Matt Nichols, Elite quarterback?

[JCon]

1 minute ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

When did he have lots of turnovers? Give examples. 

2015. During the games he played. When he threw the ball to the other team.

[SpeedFlex27]

4 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

I think Jennings still has to prove himself a bit too. Yeah he's had early success but what happens if he is in a situation without the best group of receivers in the league (in my opinion) coming down with all those bombs he tosses up. 

You can't compare what Nichols has had to work with here since he arrived to what Jennings has had in BC. Give Matt those receivers  & see what he'd accomplish. 

Edited August 11, 2017 by SpeedFlex27

[SpeedFlex27]

1 minute ago, JCon said:

2015. During the games he played. When he threw the ball to the other team.

Check his TD to INT ratio & we'll talk. He's 17-5 as a reg season starter. 

[Atomic]

1 minute ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Check his TD to INT ratio & we'll talk. He's 17-5 as a reg season starter. 

I believe his record is 21-12 with a 59:38 TD:INT ratio.

[SpeedFlex27]

Just now, Atomic said:

I believe his record is 21-12 with a 59:38 TD:INT ratio.

Who? Nichols or Jennings?? If you're talking Nichols then he's 17-5 with the Bombers  is what TSN quoted last game. So he may even be 18-5 now. I don't care what the guy did in Edmonton.  

[JCon]

6 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

You can't compare what Nichols has had to work with there since he arrived to what Jennings has had in BC. Give Matt those receivers  & see what he'd accomplish. 

I'm talking about his career and how's he's developed. Look at the crew he had in 2015 in Edmonton but he had lots of interceptions. Now he doesn't because he's learned.

You can hate on Jennings but he's still young and learning.

[Atomic]

Just now, SpeedFlex27 said:

Who? Nichols or Jennings?? If you're talking Nichols then he's 17-5 with the Bombers  is what TSN quoted last game. So he may even be 18-5 now. I don't care what the guy did in Edmonton.  

He is 14-5 since taking over from Drew Willy but he was 2-5 for Winnipeg in 2015 (5-2 with Edmonton).  His career record is 21-12.

[JCon]

Just now, SpeedFlex27 said:

Who? Nichols or Jennings?? If you're talking Nichols then he's 17-5 with the Bombers  is what TSN quoted last game. So he may even be 18-5 now. I don't care what the guy did in Edmonton.  

So, you don't care about his history, you're just comparing right now? What has that have to do with a player learning and developing, which was the entire point of the post?

[SpeedFlex27]

6 minutes ago, JCon said:

So, you don't care about his history, you're just comparing right now? What has that have to do with a player learning and developing, which was the entire point of the post?

Okay then, how come you don't talk about the injuries Nichols had in Edmonton then & how it held him back eventually costing him a starting spot. Funny how that doesn't t count??? Jennings is arthletic & has a strong arm. Yeah, he's athletic but he has a brick between his ears for a brain. He may eventually become an elite but so far from what I've seen he's not there yet & may never get there. he's not elite. he is a qb who has a dominant receiving corps who make him look 10 times better than he is. 

Edited August 11, 2017 by SpeedFlex27

[SpeedFlex27]

3 minutes ago, Atomic said:

He is 14-5 since taking over from Drew Willy but he was 2-5 for Winnipeg in 2015 (5-2 with Edmonton).  His career record is 21-12.

Okay, that's fine & thanks for the stats. Still pretty damned good considering how far we've come as a team since then. Do you not agree? We were in the wilderness with Willy at the helm. Matt put the Bombers on his back which was something Willy never could do. He's the right qb for this team now whether he's elite or not. 

[Atomic]

1 minute ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Okay, that's fine & thanks for the stats. Still pretty damned good considering how far we've come as a team since then. Do you not agree? We were in the wilderness with Willy at the helm. Matt put the Bombers on his back which was something Willy never could do. He's the right qb for this team now whether he's elite or not. 

What?  I like Nichols.

[SpeedFlex27]

1 minute ago, Atomic said:

What?  I like Nichols.

I know you do. No problem  & i'm not criticizing you at all. Just saying how well Matt's done compared to the kid in BC who has always had a stellar group of receivers to throw to yet continually screws up but is thought to be elite. LOL!. Nichols never had that luxury. 

[Jpan85]

If stays on pace he will have 5271 yds 33 TD 12 int

Jennings last year was 5226 27 15

Reily 5554 28 12

Mitchell 5385 32 8

Reily and Mitchell both played 17 games

 

 

[Arnold_Palmer]

Scrub Nichols is only on pace for 5000 yards 33 touchdowns and 12 INT, and a 12-6 record. god he sucks. Can't we do better?

[peggars]

1 minute ago, Arnold_Palmer said:

Scrub Nichols is only on pace for 5000 yards 33 touchdowns and 12 INT, and a 12-6 record. god he sucks. Can't we do better?

#TradeForGlenn

[wbbfan]

Reily and blm are still the elite of the league.  Hes still 6th in passing yards and 4th in passing tds. He still puts up some awful halfs of production. But he has certainly moved up in the 2nd tier of qbs. Lulay is on the rise, and ray has risen up but still comes in at the 2nd tier. But Rays injuries and lulays surrounding talent + ratio bring em back to earth a bit. 

Trevor harris is in that 2nd tier. Hes like the anti nichols. Gets the stats, team still doesnt win.  Those two are neck and neck. 

Elite tier; blm, and reily.

2nd tier; harris, nichols, and ray.

3rd tier; Durant. Lulay , jennings

The, "they still have jobs?"(for now) tier.  Glenn, and zach collaros.  

 

[wbbfan]

50 minutes ago, Arnold_Palmer said:

Scrub Nichols is only on pace for 5000 yards 33 touchdowns and 12 INT, and a 12-6 record. god he sucks. Can't we do better?

the 1/3rd mark. 7 passers are on track to pass 5k yards. Its early, and the new PI era has conflated things. Other fun on track fors, lulay on track for 6600 passing yards in 18 games of this production. harris on track for 36 tds 9ints, 5500 yards and 3 wins.  

Harris on track for 849 rushing with 120 catches for 954 yards! 

How many sacks is victor butler on track for, and how many was he on track for at the 1/6th point?

Can we do better? 4th best passer in a 9 team league.  Even if nichols steps up and cements him self into the elite tier, I dont think that gets us in the play offs in the west this year. Cross over hype.  

[BigBlueFanatic]

4 hours ago, Atomic said:

He is 14-5 since taking over from Drew Willy but he was **2-5 for Winnipeg in 2015**  (5-2 with Edmonton).  His career record is 21-12.

I entreat the court to consider that our sophomore kicker (he of the clutch trick kicks and the not-clutch in game misses) was completely cursed; he single handedly lost a home game vs Edmonton where Nichols repeatedly put them into scoring position, only to have Lirim miss what... six field goals?!  I have to look back but I'm sure there were other close losses due to either kicking or the Etch-a-sketch D making opposing offences look all-time.

[SpeedFlex27]

3 hours ago, BigBlueFanatic said:

I entreat the court to consider that our sophomore kicker (he of the clutch trick kicks and the not-clutch in game misses) was completely cursed; he single handedly lost a home game vs Edmonton where Nichols repeatedly put them into scoring position, only to have Lirim miss what... six field goals?!  I have to look back but I'm sure there were other close losses due to either kicking or the Etch-a-sketch D making opposing offences look all-time.

He also missed at least one convert that game as well. Then didn't face the media & O'Shea had to talk to the media making excuses why he wasn't there. The last game he ever played for the Bombers, I believe. He certainly has bounced back since having made 25 FG's for the Argos this season & having had a strong season last year. But he couldn't have pulled off that onside kick on an attempted FG vs the Lions or short kickoff vs the Als. Medlock is a much more talented & athletic kicker than Hajrullahu but things have worked out well with the Argos for him. 

[Mark F]

Bruce Arians
 

Quote

 

Finding the perfectly made quarterback is impossible, but especially in this year’s draft. If the Arizona Cardinals decide to draft one – whenever it may be – they’ll be looking for someone who closest fits the bill of the ideal Arians Quarterback.

“It really starts here [Arians points to his head] and here [he points to his heart],” he said. “If you’ve got a guy who’s got grit and can lead, you can probably live with his skill level."

 

Another interesting thing he said:

To Arians, a quarterback’s brain is the hardest part to evaluate. It’s a take-it-or-leave-it scenario, Arians said. Quarterbacks either have the smarts or they don’t.

“Being able to decipher the information: What’s my protection? Am I hot? Do I have a sight adjustment weak side? What’s the coverage? Who do I throw to in this coverage? That all happens in 1.5 seconds. If you can’t process that information, you probably can’t play.”

 

Edited August 12, 2017 by Mark F
puncutation

[SpeedFlex27]

6 hours ago, Mark F said:

6 hours ago, Mark F said:

Bruce Arians
 

Another interesting thing he said:

To Arians, a quarterback’s brain is the hardest part to evaluate. It’s a take-it-or-leave-it scenario, Arians said. Quarterbacks either have the smarts or they don’t.

“Being able to decipher the information: What’s my protection? Am I hot? Do I have a sight adjustment weak side? What’s the coverage? Who do I throw to in this coverage? That all happens in 1.5 seconds. If you can’t process that information, you probably can’t play.”

 

Bruce Arians
 

Another interesting thing he said:

To Arians, a quarterback’s brain is the hardest part to evaluate. It’s a take-it-or-leave-it scenario, Arians said. Quarterbacks either have the smarts or they don’t.

“Being able to decipher the information: What’s my protection? Am I hot? Do I have a sight adjustment weak side? What’s the coverage? Who do I throw to in this coverage? That all happens in 1.5 seconds. If you can’t process that information, you probably can’t play.”

 

Arians has Carson Palmer as his starter who is 38 years old. He never drafted Palmer, the Bengals did. Arians has been HC for AZ a number of years now & certainly must have had opportunities to draft a qb that would someday take over from the aging veteran. Yet, who have the Cardinals chosen? No one as far as I can tell. That Linley guy in Ottawa played for Arians & even got onto the field when Palmer was injured but really did nothing in his time in Arizona. So, with all due respect to Arians, who is supposed to be a qb whisperer, why haven't the Cardinals drafted a qb that he could have developed during that time?  Why hasn't Arians got the heir apparent ready for when Palmer retires? Whether it was  2014 or 2017, if Carson Palmer goes down, the Cardinals are hooped. So, he can talk all he wants. He makes valid points but I don't see anyone he has ready to go. 

Edited August 12, 2017 by SpeedFlex27

[wbbfan]

On 8/11/2017 at 10:31 AM, JCon said:

Everyone is working from their own definition of elite. Define 'elite' first.

This is a big point. Personally I have trouble remembering a time when the league had 3 what i would call elite QBs. I certainly dont remember a time that had more then that. But I think you gotta set the break point high, and based on individual performance.  I think if you have to question or debate if a QB is elite, they almost certainly arent. No argument over ACs run as an elite qb etc. 

Edited August 12, 2017 by wbbfan

[Mark F]

1 hour ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

I don't see anyone he has ready to go. 

Maybe take a look at his past coaching record... the QB's he has worked with over the years, and how they've done.

Edited August 12, 2017 by Mark F

[wbbfan]

7 hours ago, Mark F said:

Bruce Arians
 

Another interesting thing he said:

To Arians, a quarterback’s brain is the hardest part to evaluate. It’s a take-it-or-leave-it scenario, Arians said. Quarterbacks either have the smarts or they don’t.

“Being able to decipher the information: What’s my protection? Am I hot? Do I have a sight adjustment weak side? What’s the coverage? Who do I throw to in this coverage? That all happens in 1.5 seconds. If you can’t process that information, you probably can’t play.”

 

Physical tools are allways the rage with prospect QBs. But it doesnt matter what tool set you have or how good it is if you cant play the position mentally. Throw on top of that running hurry up offenses and at times or even full time calling plays and its an insane positional demand. 

1 hour ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Arians has Carson Palmer as his starter who is 38 years old. He never drafted Palmer, the Bengals did. Arians has been HC for AZ a number of years now & certainly must have had opportunities to draft a qb that would someday take over from the aging veteran. Yet, who have the Cardinals chosen? No one as far as I can tell. That Linley guy in Ottawa played for Arians & even got onto the field when Palmer was injured but really did nothing in his time in Arizona. So, with all due respect to Arians, who is supposed to be a qb whisperer, why haven't the Cardinals drafted a qb that he could have developed during that time?  Why hasn't Arians got the heir apparent ready for when Palmer retires? Whether it was  2014 or 2017, if Carson Palmer goes down, the Cardinals are hooped. So, he can talk all he wants. He makes valid points but I don't see anyone he has ready to go. 

I dont follow the nfl any more. But to follow that line of questioning I would look back through his era at QBs they have missed the chance to draft. Still have to consider that some guys are just dark horses. And even though you may  be a great coach, on the line of a "whisperer", that doesnt mean you are a scout and able to pro rate what a college guy will be able to do in the pros. We brought in and ran out a bunch of dud OLs with wiley.  Who I think every one can agree is in that top tier of positional coach.  On top of that, you can have a guy with smarts, tool set, drafted by a great scout, under a great coach, but have a severe personality conflict, or guy who isnt very coachable. Its a ton of variables in developing and bringing in talent. Stuff like this may be why our organization has been running through young prospect QBs at a break neck pace. 

[SpeedFlex27]

14 minutes ago, Mark F said:

Maybe take a look at his past coaching record... the QB's he has worked with over the years, and how they've done.

As an asst coach you walk into those situations as the players are already there to coach. Most times. As a head coach, you are always responsible for the personnel you put on the field. You're the Captain. In AZ's case, the GM & Arians work hand in hand to draft players & Arians hasn't done much to improve the qb situation behind Palmer. Not saying he isn't right as he is. I just find it funny he says what Arians says yet he as well as the Cardinals organization can't find anyone to potentially unseat Palmer & he is a QB Whisperer.