Goltz it around the end and scramble for a few yards.

[Guest J5V]

2 hours ago, Old Bomber Fan said:

Let me be the first to congratulate the Big Blue on their win in Ottawa. Like so many others it was nip and tuck til the final whistle and I guess that is what MOS is preaching. It would be nice to be able to sew up a victory prior to the last play but hey as many have said a win is a win. What I did like about this game and I believe noted several times is it was the most complete game to date. I especially appreciated seeing the offense do something that they don't do often....throw downfield. While the completion rate wasn't that good ( I don't have a stat just an observation) it nonetheless kept the defense honest and did open up some stuff underneath. I also appreciated seeing the 2 back system. Why waste a valuable asset on the bench when he is much more valuable on the field and I don't think Harris minds in the least.

Still not totally sold on the secondary and very unsure of Carmichael at all. Let's see what happens this weekend against the worst team in the league standing wise. Ottawa was the second worst in records so we have beaten all eastern teams we have played, just one more to go. Should we win then we will have beaten every team below us in the standings and lost to everyone who is above us. I'm thinking that will have to change if we want to progress beyond the first switchover playoff game as if it doesn't we won't get any further. I'm still not convinced we will end up better than 11-7 but for the time being they have won more than they have lost and that can't be bad. Good on them.

Yes winning more than you lose is never bad. Not a perfect game by our Blue but not bad at all. They don't want to blow an engine so they are just easing the opposition along and then edging them out at the final whistle. No sense wasting energy. Save the best for last.