Commissioner gets it right

[Nickthesizz]

Just now, Sard said:

As far as I'm concerned, the only part of RTP that should really be challengeable is the head shot, or hitting below the knees.  Anything else is timing and is a judgement call which as you say are the problem.

I still feel like that's a judgement call, when slowed down you can call the penalty on every play. I feel like these calls should be made in real time and at game speed.

[Jacquie]

4 hours ago, Taynted_Fayth said:

I like the change, but I hope there is still a loss of time out if it's an unsuccessful challenge. I think the current format (or previous if this change is immediately in effect) was your first challenge was a freebie the 2nd cost you if wrong

I'm guessing you didn't read the whole article.

Quote

They will still need to have a timeout to initiate a challenge. And if their challenge is not successful, they will still lose a timeout.

 

[Jacquie]

4 hours ago, Mr Dee said:

One of the ongoing problems the review system promoted, unintentionally, was the constant 'fishing' for unrelated calls. This will drastically reduce that.

As for the calls on the field and the video reviews by the C'Mon Centre, well, as if that is going to change overnight. You're always going to get iffy calls by the refs, and you're going to get calls that are misconstrued by the Centre, OR by the fans.

This change by the League Office doesn't solve every issue, but unlike past administrations, they heard the fans, and talked to the teams involved, and are acting upon a sore spot.

There is nothing to say that further remedial action won't be taken in the near future.

 

Well said. 

Generally speaking, I think a lot of fans think they know the rules better than they actually do. 

[Arnold_Palmer]

I feel like two challenges was good. The referring is so inconsistent we pretty much need two. I would have scraped challenging PI all together though. 

[Eternal optimist]

6 hours ago, Saidin said:

You still have your challenge to do that.  Just don't waste it earlier.  

This is the very definition of victim shaming!

[Mr Dee]

I just saw a video clip of the media talking with Maas after practice. He told them, right off the bat, NO QUESTIONS ABOUT CHALLENGES! Some tried to re-phrase a question and Maas cut them off completely. NO QUESTIONS...etc. 

He was adamant and curt, somewhat like Austin used to be like. Maas is becoming easier to disike each week.

I heard from MOS, Buono, Jones, Austin and Campbell, and all are in favour of this new change. Don't know about Dickenson, Chapdelaine and Trestman..

[WBBFanWest]

2 minutes ago, Mr Dee said:

I just saw a video clip of the media talking with Maas after practice. He told them, right off the bat, NO QUESTIONS ABOUT CHALLENGES! Some tried to re-phrase a question and Maas cut them off completely. NO QUESTIONS...etc. 

He was adamant and curt, somewhat like Austin used to be like. Maas is becoming easier to disike each week.

I heard from MOS, Buono, Jones, Austin and Campbell, and all are in favour of this new change. Don't know about Dickenson, Chapdelaine and Trestman..

Maybe he was mad because he had to stand facing the wind and was having trouble not lifting off.  

[Mr Dee]

Ear's the audio clip of Jason Maas...with the no comments...

https://omny.fm/shows/ched/aug-2-jason-maas-and-mike-reilly-comment-on-the-ch?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+omnycontent%2FdVON+(CHED-+Eskimos)

Edited August 3, 2017 by Mr Dee

[Mr Dee]

?‍?Two of the smartest men GM wise and Coaching wise, wanted specific changes to the challenge process:

"Buono endorsed the decision by the league Wednesday to limit the number of challenges that can now be thrown by he and his colleagues."

"“(It’s) fishing I don’t like and the fishing that’s killing our game,” he said on his regular weekly appearance on TSN 1040’s 3 Down Radio. “Let’s us as a league say to the coach ‘you can’t fish because we’re not going to let you challenge’.”

 "Buono said he and Calgary counterpart John Hufnagel have tag-teamed to change some aspects of the challenge process but though the two didn’t have enough support from others on the rules committee to effect additional change is satisfied progress has been made."

http://3downnation.com/2017/08/02/reduced-challenge-fishing-endorsed-lions-coach/

[Guest J5V]

13 hours ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

Well look at our games this season.  We had to challenge a catch for a first down that clearly and blatantly incomplete against BC.  So now O'Shea would have to gift that first down to BC to preserve his challenge for later? Bullshit.  They got it wrong again, the old cut off the nose to spite the face change.

Ah, but maybe that's what Mr. Ambrosie wanted -- to put the pressure back on the officials to make the right calls on the field. Let's see what he does with the officials when they start affecting the outcome of games with their poor calls. 

[Mr. Perfect]

This is just SO typical of the CFL. Make an amendment that doesn't address the actual root of the problem. How does this help? One challenge a game for a league where refs botch many calls a game. This creates more errors, nevermind the fact it's usually 50/50 that the command centre comes to the right decision. A terrible product was just made worse. Comical but not surprising given the league.

[Sard]

16 hours ago, Gotmilt said:

I still feel like that's a judgement call, when slowed down you can call the penalty on every play. I feel like these calls should be made in real time and at game speed.

There's no judgement call when it comes to a head shot or hitting below the knees on the QB, either it happened or it didn't.  The timing is irrelevant so full speed or slowed down, either it happened or it didn't which is why I think that would be a valid challenge.

[ddanger]

I'm in total agreement with reducing the number of challenges. Refereeing and umpiring at the professional levels are all about experience and judgement. They see the play in real time, and make a call. Yes sometimes the player can mask an incomplete pass, fake a trip or a head shot, and a ref might go for it. These things happen. It's really easy for us fans with the benefit of slow motion and multiple camera angles to review and criticize.

I for one was sickened by all the challenges by the coaches, and then the lengthy review process on all turnovers and scoring plays. It's just totally killing the CFL game, and turning it into one huge slow motion replay. Letting the players play, and the ref's ref is all good. Players will make mistakes, and referees will make wrong calls, it happens.

[17to85]

17 minutes ago, Sard said:

There's no judgement call when it comes to a head shot or hitting below the knees on the QB, either it happened or it didn't.  The timing is irrelevant so full speed or slowed down, either it happened or it didn't which is why I think that would be a valid challenge.

I would agree with you expect that just last week the c'mon centre allowed after review Montreal to get all up in Nichols face. 

The intention may be for it to be black and white but the c'mon centre cares not for rules. 

[Sard]

4 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

I would agree with you expect that just last week the c'mon centre allowed after review Montreal to get all up in Nichols face. 

The intention may be for it to be black and white but the c'mon centre cares not for rules. 

Fair point... The c'mon centre definitely has to improve in order for the challenge system to work properly.

[Goalie]

11 hours ago, Mr Dee said:

?‍?Two of the smartest men GM wise and Coaching wise, wanted specific changes to the challenge process:

"Buono endorsed the decision by the league Wednesday to limit the number of challenges that can now be thrown by he and his colleagues."

"“(It’s) fishing I don’t like and the fishing that’s killing our game,” he said on his regular weekly appearance on TSN 1040’s 3 Down Radio. “Let’s us as a league say to the coach ‘you can’t fish because we’re not going to let you challenge’.”

 "Buono said he and Calgary counterpart John Hufnagel have tag-teamed to change some aspects of the challenge process but though the two didn’t have enough support from others on the rules committee to effect additional change is satisfied progress has been made."

http://3downnation.com/2017/08/02/reduced-challenge-fishing-endorsed-lions-coach/

Buono was one of the guys fishing quite constantly tho. 

[Mr Dee]

I disagree. Wally was one of the last ones to even use the Coaches' challenges and he was learning on the go. He wasn't very successful at the start. Now, if you're talking about this year, Buono was going with the flow, but you have to remember, it was actually Lulay who was influencing Buono. Wally's no dummy and if other teams have an advantage, it won't be long before he steps up.

[17to85]

yeah Buono is not the type of guy to not take advantage of any edge he can get even if he disagrees with it. 

[SpeedFlex27]

22 hours ago, rebusrankin said:

I like this for cutting down on the fishing expeditions some coaches have conducted (see Dickensen), dislike it for the fact that the refs have missed blatant calls (Manny's non catch we had to challenge). Overall would have prefered a better command centre and refs.

Jones, Maas & Buono are the worst for doing that. Dickenson has done it but not as much as the other 2 guys. Buono just does it when a great play happens against his defense. it has no rhyme or reason. This is a great decision. I'd get rid of all challenges as well as the IC rule. And I agree with only using replay at full speed. 

[Mr Dee]

4 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Jones, Maas & Buono are the worst for doing that. Dickenson has done it but not as much as the other 2 guys. Buono just does it when a great play happens against his defense. it has no rhyme or reason. This is a great decision. I'd get rid of all challenges as well as the IC rule. And I agree with only using replay at full speed. 

Oh so very wrong about Dickenson. That team is primed for fishing expeditions. They are the leaders in that regard. Their games feature players coming up all the time with signals to the bench, to throw the challenge flag, especially on contact issues. They are ever so ready to do, so that must mean they have spotters ready to troll.

In fact, they have been accused of "staging" contact on defenders, so that they have backup clips to 'fish' for.

[SpeedFlex27]

3 minutes ago, Mr Dee said:

Oh so very wrong about Dickenson. That team is primed for fishing expeditions. They are the leaders in that regard. Their games feature players coming up all the time with signals to the bench, to throw the challenge flag, especially on contact issues. They are ever so ready to do, so that must mean they have spotters ready to troll.

In fact, they have been accused of "staging" contact on defenders, so that they have backup clips to 'fish' for.

You may be right. I haven't watched them much this season to really comment further. I just remember Maas from last year & the chip he had on his shoulder. Always throwing the challenge flag. And Wally always seemingly throws a challenge flag when something bad happens against his defense. 

[blitzmore]

1 hour ago, Mr Dee said:

Oh so very wrong about Dickenson. That team is primed for fishing expeditions. They are the leaders in that regard. Their games feature players coming up all the time with signals to the bench, to throw the challenge flag, especially on contact issues. They are ever so ready to do, so that must mean they have spotters ready to troll.

In fact, they have been accused of "staging" contact on defenders, so that they have backup clips to 'fish' for.

Yes...last week when Calgary was up 100 to nothing  Dickinson was still challenging...err I mean fishing

[WBBFanWest]

18 hours ago, Mr Dee said:

Ear's the audio clip of Jason Maas...with the no comments...

https://omny.fm/shows/ched/aug-2-jason-maas-and-mike-reilly-comment-on-the-ch?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+omnycontent%2FdVON+(CHED-+Eskimos)

 

[Guest J5V]

6 hours ago, Mr Dee said:

Oh so very wrong about Dickenson. That team is primed for fishing expeditions. They are the leaders in that regard. Their games feature players coming up all the time with signals to the bench, to throw the challenge flag, especially on contact issues. They are ever so ready to do, so that must mean they have spotters ready to troll.

In fact, they have been accused of "staging" contact on defenders, so that they have backup clips to 'fish' for.

Yes it's part of their game plan, fully integrated. They are a very well coached team and exploit all avenues to success.

[JuranBoldenRules]

Here's my proposal:

-Up to 3 coaches challenges per team.  If a coach loses a challenge, they are done for the game.  Need a timeout to challenge.  If a coach tosses a challenge flag to challenge something that isn't reviewable they are done, lose their timeout and are assessed a 10 yard objectionable conduct penalty.

 

-Coaches can challenge anything but penalties.

-Review of penalties (PI, illegal contact, UR, RTP) can only be initiated by the Command Centre.

-The Command Centre can initiate a review (not just scores/turnovers) at any time to correct significant on-field missed calls, wrong calls and improper application of rules.

Edited August 3, 2017 by JuranBoldenRules