2016 re-draft

[Blueandgold]

5 minutes ago, voodoochylde said:

Out of curiousity, what would you consider impactful?  What contribution would you expect a first year player to make who plays behind an established veteran and two fairly dominant imports?

 

We selected Faith, knowing that his ceiling wasn't as high as other guys in the draft. He was supposed to have a high floor, and was selected to fill a need immediately. There's no reason he shouldn't be rotating in sporadically like Corney does.  

 

Edited September 22, 2017 by Blueandgold

[SPuDS]

Just now, Blueandgold said:

We selected Faith, knowing that his ceiling wasn't as high as other guys in the draft. He was supposed to have a high floor, and was selected to fill a need immediately. There's no reason he shouldn't be rotating in sporadically like Corney does.  

 

except we went with 2 american interior d-lineman and there is no arguing that they are better then their canadian counterparts.  We had originally planned to roll with a canuck in there more often then we do, hence why we drafted a backup to spell Thomas.   Once Johnson became available, that plan changed and rightly so.  hes been a beast in there. 

 

 

[Blueandgold]

2 minutes ago, Noeller said:

This entire statement is a complete and total load of crap.

What part of it is?  Please ask someone outside of Winnipeg and see if they agree with you.

[voodoochylde]

8 minutes ago, Blueandgold said:

We selected Faith, knowing that his ceiling wasn't as high as other guys in the draft. He was supposed to have a high floor, and was selected to fill a need immediately. There's no reason he shouldn't be rotating in sporadically like Corney does.  

He wasn't selected to fill an immediate need.  We had no immediate need.  This is the luxury we have with the depth Walters has built these last three years.

So your definition of "impact" is playing limited snaps .. rotating occasionally .. so kind of like what's he's done to this point (based on game day needs, game day roster decisions etc).  Great!  We're ahead of the curve then.

[Blueandgold]

4 minutes ago, blue_gold_84 said:

Well, the difference is Waggoner was a supplemental pick and then retired after two seasons. Putting Ekakitie in the same category after less than a season is poor form on your part and demonstrates a glaring lack of understanding or patience.

And you're right: no GM or his moves are perfect. I pretty much said that already in a reply you quoted but basically ignored, and then went on with your "he's a bust" narrative while repeatedly comparing him to Waggoner, albeit erroneously. And then you resort to the tired and inaccurate "blue and gold goggles" comment, which shows you lack the ability to have a rational discussion about any of this. All you keep doing is making false claims and deflecting, when others here have already refuted what you've said in a rational and objective way.

I'm not sure what's been refuted in a rational and/or objective way. I'd argue that there hasn't been one ''objective" comment this entire time and, all you said was the ''lol you think you know better than a GM comment".

There's nothing substantial nor worth replying to in a post like that.

[Noeller]

there is absolutely zero need to rotate Ekakatie in right now. If Jake Thomas was an every down player that required an NI back-up, then he likely would, but as it is, JT is just rotating in with Nevis and Poop. Now, having said that, would Ekakatie get reps now that Thomas appears to be the one taking Westerman's NI Roster spot? I'm not sure on that, as it looks like he'll still be sitting tonight as one of the 2 game-time scratches...

[Blueandgold]

2 minutes ago, voodoochylde said:

He wasn't selected to fill an immediate need.  We had no immediate need.  This is the luxury we have with the depth Walters has built these last three years.

So your definition of "impact" is playing limited snaps .. rotating occasionally .. so kind of like what's he's done to this point (based on game day needs, game day roster decisions etc).  Great!  We're ahead of the curve then.

He doesn't play at all. We're desperate for a Canadian on the D-line with Westerman hurt. If he's even somewhat capable of playing in the CFL at this stage of his career he'll see plenty of playing time tonight. 

Yes he was selected to fill an immediate need, this is revisionist history now. Do you honestly believe that Sam Hurl was our planned starting MLB? There's no doubt that our team has improved dramatically, but it doesn't mean we still don't have a need at Canadian positions.

Edited September 22, 2017 by Blueandgold

[blue_gold_84]

4 minutes ago, Blueandgold said:

What part of it is?  Please ask someone outside of Winnipeg and see if they agree with you.

Duane Forde. And the three other CFL teams who worked him out.

https://www.cfl.ca/2015/05/19/prospects-up-for-grabs-in-cfl-supplemental-draft/

http://3downnation.com/2015/05/19/waggoner-set-to-become-3rd-generation-cfler-thanks-to-moms-twitter/

[Jpan85]

Ekakatie has only been scratched a couple times this year. Pretty sure he has been in the last few weeks

[GCn20]

Ekakitie is not a bust. He hasn't been here long enough to be one. Saying Ekakitie is a bust is like saying Muamba was a bust because he rarely played in year one.

[Blueandgold]

4 minutes ago, blue_gold_84 said:

Duane Forde. And the three other CFL teams who worked him out.

https://www.cfl.ca/2015/05/19/prospects-up-for-grabs-in-cfl-supplemental-draft/

http://3downnation.com/2015/05/19/waggoner-set-to-become-3rd-generation-cfler-thanks-to-moms-twitter/

In what way does that say that he wasn't a bust or should've been a first round pick? Neither of those things are true. That's a fluff piece.

Edited September 22, 2017 by Blueandgold

[blue_gold_84]

4 minutes ago, Blueandgold said:

I'm not sure what's been refuted in a rational and/or objective way. I'd argue that there hasn't been one ''objective" comment this entire time and, all you said was the ''lol you think you know better than a GM comment".

There's nothing substantial nor worth replying to in a post like that.

When you make the claim Ekakitie is a bust and "most people here" didn't like the pick, you come across as a know-it-all. You've yet to make one logical argument for your opinion. And you're basically all over the map now trying to vainly justify your baseless claims, accusing others of revising history. Comical.

[Floyd]

Ekakitie's mark against him was his commitment to football...  I'm assuming Walters was comfortable with his work ethic when they chose him...

Calling a guy a bust halfway through the first season is ridiculous.  Luke and Vaughn have started but only out of desperation, guaranteed if Thomas gets hurt, Ekakitie will be one of our starters.

Boateng is the only real surprise from this DL class...  and every team passed on him basically

[Blueandgold]

Just now, blue_gold_84 said:

When you make the claim Ekakitie is a bust and "most people here" didn't like the pick, you come across as a know-it-all. You've yet to make one logical argument for your opinion. And you're basically all over the map now trying to vainly justify your baseless claims, accusing others of revising history. Comical.

Actually I have,  if you read back I've already said how he was a high floor low ceiling player selected to fill an immediate need.

You on the other hand, haven't contributed anything to this conversation, aside from making backhanded comments.

[blue_gold_84]

4 minutes ago, Blueandgold said:

Actually I have,  if you read back I've already said how he was a high floor low ceiling player selected to fill an immediate need.

You on the other hand, haven't contributed anything to this conversation, aside from making backhanded comments.

And nobody agrees with anything you've said. I'll let the consensus in this thread make my case, the same way I'll trust the judgement of a proven CFL GM over some know-it-all fan.

[Blueandgold]

https://bomberbuzz.com/2017/04/01/2017-cfl-draft-big-board-version-1-0-top-30-prospects/
26th ranked prospect here.
AKA Chip
From what I have heard about him, he is a low upside "safe" pick with minimal production in college. It is the downside of having the top pick that there is the feeling that they can't blow it by taking someone who may take a few years to get here. I suppose it's nice that he could theoretically play right away and it is an area of need but the pick itself is deeply underwhelming. Especially talent-wise compared to Ankou. 

Mike 

Not a big Ekakitie guy, I haven't seen much but he certainly fills a need for us and likely will from day one.

 

I've got enough faith in our draft team now that I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.


Wbbfan

The problem with ekakitie isnt the highlights, its the low lights and the gaps between. First 2 years at iowa, 10 games 15 tackles. 1 sack over 3 years. At points his senior year they struggled with the run as well.  

Just go read the CFL draft thread again. Some of these opinions are spot on. Everything said about Ekakite in there has been right.

But I'm just some '' know it all'' fan that has no idea what he's talking about right?

Edited September 22, 2017 by Blueandgold

[voodoochylde]

5 minutes ago, Blueandgold said:

https://bomberbuzz.com/2017/04/01/2017-cfl-draft-big-board-version-1-0-top-30-prospects/
26th ranked prospect here.
AKA Chip
From what I have heard about him, he is a low upside "safe" pick with minimal production in college. It is the downside of having the top pick that there is the feeling that they can't blow it by taking someone who may take a few years to get here. I suppose it's nice that he could theoretically play right away and it is an area of need but the pick itself is deeply underwhelming. Especially talent-wise compared to Ankou. 

Mike 

Not a big Ekakitie guy, I haven't seen much but he certainly fills a need for us and likely will from day one.

 

I've got enough faith in our draft team now that I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.


Wbbfan

The problem with ekakitie isnt the highlights, its the low lights and the gaps between. First 2 years at iowa, 10 games 15 tackles. 1 sack over 3 years. At points his senior year they struggled with the run as well.  

Just go read the CFL draft thread again. Some of these opinions are spot on. Everything said about Ekakite in there has been right.

But I'm just some '' know it all'' fan that has no idea what he's talking about right?

So .. you're quoting a bunch of fans?

Also 5th ranked prospect (might as well use the CFL Scouting Bureau rankings):  https://www.cfl.ca/2017/04/13/senior-tops-final-cfl-scouting-bureau-ranking/

I would suggest to you that "need" from an organizational perspective .. with what Walters et al are envisioning .. isn't of the immediate variety but rather with the concept of long term roster construction and flexibility in mind (ie. how our team is built), it also means providing depth.  Would it have been nice if Ekakitie could have come in and blown the doors off during training camp and won a starting spot outright? Sure.  It wasn't necessary.  

[blue_gold_84]

Just now, voodoochylde said:

So .. you're quoting a bunch of fans?

Also 5th ranked prospect (might as well use the CFL Scouting Bureau rankings):  https://www.cfl.ca/2017/04/13/senior-tops-final-cfl-scouting-bureau-ranking/

I would suggest to you that "need" from an organizational perspective .. with what Walters et al are envisioning .. isn't of the immediate variety but rather with the concept of long term roster construction and flexibility in mind (ie. how our team is built), it also means providing depth.  Would it have been nice if Ekakitie could have come in and blown the doors off during training camp and won a starting spot outright? Sure.  It wasn't necessary.  

I also don't see anyone in that thread comparing him to Waggoner or declaring him a bust, either.

[voodoochylde]

1 minute ago, blue_gold_84 said:

I also don't see anyone in that thread comparing him to Waggoner or declaring him a bust, either.

It's about perspective and I do believe that *many* people lack that around here (and I would argue most fan bases) when it comes to the CFL, high draft picks and the impact they are expected to make.

Am I happy with every pick we make?  No.  I hated the Richards pick with a passion for example (because I thought there were more impactful players available who also fit that need, receiver specifically).

[Blueandgold]

1 minute ago, voodoochylde said:

So .. you're quoting a bunch of fans?

Also 5th ranked prospect (might as well use the CFL Scouting Bureau rankings):  https://www.cfl.ca/2017/04/13/senior-tops-final-cfl-scouting-bureau-ranking/

I would suggest to you that "need" from an organizational perspective .. with what Walters et al are envisioning .. isn't of the immediate variety but rather with the concept of long term roster construction and flexibility in mind (ie. how our team is built), it also means providing depth.  Would it have been nice if Ekakitie could have come in and blown the doors off during training camp and won a starting spot outright? Sure.  It wasn't necessary.  

Not at all, there were many tweets from CFL guru's and people I would consider to be knowledgeable about the CFL who agreed that he wasn't worth a first round pick.  At the time, everyone acknowledged that should be getting at least the lower of a 70/30 split with Thomas.  Now Westerman is hurt, we're desperate for a Canadian on the DL and he still isn't going to play tonight.

There's red flags all over the place here, low upside players with commitment issues to football usually don't progress much as their careers go on. What you see is what you get here. But,  we'll agree to disagree and we'll bring this thread back up when he inevitably gets cut or proves to be a good player.

[Floyd]

Ekakitie still had the best pro-day results of the 'non-NFL' DTs available

Not great college stats ... in the Big Ten...  I'll take it.

[voodoochylde]

7 minutes ago, Blueandgold said:

Not at all, there were many tweets from CFL guru's and people I would consider to be knowledgeable about the CFL who agreed that he wasn't worth a first round pick.  At the time, everyone acknowledged that should be getting at least the lower of a 70/30 split with Thomas.  Now Westerman is hurt, we're desperate for a Canadian on the DL and he still isn't going to play tonight.

There's red flags all over the place here, low upside players with commitment issues to football usually don't progress much as their careers go on. What you see is what you get here. But,  we'll agree to disagree and we'll bring this thread back up when he inevitably gets cut or proves to be a good player.

Just a couple of quotes from a "knowledgeable CFL guru's":

Quote

“He’s definitely demonstrated that he’s a pretty good inside player,” Forde said of Ekakitie, who played four seasons at an NCAA Div. I school. “Pretty athletic kid and in terms of body type I think he’s a little more suited to the CFL than the NFL. He’s a guy who is likely to be here sooner rather than later and fits with the Bombers ratio-wise. He’s a guy that I’d look at as a fit for the first pick.”

Quote

"With this pick, Winnipeg is getting an exceptional athlete for someone this big. He moves really well and has good body control, skills and balance for a larger man. While it will take some time, and drilling with fundamentals, to see him excel, he looks to have all the tools and potential to make his mark for this franchise down the road." - Doug Brown

Outside a poster here, who said he lacked commitment to football?

[blue_gold_84]

https://www.cfl.ca/2017/05/03/forde-ferguson-tackle-drafts-burning-questions/

Quote

“It’s wide open,” said Forde, “but my early inclination is that they might go defensive line. One of the guys that stands out to me is a guy who may be more readily available than some of the guys that have signed NFL deals, Faith Ekakitie from Iowa.”

Ekakitie took some time to find his identity, Forde added, going from defensive end in a 3-4 configuration to an interior role in a traditional 4-3. But the TSN draft guru believes Ekakitie has established himself as a solid inside player that would fit Walters’ plans in Winnipeg.

“He’s a pretty athletic kid in terms of body type I think he’s a little more suited to the CFL than the NFL,” Forde added. “He’s likely to be here sooner than later and would seem to fit with the Bombers ratio-wise. He’s a guy that I look at as a fit for the first pick.”

 

[17to85]

1 hour ago, Noeller said:

FIRST YEAR PLAYERS NOT PLAYING IS A SIGN OF A TEAM THAT FINALLY HAS DEPTH AND ISN'T THROWING THEIR DRAFT PICKS TO THE WOLVES!!!

QUOTING BECAUSE MORE PEOPLE NEED TO READ THIS!

Seriously, the reason the guy isn't getting playing time is because the DL as a whole has gotten a lot deeper this year. I think people need to stop expecting draft picks to step in immediately. Even a guy like Henoc Muamba, who was a real good NI player didn't get a lot of playing time to start his rookie season. 

[bearpants]

1 hour ago, Blueandgold said:

Him retiring had nothing to do with it. He was a bad pick from the start, and he wasn't a good player. He was a bust regardless of his decision to retire.

I actually disagree with your premise... I think him retiring is a major factor in him being a bust... if he had gone on to play 10 years as a great special teamer, and defensive rotational player... he would be considered a good pick... not necessarily worthy of 1st round, but definitely not a bust...