Matt Nichols, Elite quarterback?

[wbbfan]

3 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

AC had intelligence going for him as well as being the crafty veteran that he was. if you're a Ti cat fan, it must've been hard to watch him kick your team's ass continually for over a decade after the fans there literally drove him out of town thinking he was finished.

No joke. Weve had a couple guys leave to have good careers else where. Like dave mudge.  But generally in the last 20 ish years id say we got more guys like that then we gave up. Hammer fans must have been soo sore with every throttling they got. 

2 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

I still think we gave upon Gurley too early & he never got a chance to show what he was about when he was a Blue Bomber. I know the RedBlacks cut him but he was pretty sour after his experiences with the Argos & here. That may have been a part of it. 

Yeah cant say if he was just not in a mental state to be productive here. But our team doesnt give new players a ton of chances to show they have what we look for. But if you show it, you can stick around here for a very long time. I wanted more time for gurley too, but it worked out well. At current i like our wr core a lot. Though im hoping denny will find the fire again soon. 

[LeBird]

What's in a tag? He wins for us so what else does matter?

[SpeedFlex27]

7 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

No joke. Weve had a couple guys leave to have good careers else where. Like dave mudge.  But generally in the last 20 ish years id say we got more guys like that then we gave up. Hammer fans must have been soo sore with every throttling they got. 

Yeah cant say if he was just not in a mental state to be productive here. But our team doesnt give new players a ton of chances to show they have what we look for. But if you show it, you can stick around here for a very long time. I wanted more time for gurley too, but it worked out well. At current i like our wr core a lot. Though im hoping denny will find the fire again soon. 

We just don't throw to him enough. He needs to become more involved in the passing game & that is Nichols responsibility. At the same time, he has to be open to throw to. So, don't know if it's Nichols fault he isn't getting the ball to him or he's just not getting open. I think the answer lies somewhere in the middle. 

[wbbfan]

Just now, SpeedFlex27 said:

We just don't throw to him enough. He needs to become more involved in the passing game & that is Nichols responsibility. At the same time, he has to be open to throw to. So, don't know if it's Nichols fault he isn't getting the ball to him or he's just not getting open. I think the answer lies somewhere in the middle. 

Agree, its also plop play calling.  Probably right about it being the mix of a few things.

[SpeedFlex27]

1 minute ago, wbbfan said:

Agree, its also plop play calling.  Probably right about it being the mix of a few things.

One of the best discussions on this thread I've had in a long time. Thanks wbbfan. 

[wbbfan]

5 minutes ago, LeBird said:

What's in a tag? He wins for us so what else does matter?

After the previous dismal run we had people just want the team to insulate it self in winning. Bc, edm, and cal are a good bit better then us right now.  Qb is the easiest and most frequent spot to dote on with credit and blame. Especially with our GC drought people want to look at if nichols is good enough to carry us to a cup win, or good enough to lead us in a gc win.  But also to revel in the teams success. Its a lot better then what we did when struggling lol.

5 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

One of the best discussions on this thread I've had in a long time. Thanks wbbfan. 

agreed and thanks to you , the other posters and OP as well. 

[SpeedFlex27]

MBB can be a pretty mean spirited site unfortunately sometimes with the arguments & name calling that take place but it can also be a place for intelligent discussion which is a lot of fun. Like today. When that happens, MBB can be  a truly great place to talk Canadian football!!  

[Blueandgold]

1 hour ago, Atomic said:

There was a period of time when Calvillo, Ray, and Burris were the elite QBs in the CFL. 

Even if people want to discount Burris, I'd say in 2003 Calvillo, Ray and Dickenson were all elite and guys like Jones and Maas were still good as well.

[JuranBoldenRules]

25 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

No joke. Weve had a couple guys leave to have good careers else where. Like dave mudge.  But generally in the last 20 ish years id say we got more guys like that then we gave up. Hammer fans must have been soo sore with every throttling they got. 

 

Dave Mudge?  He was brutal from 2005 on,  as a Bomber and Alouette.

[SpeedFlex27]

I'm shamelessly showing my age here but what the hey. For all you long time, oldtimer Blue Bomber fans out there, do you remember this guy??  When we talk about players who went elsewhere & had success, he may have been the best Blue Bomber toi have ever done that.  The biggest disappointment I had ever as a fan seeing a Blue Bomber player leave was in 1969 when we traded running back Dave "The Knife" Raimey to the Argos for their backup qb, Wally Gabler. 

I was heartbroken to see him leave.  I  remember being pretty choked when I first heard the news as  he was the only superstar the Bombers had at the time.  Gabler had been a success having got the Argos to the playoffs in 1968 but had lost his starting job to Tom Wilkinson during the 69 Argos training camp. We were desperate for a quarterback as John Schneider & Luther Selbo weren't the answer after struggling thru a horrendous 3-12-1 season in 1968. To make matters worse, the Bombers were humiliated by the Eskimos in their 1969 home opener to the Eskimos 33-0 back in an era when 33 points would seem like 50 or even 60 today.

So, I understand why they traded Raimey. He was in his prime as a running back, a CFL all star as well as a Schenley Award winner. He was one of the last holdovers from the 1965 Blue Bomber team that  made it to the Grey Cup that year. Raimey was my favourite player & still remains that to this day. The way he could run, stop on a dime, shift & make players miss was breathtaking & earned him the nickname "The Knife". 

After he went to the Argos  he played extremely well as their tailback before suffering a season ending knee injury. That necessitated himchanging to corner on defense where he became a CFL Eastern Conference all star & probably extended his career.  But how many players can be an all star running back then switch to corner & become an all star doing that? He was a great player.

Anyway sorry for changing the discussion & back to the original thread subject. Just had to get that in. 

Edited August 14, 2017 by SpeedFlex27

[wbbfan]

1 hour ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

I'm shamelessly showing my age here but what the hey. For all you long time, oldtimer Blue Bomber fans out there, do you remember this guy??  When we talk about players who went elsewhere & had success, he may have been the best Blue Bomber toi have ever done that.  The biggest disappointment I had ever as a fan seeing a Blue Bomber player leave was in 1969 when we traded running back Dave "The Knife" Raimey to the Argos for their backup qb, Wally Gabler. 

I was heartbroken to see him leave.  I  remember being pretty choked when I first heard the news as  he was the only superstar the Bombers had at the time.  He had been a success having got the Argos to the playoffs in 1968 but had lost his starting job to Tom Wilkinson. We were desperate for a quarterback as John Schneider & Luther Selbo weren't the answer after struggling thru a horrendous 3-12-1 season in 1968. To make matters worse, the Bombers were humiliated by the Eskimos in their 1969 home opener to the Eskimos 33-0 back in an era when 33 points would seem like 50 or even 60 today.

So, I understand why they traded Raimey. He was in his prime as a running back, a CFL all star as well as a Schenley Award winner. He was one of the last holdovers from the 1965 Blue Bomber team that  made it to the Grey Cup that year. Raimey was my favourite player & still remains that to this day. The way he could run, stop on a dime, shift & make players miss was breathtaking & earned him the nickname "The Knife". 

After he went to the Argos  he played extremely well as their tailback before suffering a season ending knee injury. That necessitated himchanging to corner on defense where he became a CFL Eastern Conference all star & probably extended his career.  But how many players can be an all star running back then switch to corner & become an all star doing that? He was a great player.

Anyway sorry for changing the discussion & back to the original thread subject. Just had to get that in. 

Thats a crazy switch. Cant even imagine some thing like that happening today. And what a sick nick name LOL!

[Atomic]

[SpeedFlex27]

4 hours ago, wbbfan said:

Thats a crazy switch. Cant even imagine some thing like that happening today. And what a sick nick name LOL!

Yeah, I had to reach far back in the memory banks for that.... 

[Taynted_Fayth]

Just now, Atomic said:

stilla ways to go for Nichols, but he hasn't missed a beat since becoming our full time starter.  There was a play tonight where he looked like he was going to get sacked by an open rusher and he improvised with a quick hitter to i think it was Harris.  That kind of stuff is what the elite do, if he can do that a little more often when pressure comes he'd have my vote for elite

[SpeedFlex27]

3 minutes ago, Taynted_Fayth said:

stilla ways to go for Nichols, but he hasn't missed a beat since becoming our full time starter.  There was a play tonight where he looked like he was going to get sacked by an open rusher and he improvised with a quick hitter to i think it was Harris.  That kind of stuff is what the elite do, if he can do that a little more often when pressure comes he'd have my vote for elite

I think LaPo holds him back with the dinking & dunking throws underneath that just do not extend drives. 

Edited August 13, 2017 by SpeedFlex27

[blueandgoldguy]

He is a decent quarterback, average to slightly above average.  He really leaves you wanting more with all the stalled drives.  Given good field position by special teams and the defense all night and it took forever for him to drive the offense into the red zone and finally score a td.  An elite QB like Reilly (with a healthy esks team, not 20 million injured starters) or Mitchell (see game 2 weeks ago) would have put the game away by the end of the 2nd quarter or early 3rd quarter.  I am quite confident that Jennings, Ray, Franklin, Collaros, maybe even Harris and Durant would perform better then Nichols if given the same Bomber team he was gifted.  It is worth noting that a Nichols-lead offense went nearly 6 quarters without generating a TD (running or passing) against the Ticats and the Redblacks.  This is a cause for concern.

 

I am not saying the Bombers can't win the Grey Cup with Nichols, they certainly can.  However, with the team being behind the 8-ball at the most important position necessitates they be ahead at virtually all others in order to come out ahead.  This Bomber team has noticeable weaknesses at linebacker, and receiver positions and questionable coaching so unless these areas are shored up it is unlikely the team will progress to the point of Grey Cup Champion

 

That is the difference between this team and the 1990 team led by an average QB in Burgess.  That team was great at almost every other position and that is why they won the Grey Cup.

[Mr Dee]

I really wonder about these posts after an important win against a team with its back against the wall. We won the game, we controlled the play,  the  ball was spread around. The guys absolutely wanted to win it and win it for Nichols. 

The thing is, you do not know what any other QB would have done in the same situation, so that point is moot.

just celebrate the win...

[wbbfan]

59 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

I think LaPo holds him back with the dinking & dunking throws underneath that just do not extend drives. 

To an extent I agree he holds back nichols. At the same time he limits the negative impact he can have on the game as well. Nature of the dink and dunk offense. Would be really interesting to see what nichols would do in an offense that was still possession oriented but also first down driven. He and the offense did do  a fantastic job tnite with only 2 2 and outs. Tds in the other side of the field will be a hot topic this week again. But if we can continually drive the field, roll up field position AND protect the ball we will be in good shape. 

1 hour ago, Atomic said:

Its unreal how close the ratios are. The efficiency differential, and YPC are pretty steep. Not to mention how aggressive MR plays.  Still a divide between elite tier and nichols imo. But he is in a great spot. 

16 minutes ago, Mr Dee said:

I really wonder about these posts after an important win against a team with its back against the wall. We won the game, we controlled the play,  the  ball was spread around. The guys absolutely wanted to win it and win it for Nichols. 

The thing is, you do not know what any other QB would have done in the same situation, so that point is moot.

just celebrate the win...

It isnt allways transparent as fans which guys are locker room head cases. Which are legit leaders. When a guy is ride or die and brings that out in his team mates. But its not at all hard to tell that nichols is all of that. He and hardick and a couple others are the quality of leader and player that we havent seen in a long long time. Buck was a blood and guts guy. It seemed like the team around him wanted to bring it every play. But I dont think they had the confidence in him that he could take the game in his hands and win. And this team has that with nichols. 

Not an elite QB in my books, maybe thatll change. But seems like an elite leader at the qb position. 

[Goalie]

What nichols lacks in lets call it skill.. He makes up for in intangibles.. Leadership.. Putting himself in the way in a blowout to get a block for Harris.. The Warrior mentality.. Never say die attitude. Hes not elite but if im ranking QBs in order.. Hes number 3 right now behind Bo and Reilly and IMO.. Thats good enough. 

[Jpan85]

He has bought in to the approach they have. There is no point in being agressive to be agressive and try to force balls in.  

[Rod Black]

Nichols is the very first guy to the bomber offices, everyday. He starts his film work at 5:30 a.m. He's got at least an hour on any other player that comes in at the crack of dawn. He is putting in the work to be successful. That may explain his confident demeanor and minimal mistakes. 

[SpeedFlex27]

1 hour ago, Mr Dee said:

I really wonder about these posts after an important win against a team with its back against the wall. We won the game, we controlled the play,  the  ball was spread around. The guys absolutely wanted to win it and win it for Nichols. 

The thing is, you do not know what any other QB would have done in the same situation, so that point is moot.

just celebrate the win...

This game beforehand scared the bejeebers out of me & I'm so glad we won. 

[Blueandgold]

BLM is a great player but he hasn't been on Reilly's level. He's been about equal to, or slightly better than Nichols in 2017.

[Guest J5V]

37 minutes ago, Rod Black said:

Nichols is the very first guy to the bomber offices, everyday. He starts his film work at 5:30 a.m. He's got at least an hour on any other player that comes in at the crack of dawn. He is putting in the work to be successful. That may explain his confident demeanor and minimal mistakes. 

How can anyone not like this guy?

[FrostyWinnipeg]

I've always thought elite qb's always throw perfect spirals.