I Hate Prevent Defenses

[BigBlue]

Those soft end of game schemes let the offence throw short passes underneath the deeper umbrella ... just don't let them complete a long pass : that would be too terrible for words

Of course last night Montreal's prevent D allowed us a chance to win the game, so thanks.

The prevent D is why 3 TDs can be scored in the last 3 minutes of a CFL game. It's why the last possession of the first half usually results in a score.

I find it unreasonable that a defense that has been mostly tough as hell against the other team's offense should give that up to go soft just because it is nearing the end of a half.

Can some one wake Ritchie Hall up to the realities of the soft prevent, please?

 

 

[Nash00]

I don't like it either. You choose between a potential home-run against or death by a thousand papercuts. That's how we got MTL last night, Nichols just took what they gave and kept moving the chains. It's how BC (and everyone else) get us in the 4th quarter all the time.

I'm a little surprised the Alouette game plan wouldn't be to make a guy like Nichols force the ball deep downfield and take away the short/intermediate stuff (much like BC did last week when they had 3 drop deep and everyone else rallied to the ball underneath). You need to throw into some pretty tight windows to move the ball and with Dressler out that is one less weapon for our offence.

[17to85]

Aiding the Bombers was the fact that guys like Thorpe were able to take those short catches and fight hard for extra yards to keep the chains moving. You make the short throws you gotta make sure you get extra yards out of it otherwise you still wind up punting. 

[Eternal optimist]

In most situations, the Prevent D in that situation, up by multiple scores, minimal time on the clock... works. If it didn't work...  teams wouldn't play it and would do other things as you're suggesting.

[wbbfan]

No one likes it. Cept our coaching staff. smh. 

[Taynted_Fayth]

I'm really starting to think you don't like much in terms of the bombers and/or cfl.

Other than the around the league thread and reg season bomber thread, most of your threads are negative towards the bombers and/or the refs;

• GDT vs Mtl starts with stating we have average NI's and how DD > Nichols..etc
• What would it take to fire a Coordinator
• Causes: 2 & Outs, late game fading, jekyll & hyde
• is it time to professionalize refs - complaining about refs that you thanked in another thread for gifting the bombers a win from the heavens

 

Now I'm not saying people shouldn't bring up the negatives, or put their head in the sands,  but you've really become habitually fixated on only the negative side of things

[do or die]

Summation of the Prevent Defense:

"Well, we have played well, up to now.... and have a pretty good lead.....so lets just move in another direction."

 

[BigBlue]

3 hours ago, Eternal optimist said:

In most situations, the Prevent D in that situation, up by multiple scores, minimal time on the clock... works. If it didn't work...  teams wouldn't play it and would do other things as you're suggesting.

totally disagree ... NFL CFL doesn't matter .... D Coordinators don't want to be embarrassed by a big play with a lead in hand and they insanely change strategy from what has been working ... its the stuff comebacks are made of 

[Eternal optimist]

1 minute ago, BigBlue said:

totally disagree ... NFL CFL doesn't matter .... D Coordinators don't want to be embarrassed by a big play with a lead in hand and they insanely change strategy from what has been working ... its the stuff comebacks are made of 

You're missing my point - comebacks do happen obviously; it is part of the game. That said, how many other times has a team been playing with the lead, set up a prevent D and it has worked? It's boring, its passive, and it chews up the clock. When run properly, it wins games. Just like anything else there's a fine line between playing with the lead and playing too conservatively. You argue the Als lost that game playing Prevent D... I argue the Lions won last week by holding us to a 50-yard field goal.

[Goalie]

26 minutes ago, BigBlue said:

totally disagree ... NFL CFL doesn't matter .... D Coordinators don't want to be embarrassed by a big play with a lead in hand and they insanely change strategy from what has been working ... its the stuff comebacks are made of 

NFL CFL does matter cuz in the NFL the last 2 minutes for a team with a lead = 4 kneel downs to end it. 

[JuranBoldenRules]

5 hours ago, BigBlue said:

Those soft end of game schemes let the offence throw short passes underneath the deeper umbrella ... just don't let them complete a long pass : that would be too terrible for words

Of course last night Montreal's prevent D allowed us a chance to win the game, so thanks.

The prevent D is why 3 TDs can be scored in the last 3 minutes of a CFL game. It's why the last possession of the first half usually results in a score.

I find it unreasonable that a defense that has been mostly tough as hell against the other team's offense should give that up to go soft just because it is nearing the end of a half.

Can some one wake Ritchie Hall up to the realities of the soft prevent, please?

 

 

That makes no sense.  If a prevent is executed it should take so long for the offense to drive downfield that there'd be less scoring.  What you're referring to is poor execution, shitty tackling.

[BigBlue]

"I'm really starting to think you don't like much in terms of the bombers and/or cfl."

Taint as your name implies, you have been on my case for a while, like an annoying negatron .... I am not sure why you are sitting on some kind of self anointed throne of self righteous sitting in judgement of those who do not fit your narrow minded world

"Other than the around the league thread and reg season bomber thread, most of your threads are negative towards the bombers and/or the refs;"

Simply untrue .... just highlighting the issues the issues of the day, avoiding Captain Obvious

"GDT vs Mtl starts with stating we have average NI's and how DD > Nichols..etc"

I actually said our Canadians were better but in your prejudice you got it backwards .... happens all the time to those with a tainted perceptual field who see what they expect is there instead of what is there ....

As to DD vs. Nichols, do you allow people to form opinions different than yours about who might be a better QB? Durant is a proven star, Grey Cup winner, and possibly coming into his best years or maybe he is about to collapse in a heap like Kevin Glenn .... but he played well last night .... Nichols has been the subject of much criticism on this board even as  he is winning (can't throw the long pass, too slow picking out or finding secondary receivers, etc ad nauseum).... I think Nichols is decent ... just believe DD is a notch or two better .... how does expressing a judgment make me a negatron Mr. TF?

"What would it take to fire a Coordinator" was a piece of sarcasm in reaction to the constant never ending bellyaching theme of so many threads about how awful our two coordinators are .... the conclusion jumpers never did engage their IQ to see what I was actually doing ... I have to concede that a subtle tongue in cheek does not seem to work on this board ... opinion sledge hammers seem to be the requirement

BTW at no point was I looking for a coordinators head ... unless and until ,of course, every poster here demands it

"Causes: 2 & Outs, late game fading, jekyll & hyde" was a simple attempt to organize and analyze what is ailing our club ... to find a theme or cause for all the little things going wrong, why our performance has been so inconsistent ... how is such a search anything but normal discussion ? search does not equal negatron except in the eyes of a tainted negatron

"is it time to professionalize refs - complaining about refs that you thanked in another thread for gifting the bombers a win from the heavens":

well giving thanks for a blessing is not exactly negativity, is it ... unless of course you hate God .... my thread was a simple putting forth a solution to one of the CFL's biggest blemishes .... an attempt to be constructive and helpful, not negative

"Now I'm not saying people shouldn't bring up the negatives, or put their head in the sands,  but you've really become habitually fixated on only the negative side of things" ... I do believe you have it backwards: you are the one who has "become habitually fixated on only the negative side of things"

You see Mr TF it is you who has the warped mindset that interprets in negativity, that is, you are out there with some kind of an evangelistic grudge against me.

Norman Vincent Peale never said disregard all facts and analysis to achieve The Power Of Positive Thinking ... there is a way to success and it involves thinking your way through  through a problem

So take off your grey lenses and try some rose coloured glasses

And if you see Pollyanna say Hi to her for me

 Like this

[Nash00]

44 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

That makes no sense.  If a prevent is executed it should take so long for the offense to drive downfield that there'd be less scoring.  What you're referring to is poor execution, shitty tackling.

Case in point - MTL trying to tackle Nichols on the second last play. He should have been down at or near the LOS.

[BigBlue]

45 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

That makes no sense.  If a prevent is executed it should take so long for the offense to drive downfield that there'd be less scoring.  What you're referring to is poor execution, shitty tackling.

well look how many first downs we got under that umbrella last night

[JuranBoldenRules]

Just now, BigBlue said:

well look how many first downs we got under that umbrella last night

Look at how many tackles they missed.  Stupid penalties they took.

[Eternal optimist]

I thought the essays were due Monday?

[do or die]

1 hour ago, BigBlue said:

"I'm really starting to think you don't like much in terms of the bombers and/or cfl."

Taint as your name implies, you have been on my case for a while, like an annoying negatron .... I am not sure why you are sitting on some kind of self anointed throne of self righteous sitting in judgement of those who do not fit your narrow minded world

"Other than the around the league thread and reg season bomber thread, most of your threads are negative towards the bombers and/or the refs;"

Simply untrue .... just highlighting the issues the issues of the day, avoiding Captain Obvious

"GDT vs Mtl starts with stating we have average NI's and how DD > Nichols..etc"

I actually said our Canadians were better but in your prejudice you got it backwards .... happens all the time to those with a tainted perceptual field who see what they expect is there instead of what is there ....

As to DD vs. Nichols, do you allow people to form opinions different than yours about who might be a better QB? Durant is a proven star, Grey Cup winner, and possibly coming into his best years or maybe he is about to collapse in a heap like Kevin Glenn .... but he played well last night .... Nichols has been the subject of much criticism on this board even as  he is winning (can't throw the long pass, too slow picking out or finding secondary receivers, etc ad nauseum).... I think Nichols is decent ... just believe DD is a notch or two better .... how does expressing a judgment make me a negatron Mr. TF?

"What would it take to fire a Coordinator" was a piece of sarcasm in reaction to the constant never ending bellyaching theme of so many threads about how awful our two coordinators are .... the conclusion jumpers never did engage their IQ to see what I was actually doing ... I have to concede that a subtle tongue in cheek does not seem to work on this board ... opinion sledge hammers seem to be the requirement

BTW at no point was I looking for a coordinators head ... unless and until ,of course, every poster here demands it

"Causes: 2 & Outs, late game fading, jekyll & hyde" was a simple attempt to organize and analyze what is ailing our club ... to find a theme or cause for all the little things going wrong, why our performance has been so inconsistent ... how is such a search anything but normal discussion ? search does not equal negatron except in the eyes of a tainted negatron

"is it time to professionalize refs - complaining about refs that you thanked in another thread for gifting the bombers a win from the heavens":

well giving thanks for a blessing is not exactly negativity, is it ... unless of course you hate God .... my thread was a simple putting forth a solution to one of the CFL's biggest blemishes .... an attempt to be constructive and helpful, not negative

"Now I'm not saying people shouldn't bring up the negatives, or put their head in the sands,  but you've really become habitually fixated on only the negative side of things" ... I do believe you have it backwards: you are the one who has "become habitually fixated on only the negative side of things"

You see Mr TF it is you who has the warped mindset that interprets in negativity, that is, you are out there with some kind of an evangelistic grudge against me.

Norman Vincent Peale never said disregard all facts and analysis to achieve The Power Of Positive Thinking ... there is a way to success and it involves thinking your way through  through a problem

So take off your grey lenses and try some rose coloured glasses

And if you see Pollyanna say Hi to her for me

 Like this

Not convinced......need more detail.

[Fatty Liver]

3 hours ago, do or die said:

Not convinced......need more detail.

Ouch, too many words hurts my brain.

[Brandon]

What worries me is that last year the excuse for the defense was that we had no pressure on the QB....  this year (last game) we had a tonne of pressure on the QB yet he still could make a lot of short first down throws.  

 

[Mark F]

9 hours ago, Brandon said:

What worries me is that last year the excuse for the defense was that we had no pressure on the QB....  this year (last game) we had a tonne of pressure on the QB yet he still could make a lot of short first down throws.  

 

Durant played very well I thought. Made  quite a few very accurate throws while under pressure.

Edit . Ed Tait:  

Quote

 

Darian Durant completed 27 of 35 (77.1 percent) for 348 yards with two TDs and one interception.

The Bombers did manage to get some pressure on Durant, sacking him five times – twice each by Jamaal Westerman and Jackson Jeffcoat with one from Cory Johnson – while Jeffcoat also picked off a pass on Montreal’s first possession.

 

Five sacks. Holy moley.

two sacks and an int for one guy.

defence is going to be very good once the injured guys are back.

Edited July 29, 2017 by Mark F
added something from ed taits article.

[bearpants]

Edmonton probably should've used a better prevent defense on this play...

 

[17to85]

2 hours ago, bearpants said:

Edmonton probably should've used a better prevent defense on this play...

The great part is that they had 2 guys there who should have at least been able to make a tackle, and they both had their heads so far up their asses it never even occured to them that there might be a catch. 

[pigseye]

I'd say we have a consensus then, it's players just screwing up, so why keep them? Why just replace them with better players that don't screw up or better yet start with players that don't screw up.

Edited August 2, 2017 by pigseye
Added to the post

[Mark H.]

On 2017-07-28 at 9:07 PM, Nash00 said:

Case in point - MTL trying to tackle Nichols on the second last play. He should have been down at or near the LOS.

Maybe. But if you watch the highlights, he only needed to make one guy miss at the LOS. 

[Nash00]

8 hours ago, Mark H. said:

Maybe. But if you watch the highlights, he only needed to make one guy miss at the LOS. 

True, but nothing about watching Nichols run makes me think he is Michael Vick 2.0. The defense needs to make that play, especially with the clock ticking and Winnipeg with all the momentum. A tackle there gives the Bombers one more play from 15 yards out instead of 1, a much easier task for the defense.