Matt Nichols, Elite quarterback?

[Guest J5V]

11 minutes ago, FrostyWinnipeg said:

I've always thought elite qb's always throw perfect spirals.

Michael Bishop? 

[Pete Catan's Ghost]

8 hours ago, Atomic said:

One of the few things he has missing from the other two is the inability to hit the 50/50 pass. 

[Atomic]

32 minutes ago, Pete Catan's Ghost said:

One of the few things he has missing from the other two is the inability to hit the 50/50 pass. 

What's that?  Like the Adams TD?

[WBBFanWest]

1 hour ago, Pete Catan's Ghost said:

One of the few things he has missing from the other two is the inability to hit the 50/50 pass. 

And I'd like to see him do it at least half of the time.

[do or die]

....or fill the glass.

[Taynted_Fayth]

IMO Nichols actually was on point with his 50/50 tosses for the most part last night (with the exception of the toss to lankford  in the endzone...maybe twice?) but have to give credit to Richard Leonard (hammy's DB) for making some nice defensive plays. he was a big part of the other 50 side of the equation and why the passes were not complete

[Ripper]

I see I am one of two people that voted undecided.  He is managing mistakes very well. I don't see any numbers that scream elite from him. He is finding a way to win and the boys believe in him.  I want to see how long he can carry this on. Time will tell.  At this moment he is doing what he needs to do to win.  

[Guest J5V]

18 minutes ago, Ripper said:

I see I am one of two people that voted undecided.  He is managing mistakes very well. I don't see any numbers that scream elite from him. He is finding a way to win and the boys believe in him.  I want to see how long he can carry this on. Time will tell.  At this moment he is doing what he needs to do to win.  

In the last 20 regular season games he is something like 15-5. How big a sample size do you need?

[Mark F]

13 minutes ago, J5V said:

In the last 20 regular season games he is something like 15-5. How big a sample size do you need?

As far as I can tell, once fan/media opinions are set, they don't change much. At this point, no matter how well he plays, Nichols will be  pronounced good enough to win, and no more.

And it does not matter if this is  contrary to stats, personal observation, team opinion.

Eg.... stats atomic posted re Reilly, Nichols, Shmoe Levi. Comments from Andrew Harris. and so on.

It'll always be "yah but he couldn't" ............. (insert your favourite shortcoming here)

re fifty fifty ball, he threw one perfect one yesterday, one that missed by about a foot and a half, and threw at least one perfect one to lankford prior game.

Those don't count for the above reason.

Edited August 13, 2017 by Mark F

[Goalie]

A big part of those 50 50 balls is the receivers ability to come down with the catch also. Nichols only gets help from Adams and to a lesser extent Dressler on those throws. I remember several where our receiver had a hand on the ball but dropped it.. Is that on Nichols? 

[Arnold_Palmer]

The excuses are always there. 

1) well can he win football games (15-5 as a starter in the past calendar year)

2) Well can he produce offense? ( 34.4 points per game)

3) Can HE produce touchdowns? ( 13 touchdowns in 7 games, which is on pace for 33 TD's in the entire season)

4) Can HE protect the football? ( 4 INTS in 7 games  which is on pace for 10 INT the entire season)

Now that you can't argue these things anymore people are using subjective arguments against Nichols. He's a pretty good deep throw passer. The touchdown to Lankford last week, and Adams last night was perfect evidence. You're not always going to hit your man deep but I think Nichols is as good as any QB when he takes his shot down the field. 

[Rod Black]

I remember when Calvillo was an, at best, average QB.  Entirely possible that Bernie develops further and begins achieving milestones. 

Question, what skills does Richard Ray possess that Nichols doesn't have?  

What skills did Jason Maas have that Nichols does have? And I don't mean Maas has better hearing. 

Edited August 13, 2017 by Rod Black

[wbbfan]

1 hour ago, Arnold_Palmer said:

The excuses are always there. 

1) well can he win football games (15-5 as a starter in the past calendar year)

2) Well can he produce offense? ( 34.4 points per game)

3) Can HE produce touchdowns? ( 13 touchdowns in 7 games, which is on pace for 33 TD's in the entire season)

4) Can HE protect the football? ( 4 INTS in 7 games  which is on pace for 10 INT the entire season)

Now that you can't argue these things anymore people are using subjective arguments against Nichols. He's a pretty good deep throw passer. The touchdown to Lankford last week, and Adams last night was perfect evidence. You're not always going to hit your man deep but I think Nichols is as good as any QB when he takes his shot down the field. 

The deep pass is easily his weakness. He misses a lot of deep attempts. He puts deep balls in safe spots to prevent turn overs. The stat from I think last week had us with one of the highest number of deep passes and among the fewest completions. He doesnt have the touch on deep balls. 

[wbbfan]

39 minutes ago, Rod Black said:

I remember when Calvillo was an, at best, average QB.  Entirely possible that Bernie develops further and begins achieving milestones. 

Question, what skills does Richard Ray possess that Nichols doesn't have?  

What skills did Jason Maas have that Nichols does have? And I don't mean Maas has better hearing. 

Ac got into a heavy spread system, and calmed his feet down. He matured with that and turned into the great we knew and feared. 

Ricky ray has touch to every part of the field. And he is a master of momentum passing, throwing short-medium passes on 2nd down that get you first down yardage. Also his teams have used crossing routes to bust seams, and rub routes to open guys up. 

Maas like nichols had that game attitude once he got in. Leadership, and confidence. That said I dont think nichols would sit on the bench for years just to be around the same team. I think hes the kind of guy who wants to play, as it should be. 

[Rod Black]

4 hours ago, wbbfan said:

Ac got into a heavy spread system, and calmed his feet down. He matured with that and turned into the great we knew and feared. 

Ricky ray has touch to every part of the field. And he is a master of momentum passing, throwing short-medium passes on 2nd down that get you first down yardage. Also his teams have used crossing routes to bust seams, and rub routes to open guys up. 

Maas like nichols had that game attitude once he got in. Leadership, and confidence. That said I dont think nichols would sit on the bench for years just to be around the same team. I think hes the kind of guy who wants to play, as it should be. 

Unlike Maas,  Nichols can't fly like a baby elephant. 

Edited August 14, 2017 by Rod Black

[wbbfan]

1 hour ago, Rod Black said:

Unlike Maas,  Nichols can't fly like a baby elephant. 

 wasnt gonna go there but yeah. maas looks like hes related to randy couture. 

[SpeedFlex27]

Hopefully this puts to rest the discussion that Jonathan Jennings is an elite qb.  He is a qb that can throw for a lot of yards & that's it. There's more to being an elite qb than putting up big numbers. 

[Pete Catan's Ghost]

15 hours ago, wbbfan said:

The deep pass is easily his weakness. He misses a lot of deep attempts. He puts deep balls in safe spots to prevent turn overs. The stat from I think last week had us with one of the highest number of deep passes and among the fewest completions. He doesnt have the touch on deep balls. 

I was critical of his long ball accuracy, and agree with you. But having watched Jennings yesterday, I am now very willing to live with this. 

[Booch]

at least when Nichols misses with the long ball it's in a spot where it's either his receiver getting it, or it falls incomplete...unlike Jennings last night where he chucked and had no reason putting it there..double..triple coverage..not leading his receiver properly , or putting it where only receiver can get it. 

Perhaps that is part of his eliteness in that he is smart and doesn't take unnecessary risks if something isn't there and puts his balls in a good spot...point to ponder eh?

I will take his misses all day instead of 4 drive and game killing picks

[peggars]

if we had better 50-50 ball threats like Burnham, Arceneaux, SJ Green etc. it would be a different story as well.   Adams has made some nice 5050 grabs (like on Sat) but for the most part we dont have receiver talent to make those plays so wNichols dosent make those throws.   Wonder what Nichols deep ball stats would be with BCs receiving core.  

[BigBlue]

Could it be that we should be discussing being an elite team instead of whether we have an elite QB ..... the two go together and are basically inseperable .... you can't have one without the other

[Ripper]

17 minutes ago, BigBlue said:

Could it be that we should be discussing being an elite team instead of whether we have an elite QB ..... the two go together and are basically inseperable .... you can't have one without the other

Edmonton is the exception. Reilly is just that good that they are continuing to win in spite of everyone else.

[Jesse]

On 8/13/2017 at 10:38 AM, J5V said:

In the last 20 regular season games he is something like 15-5. How big a sample size do you need?

Play off games.

[Arnold_Palmer]

12 minutes ago, Ripper said:

Edmonton is the exception. Reilly is just that good that they are continuing to win in spite of everyone else.

What? Edmonton has a really nice receiving core. 

[Tracker]

17 minutes ago, Arnold_Palmer said:

What? Edmonton has a really nice receiving core. 

The core is good, but they do have some injuries to receivers that scare the poop out of d-backs.