3 stars plus HH LDC edition.

[sweep the leg]

On 9/3/2017 at 9:48 PM, J5V said:

 The score flatters us because it could have been worse

The score flattered them because it could have been closer. #analysis

[blue_gold_84]

On ‎2017‎-‎09‎-‎03 at 8:16 PM, TBURGESS said:

I forgot how whiny folks get around here when we lose. Can't complain about the refs in this one, they only gave us 4 for 40 while giving the Riders 9-75. Have to complain about something else.

If O'Shea had come up with the 'fake' (In quotes because I don't know for certain if they were fake or not) injuries to slow down the other team, you guys would be going on and on about how smart  he was to use the rules in our favour.

I forget how nauseatingly self-righteous you get when the Bombers lose, playing devil's advocate atop the homemade soapbox.

And why play what if, especially with something as absurd as that claim? O'Shea wouldn't employ greaseball tactics like that, anyway. Poor form as usual.

[TBURGESS]

Try the long banned sleeper play on for size.  O'Shea found a loophole in the rules and used it, much the same as the injury loophole. Everyone around here, me included, loved that he found a way around the rules. I wasn't on the Lion Backers site at the time, but I'll bet they weren't giving O'Shea any slaps on the back for it. In fact, I bet they were pissed. I see the injury plays much the same way. A way around the rules as they exist. It's a very old, almost forgotten, solution, having been used years ago even by us.

[MC]

The Bombers need to completely forget this "fake injury" crap and just play better football.  If they block and tackle better, the Bombers win that game regardless of whether players are doing their best Fred Sanford "this is the big one!  I'm coming to join you Elizabeth!"

[Fatty Liver]

2 hours ago, TBURGESS said:

Try the long banned sleeper play on for size.  O'Shea found a loophole in the rules and used it, much the same as the injury loophole. Everyone around here, me included, loved that he found a way around the rules. I wasn't on the Lion Backers site at the time, but I'll bet they weren't giving O'Shea any slaps on the back for it. In fact, I bet they were pissed. I see the injury plays much the same way. A way around the rules as they exist. It's a very old, almost forgotten, solution, having been used years ago even by us.

The difference is O'Shea contacted the league office and ran it by them before he used it, not sure Jones took that step.

[Booch]

16 hours ago, Old Bomber Fan said:

Unfortunately the "fake" injuries is within the rules as they are now. The fact that an opposition coach, regardless of who it is, decides to use this to slow down our offense and turn that to his advantage is called coaching, sorry. It may not look good, it may put a smudge on the CFL but it is allowed, at least as of now. Did it have any consequence to the outcome of the game, I highly doubt it. We lost that game in the first quarter and were not going to recover. We were outcoached, out prepared, and outplayed from the get go. The offensive and defensive schemes were terrible no other way to say it. Even to the selection of who played and didn't, we were beat from the get go. Keep in mind we have 2 on the injured list they have 17!! and still dominated.

I commented awhile back and everyone accused me of being a wagon jumper etc. All I was saying and continue to say is Sask beat two western division teams handily, we scraped by one of them and lost to the other. They are not far behind us, if at all, and are playing dominating football. We continue to scrape by eastern division teams whom we all know are much weaker than the western division. So now we will see what kind of coaching and team we have in the second half, most of which is against the west I believe. We might do well at the Banjo Bowl, I'm sure hoping we will but time will tell.

Show me somewhere in the rule book that states that a team may use a fake injury to allow for a timeout to 1) stop no huddle, tempo offence, 2) obtain time out to adjust personnel,...

It's a gray area they took advantage of, and sure how can you tell what is fake and what isn't...even tho this was blatantly obvious...but what Coach or team with any character and class has used it as part of their game plan?...I'd say none....just a low ball move by a sad sack organization, with a Hypocrite Coach who piped up to win with some class when Calgary wiped their asses with them.

I would think the Winnipeg team of professionals will keep this in their memory banks and come out Saturday and and play like they know they are capable of. I'm sure that the Cheetah will be used and Sask will try it again, but this time we should snap the ball regardless and trample their injured guy and still go through with the play anyway and cause some real chaos with a screaming 34 000 people making it unbearable to think 

 

[blue_gold_84]

13 minutes ago, Throw Long Bannatyne said:

The difference is O'Shea contacted the league office and ran it by them before he used it, not sure Jones took that step.

Jonestown: "Would it be alright if we countered the Bombers' hurry up offense by faking injuries?"

CFL: "Well, not really. That's not professional or sportsmanlike to do."

Jonestown: "Well, alright. Glad to hear it." **dial tone**

[Mr Dee]

3 hours ago, TBURGESS said:

Try the long banned sleeper play on for size.  O'Shea found a loophole in the rules and used it, much the same as the injury loophole

What the Bombers ran was not the "banned sleeper" play. That play involves passing situations. The TSN crew got that mixed up until they found it was a legal play in field goal situations. 

O'Shea didn't find a loophole, but rather an awareness OF the rules. And, as was mentioned...he double checked.

[Rod Black]

15 minutes ago, Mr Dee said:

What the Bombers ran was not the "banned sleeper" play. That play involves passing situations. The TSN crew got that mixed up until they found it was a legal play in field goal situations. 

O'Shea didn't find a loophole, but rather an awareness OF the rules. And, as was mentioned...he double checked.

I think your friend just likes saying "loophole".

[rebusrankin]

The difference is what MOS did was legal, what Jones did is not, except the refs didn't have the balls to call it.

[Guest J5V]

I fully expected a statement from the league today about the fake injuries. Nothing. 

[Old Bomber Fan]

Actually say what you want but it was not ILLEGAL...morally and ethically wrong yes but not illegal. So he used a "loophole" and exploited it. Again like it or not he was trying to find an edge and he obviously found one which we could not counter in any way. But really did it play a real outcome in the game....I think not. We were done after the first quarter. We garnered a lot of yards and managed to get back to what I TD down but in reality and hopefully this can be accepted by the fans on this site, the game was lost....oh yeah I get it ain't over til the fat lady signs but come on, really? 

Hopefully we will learn for this Saturday...Hopefully the CFL will learn and institute some harsher penalties like has been mentioned already....say out for 6 plays if injured on the field or perhaps a flag for diving similar to the NHL that can be applied once it is determined that the player was in fact faking. Hopefully Jones will learn that it is a detriment to the CFL for that kind of tactic. 

Bottom line though is we got beat....in the first quarter and in fact we only won 1 quarter the third where we scored 3 points to their 0 so I think it is sour grapes to focus in on this as the reason we lost.

Hopefully we will be prepared to play 60 mins of football in all three phases of the game from start to finish and let's hope the coaches will develop a game plan that suggests they know what they are doing and know how to prepare their team to play.

[Guest J5V]

8 minutes ago, Old Bomber Fan said:

Actually say what you want but it was not ILLEGAL...morally and ethically wrong yes but not illegal. So he used a "loophole" and exploited it. Again like it or not he was trying to find an edge and he obviously found one which we could not counter in any way. But really did it play a real outcome in the game....I think not. We were done after the first quarter. We garnered a lot of yards and managed to get back to what I TD down but in reality and hopefully this can be accepted by the fans on this site, the game was lost....oh yeah I get it ain't over til the fat lady signs but come on, really? 

Hopefully we will learn for this Saturday...Hopefully the CFL will learn and institute some harsher penalties like has been mentioned already....say out for 6 plays if injured on the field or perhaps a flag for diving similar to the NHL that can be applied once it is determined that the player was in fact faking. Hopefully Jones will learn that it is a detriment to the CFL for that kind of tactic. 

Bottom line though is we got beat....in the first quarter and in fact we only won 1 quarter the third where we scored 3 points to their 0 so I think it is sour grapes to focus in on this as the reason we lost.

Hopefully we will be prepared to play 60 mins of football in all three phases of the game from start to finish and let's hope the coaches will develop a game plan that suggests they know what they are doing and know how to prepare their team to play.

You play until the final whistle because it ain't over til it's over, and besides, as a professional, you are supposed to play for 60 minutes. You're being paid to do so and it is expected by the league, the fans, the coaches, and the other players. 60 minutes. What did you want them to do after that first quarter? Quit?

If you want to analyze this game you can't hang it all on the coaches and the game plan. Face it, they have some very good players over there and Jones and Murphy have done a very good job bringing in talent in only 2 years. Glenn, who we didn't want, is playing some of the best football of his career and he has some very nice targets to throw to like Roosevelt, Grant, and Carter, another player we didn't want. Their offense might be better than ours and outplayed us. They also have some very good players on defense and they did a much better job shutting us down than we did them. And their special teams players also outplayed our special teams players. Until our players outplay their players, for 60 minutes, we can expect results similar to what we saw on Sunday. 

[kelownabomberfan]

1 hour ago, rebusrankin said:

The difference is what MOS did was legal, what Jones did is not, except the refs didn't have the balls to call it.

the way to end this nonsense is to blow in a play, and once it is blown in, injury or no injury, the play continues.  The Sask player has the option to continue fake writhing in pain or get up and join the play.  After the second time they look completely stupid, this play-acting garbage ends.  But it takes refs with the balls to do it, and that requires league leadership to tell them they have the go ahead.  Randy Ambrosie has impressed me this far, and I hope he continues to do so.

[Old Bomber Fan]

I couldn't agree more with your comments. I simply said in this game we were done after the first quarter. It is hard enough to come back from a 1 score deficit... it is another to come back from a 3 score deficit. I am fully aware of the quality of their players and how they are being prepared for a game scheme wise and emotionally. As I have said before we tend on this site to look at the Bombers as invincible and the only team in the league that makes improvements in the off season whereas all teams are striving for the same thing. Only difference in my humble opinion is other teams seem to be able to climb the mountain much quicker than we do. There have been many rationalizations as to why this is but in my opinion, again humble and to some ignorant, our head office and coaching staff don't seem to recognize quality players when they are presented with them. They are getting better but I think I only have to refer to Denmark to make that point. Thank goodness they brought him back. As for Langford and Adams well I'll take a pass on them both and would rather have had Carter or Muamba or Woods to name a few instead of who we have now. But I will give them credit whomever we talk about...they all play for 60 mins....only problem is they don't seem prepared to play to start the game and that has been going on for over a year now. So who is to blame for bad starts????? anyone's guess I guess...only know when I was coaching I tried to make sure everyone was focused on one objective prior to the whistle....performance and your responsibilities the rest will look after itself

[Old Bomber Fan]

So what you are saying is let him lie in the middle of the play and have players trample over him? Not sure that is protecting the player and I'm sure the CFLPA would have something to say about that. In fact maybe they are the ones who should be spearheading an initiative to stop this stuff. In any event it does have to stop I agree how and by whom, well that is another story at this point.

[17to85]

Here is what it really comes down to, it might be something that has existed for a while and had a blind eye turned to it, like stashing a couple extra players around town, but Jones takes that and makes such a spectacle and mockery of it by going to extreme levels with it that is forces the league to crack down on it. 

 

You do it just a little bit no one bats an eye, you make it a sideshow, as Jones does with most things, and then you are forcing the league to address it. 

[TBURGESS]

Just read Doug Browns article. He spends the first half saying Yah it's done and his coaches have "lightly" suggested doing it. The rest of the article is saying that the Riders are despicable for doing it so often (3 times by his count).

As for contacting the league earlier in this thread... No reason for Jones to contact the league. The rule is clear, 3 plays for an injury. O'Shea contacted the league to see if his understanding that you could have a sleeper play if you didn't throw it, is because the rule isn't clear and it hadn't been done in my living memory.

[Fatty Liver]

I call this game spot the contrarian.

[Rod Black]

Should the #legcramp maneuver occur on Saturday, IGF will break that decibel meter. 

[Rod Black]

57 minutes ago, Old Bomber Fan said:

So what you are saying is let him lie in the middle of the play and have players trample over him? 

Because players obviously like to trample rather than go over or around. 

[JuranBoldenRules]

1 hour ago, Old Bomber Fan said:

So what you are saying is let him lie in the middle of the play and have players trample over him? Not sure that is protecting the player and I'm sure the CFLPA would have something to say about that. In fact maybe they are the ones who should be spearheading an initiative to stop this stuff. In any event it does have to stop I agree how and by whom, well that is another story at this point.

Pretty simple.  You have that time between the end of one play and refs whistling in play on the next one to take a knee if you need medical attention/substitution.  If a guy takes a knee once play is whistled in (the Bombers were over the ball when 2 of the 3 "injuries" after play whistled in occurred) or needs out a team timeout should be used/charged.  No timeout, delay of game penalty.  NFL does this after the two minute warning each half, actually more severely because no matter when the player goes down the team is charged timeout/penalty.

It is extremely rare for a player to go down that late when it is not on purpose.

[pigseye]

Bombers went 2 and out too many times for the hurry up to even have been a factor in the game, people need to get over that and ask why there were so many 2 and outs and not why the riders took 3 knees.

[17to85]

57 minutes ago, pigseye said:

Bombers went 2 and out too many times for the hurry up to even have been a factor in the game, people need to get over that and ask why there were so many 2 and outs and not why the riders took 3 knees.

yeah I can't figure out why people are harping on the defense so much when to my eye they adjusted well but the offense remained stuck in neutral for most of the game. 

[Arnold_Palmer]

14 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

yeah I can't figure out why people are harping on the defense so much when to my eye they adjusted well but the offense remained stuck in neutral for most of the game. 

I think what it comes down to is getting production on first down. Too many times we were in second and long, and the Riders would send three and we'd settle for the Lapo special which would be a 3-4 yard pass on second and long. Our offense is typically at its most dangerous and our play calling is usually really good when its second and medium or second and short. If we don't get that first down production we're not going to put enough points on the board period.