What to do about the D?

[SpeedFlex27]

Just now, Mark F said:

could another defensive coordinator do better than Hall with this bunch of players?

 

Some changes needed but yeah with different schemes, sure. There is talent on D. 

[Floyd]

THIS IS NOT SAM HURL'S FAULT!!!! LEAVE HIM ALONE!!!

Just wanted to be the first to stand up for the Golden Boy.  He's just playing a role, he's a leader out there - like Chris Thorburn.

[Mark F]

horrible tackling, game after game. guys just diving at the ball carrier.

 

Edited September 3, 2017 by Mark F

[Jpan85]

I would've not be opposed to bringing in a vet like Phillips to come play on the field side.

[White Out]

4 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

Well 2 TDs tonight were on 1st and goal situations that the D walked into from a big return and a brutal INT.  If we're looking at a D in terms of points given up, they don't look nearly as bad as if you look at yards.

I think you could start a What to Do About the O thread too because they've been horribly inconsistent and comatose for long stretches of many games which has a pretty negative effect on the whole team.  This D isn't built to carry the team like say our 2011 one was.

We're one of, if not the highest scoring team in the league. nice try tho. 

[SpeedFlex27]

It would be interesting to know what current DC's will be available once the season is finished. One guy I've always liked is Mark Nelson. Love to see him back here. 

[Floyd]

3 receivers over 100 yards ha to our 2016 3rd string QB...

[JuranBoldenRules]

1 minute ago, White Out said:

We're one of, if not the highest scoring team in the league. nice try tho. 

Yet we start at the 40 yard line and kick a FG.

[Brandon]

No chance in hell do they make a change this season.  

We can only hope next season they sign someone who runs a defense that challenges opposing offenses.    Hopefully someone with CFL experience and where we don't give easy short yardage plays every single game.

I don't see why any team wouldn't Ricky Ray dink and dunk on us all game long since it works so easily.  

The last time we had a defense that challenged was with Nelson....

[Mark F]

37 yards rushing for the bombers.

Edited September 3, 2017 by Mark F

[SpeedFlex27]

Just now, JuranBoldenRules said:

Yet we start at the 40 yard line and kick a FG.

O isn't the issue. It's the D. Yeah, we kick a lot of FGs & Lapo calls too many underneath routes that require our receivers to get the first down on their own but we do score points. We can win a championship with our offense. We sure as hell can't with our D & there is the problem. 

[JuranBoldenRules]

Just now, Mark F said:

37 yards rushing for the bombers.

More than 2/3 of passing yards when trailing 3 scores or more.

[JuranBoldenRules]

Just now, SpeedFlex27 said:

O isn't the issue. It's the D. Yeah, we kick a lot of FGs & Lapo calls too many underneath routes that require our receivers to get the first down on their own but we do score points. We can win a championship with our offense. We sure as hell can't with our D & there is the problem. 

All fits together.  All works for or against each other.  None of it worked tonight.

[wbbfan]

28 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

Move Loffler to LB.  He'd be a better WIL than anyone we have and his performance at safety is mediocre IMO.  He makes some hits but also makes some pretty big mistakes.  YAC against us is huge and he's a big part of it, mostly due to lack of footspeed and poor angles, he'd be better closer to the LOS IMO, and that's where he plays mostly anyway, where he tends to end up.  We are basically playing with a secondary short a player by Loffler's tendencies and our scheme.

Need more from a lot of guys.  To me Knox is off the roster, might be by injury anyway.  Hurl needs to play a role to fulfill the ratio but we can't have a useless WIL beside him too.

Scheme to hold guys in the middle of the field, always have guys playing a deep half from the seam out (meaning their priority is middle not sideline, more aggressive cover 2) and increase the difficulty of throws for opposing QB's.  The softest part of our coverage is smack dab down the seam right in front of QB's, way too easy.

The big issue with that swap right now is we'd have to fill the hole at S and 1 more starting NI. I think the switch for loffler would be great though. 

[bb1]

IDK is it Hall or MOS that insists on dressing Hurl at MLB? Or pulling out poop for OK or Santos?  I am  going to wait and see what we change for our next game to  find out how they address these areas....

Edited September 3, 2017 by bb1

[Guest J5V]

17 minutes ago, Mark F said:

could another defensive coordinator do better than Hall with this bunch of players?

Yes. You could have the best players in the league and still give up huge yardage and lotsa point with this scheme. 

[JuranBoldenRules]

10 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

The big issue with that swap right now is we'd have to fill the hole at S and 1 more starting NI. I think the switch for loffler would be great though. 

Wouldn't need another starting NI.  Would need an import to play safety and honestly safety in the D schemes nowadays is basically another half with an extra read on some downs, most of the time where they are going is prescribed by the play call.

I don't doubt that we could fill that role fairly easily with Alexander who is comfortable being up in the box when needed too.

[Eternal optimist]

23 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

Yet we start at the 40 yard line and kick a FG.

They could score 40 points off of rouges for all I care, long as they find a way to win. Offense isn't the problem here... (yet), I think as a team though this problem only gets compounded as the season goes on (and gets colder). Our current team reminds me of Hamilton's 2011 team, high-flying offense, scored tons of points, got scored on tons. The problem though is when you play in November, especially outdoors, that fancy offense doesn't run as hot, and that's when our D really needs to step up.

[17to85]

As long as Hall is the DC here get used to giving up more yards than anyone wants, just the way he is. However did you notice that they gave up less points in the 2nd half? Guy is perfectly capable of making adjustments. The trouble with this game is that they gave up 14 points off a god awful int throw by Nichols and sloppy coverage on a kick return. 14 points, that's the difference in the game all because they got sloppy in 2 areas they are normally much better at. 

Compounding the poor all around start was the fact that the offense went cold for a long stretch and failed to get into the endzone when they had some chances. 

It was a terrible first quarter, after that it wasn't too bad a game. 

[Goalie]

Yup. D was good 2nd half. Like really good. 

O didnt wake up until it was 2 late tho. To me it appears that it was a classic case of square pegs in round holes. 

MOS on the CJOB postgame mentioned disappointed in defenses start tho and also not a fan of throwing a 4 yard pass when you need 7. 

[Tracker]

Just now, Eternal optimist said:

They could score 40 points off of rouges for all I care, long as they find a way to win. Offense isn't the problem here... (yet), I think as a team though this problem only gets compounded as the season goes on (and gets colder). Our current team reminds me of Hamilton's 2011 team, high-flying offense, scored tons of points, got scored on tons. The problem though is when you play in November, especially outdoors, that fancy offense doesn't run as hot, and that's when our D really needs to step up.

Its not about total offense- its about scoring when you have to, and getting the first downs when you have to. Similarly, its about getting the stops when you need to. We've been getting by on field goals and getting turnovers a lot, but that was unsustainable. The coaches deserve scrutiny as well. There were a lot of weird decisions today on offense, and it has been obvious that O'Shea has Dave Richie's syndrome.

[Goalie]

1 minute ago, tracker said:

Its not about total offense- its about scoring when you have to, and getting the first downs when you have to. Similarly, its about getting the stops when you need to. We've been getting by on field goals and getting turnovers a lot, but that was unsustainable. The coaches deserve scrutiny as well. There were a lot of weird decisions today on offense, and it has been obvious that O'Shea has Dave Richie's syndrome.

LOL.. At least you are consistent after every loss. Thats all ill say. 

[17to85]

Lapo relies on people missing tackles for his offense to work, Saskatchewan wasn't missing many tackles today so it didn't work and he had no adjustments for that fact. 

 

Now the Bombers D... they were missing tackles like it was going out of style. 

[Floyd]

All off-season its... 'oh we need a more traditional MLB instead of Bass'

and then suddenly there's just Hurl left standing - a guy who we've known isn't quite good enough

'Oh we need DBs that can play man because we're playing a lot more man coverage this year...'

but how do you cover when your MLB is bogged down in the line of scrimmage - answer:  make your safety into another HB...

'We want DL to be a position of strength'...

Jake Thomas starting DT by Game 8...

Its confusing.  Honestly.

[17to85]

People just need to keep in mind that it's never as good as you think when you're winning and it's never as bad as you think when you're losing. 

 

Football games always come down to a handful of plays and the Riders got the plays they needed today, specifically the int and kick return early that set them up for gimmie TDs. Bombers just never made any of the kind of big plays that you need to make to win the game. It wasn't a blow out or a mismatch really, it was just the Riders got their handful of big plays early and the Bombers never got any. Difference in the game right there, they had chances to make those plays and just never made them.