Deadliest Mass Shooting In US History - Las Vegas

[The Unknown Poster]

Awful.

Man firing, presumably an assault rifle, from a high floor window of the Mandalay Bay hotel, towards a concert taking place across the street

 

 

 

 

 

[FrostyWinnipeg]

'murica needs more guns!

[Noeller]

absolutely sickening....

[Taynted_Fayth]

I thought Vegas hotels aren't allowed to have open/breakable windows on the higher floors to prevent suicide leaps from those who bust hard at the casinos or something like that, or drunks falling out or throwing stuff out from such a high altitude

[The Unknown Poster]

6 minutes ago, Taynted_Fayth said:

I thought Vegas hotels aren't allowed to have open/breakable windows on the higher floors to prevent suicide leaps from those who bust hard at the casinos or something like that, or drunks falling out or throwing stuff out from such a high altitude

Most of them are sealed but not all.  The Tropicana across the street has windows that open partially, like for venting but you can fit your arm outside (I held my camera outside the window to take pics).  But at Cosmo you can rent a room with a balcony.  Other hotels, windows open.

But even if the window doesnt open and you have an assault rifle, it would not be hard to break.

[Fatty Liver]

8 minutes ago, Taynted_Fayth said:

I thought Vegas hotels aren't allowed to have open/breakable windows on the higher floors to prevent suicide leaps from those who bust hard at the casinos or something like that, or drunks falling out or throwing stuff out from such a high altitude

The guy had 10 guns so he obviously came well prepared, it wouldn't be hard for him to make the adjustments to execute his plans if he brought along the right tools.

[Taynted_Fayth]

10 guns... thats just ridiculous. Hotels are going to start needing airport level screening of luggage being brought in through their doors.  Don't think it would have stopped this guy from causing some chaos but maybe the death toll is vastly reduced without the angle in which he was able to mow people down.

What amazes me is that they were able to find this guy and kill him, with that many windows/hotels to be looking at it must have been tough to pin point his exact location

[The Unknown Poster]

9 minutes ago, Throw Long Bannatyne said:

The guy had 10 guns so he obviously came well prepared, it wouldn't be hard for him to make the adjustments to execute his plans if he brought along the right tools.

Imagine if he got there with all of his guns and ammo and prepared for this horrible act and was foiled because he couldnt open the window.  if only...

Its hard not to want to on an anti-gun rant when we see this.  A lot of gun nuts will be hiding today.  Didnt Trump say if Clinton won, they would come for "our guns".  I wouldnt mind if someone had come for this guys' guns...

[The Unknown Poster]

1 minute ago, Taynted_Fayth said:

10 guns... thats just ridiculous. Hotels are going to start needing airport level screening of luggage being brought in through their doors.  Don't think it would have stopped this guy from causing some chaos but maybe the death toll is vastly reduced without the angle in which he was able to mow people down.

What amazes me is that they were able to find this guy and kill him, with that many windows/hotels to be looking at it must have been tough to pin point his exact location

The thing is, the immediate reaction will be more security at hotels, make sure windows cant be opened etc.  But thats really not the solution.  Its like the answer to the Edmonton attack being banning trucks. 

The issue is guns.  Period.  Guns guns guns.  That's the problem.  And while this guy could still attack people with a hunting rifle or hand gun, he aint picking off 50 from the 23rd floor with those weapons.  Take away these guns that have absolutely no reason for existence other then killing human beings. 

[FrostyWinnipeg]

2 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

The thing is, the immediate reaction will be more security at hotels, make sure windows cant be opened etc.  But thats really not the solution.  Its like the answer to the Edmonton attack being banning trucks. 

The issue is guns.  Period.  Guns guns guns.  That's the problem.  And while this guy could still attack people with a hunting rifle or hand gun, he aint picking off 50 from the 23rd floor with those weapons.  Take away these guns that have absolutely no reason for existence other then killing human beings. 

That wont happen. After every shooting people complain about guns but even after the school one the only major change was that teachers can carry guns.

Edited October 2, 2017 by FrostyWinnipeg

[The Unknown Poster]

Just now, FrostyWinnipeg said:

But that wont happen. After every shooting even the school one the only major change was that teachers can carry guns.

True.  Maybe the issue wasnt this guy and his weapons.  It was that the 50 people killed didnt also have weapons.  Im being sarcastic but thats basically the argument of gun nuts.

[Fatty Liver]

5 minutes ago, Taynted_Fayth said:

10 guns... thats just ridiculous. Hotels are going to start needing airport level screening of luggage being brought in through their doors.  Don't think it would have stopped this guy from causing some chaos but maybe the death toll is vastly reduced without the angle in which he was able to mow people down.

What amazes me is that they were able to find this guy and kill him, with that many windows/hotels to be looking at it must have been tough to pin point his exact location

This shooting event was probably spread out over 15-20 minutes, once the Hotel was alerted it wouldn't take them long to figure out where he was holed up just from the noise he was generating.  Imagine being in an adjoining room.

[Taynted_Fayth]

1 minute ago, The Unknown Poster said:

The thing is, the immediate reaction will be more security at hotels, make sure windows cant be opened etc.  But thats really not the solution.  Its like the answer to the Edmonton attack being banning trucks. 

The issue is guns.  Period.  Guns guns guns.  That's the problem.  And while this guy could still attack people with a hunting rifle or hand gun, he aint picking off 50 from the 23rd floor with those weapons.  Take away these guns that have absolutely no reason for existence other then killing human beings. 

As long as there is money to be had, both by gun dealers and governments it will never go away.  I also agree with Laurence Fishburne in Boyz in the Hood that they are also seen as a population control method as brutal as that sounds.

I agree though that Hotel security will come under fire which is probably should if someone can check in with an arsenal of weapons completely unchecked

[The Unknown Poster]

2 minutes ago, Taynted_Fayth said:

As long as there is money to be had, both by gun dealers and governments it will never go away.  I also agree with Laurence Fishburne in Boyz in the Hood that they are also seen as a population control method as brutal as that sounds.

I agree though that Hotel security will come under fire which is probably should if someone can check in with an arsenal of weapons completely unchecked

I disagree.  Does hotel security know what you're carrying when you check in?  Sure, if he clearly had an arsenal of weapons then someone should have been notified.  But its also Las Vegas.  Would it be that unusual for someone to have a gun case?  These weapons are legal.  Thats the problem.

[Fatty Liver]

3 minutes ago, Taynted_Fayth said:

As long as there is money to be had, both by gun dealers and governments it will never go away.  I also agree with Laurence Fishburne in Boyz in the Hood that they are also seen as a population control method as brutal as that sounds.

I agree though that Hotel security will come under fire which is probably should if someone can check in with an arsenal of weapons completely unchecked

Again, the pursuit of money and tourism dollars will push the Vegas hotels to ensure an event like this does not happen again on their turf.  Baggage check with x-ray, oh yea good as done.

[The Unknown Poster]

Just now, Throw Long Bannatyne said:

Again, the pursuit of money and tourism dollars will push the Vegas hotels to ensure an event like this does not happen again on their turf.  Baggage check with x-ray, oh yea good as done.

That would surprise me.  Are there not gun conventions in Vegas?  How would one bring their guns if they cant keep them?

Would a guy checking in with a legally acquired assault rifle raise any alarms before last night?

[Taynted_Fayth]

1 minute ago, The Unknown Poster said:

I disagree.  Does hotel security know what you're carrying when you check in?  Sure, if he clearly had an arsenal of weapons then someone should have been notified.  But its also Las Vegas.  Would it be that unusual for someone to have a gun case?  These weapons are legal.  Thats the problem.

They might be legal but Nevada AFAIK doesn't have a right to carry law in place so they can still enforce/act accordingly for the safety of their staff and patrons if they have/had proper screening of the stuff being brought in through their doors.  

I haven't been to Vegas in about 18 years but I remember there being some pretty lax security when it comes to the lobbies and casinos. Like people can just walk in off the street and sit down without much in the way of door security. I'm sure it's changed a bit since but there should definitely be a little more indeptyh screening,  especially if people are checking into rooms.  What if the next guy doesn't come in with guns but explosives? will he also just be allowed to check in unchecked?  

[Fatty Liver]

3 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

That would surprise me.  Are there not gun conventions in Vegas?  How would one bring their guns if they cant keep them?

Would a guy checking in with a legally acquired assault rifle raise any alarms before last night?

In a case like that, the hotel could hold them in security for their patrons.

Edited October 2, 2017 by Throw Long Bannatyne

[The Unknown Poster]

1 minute ago, Taynted_Fayth said:

They might be legal but Nevada AFAIK doesn't have a right to carry law in place so they can still enforce/act accordingly for the safety of their staff and patrons if they have/had proper screening of the stuff being brought in through their doors.  

I haven't been to Vegas in about 18 years but I remember there being some pretty lax security when it comes to the lobbies and casinos. Like people can just walk in off the street and sit down without much in the way of door security. I'm sure it's changed a bit since but there should definitely be a little more indeptyh screening,  especially if people are checking into rooms.  What if the next guy doesn't come in with guns but explosives? will he also just be allowed to check in unchecked?  

Casinos are very open.  Thats the point, people walk in and through all the time.  In fact, you WANT to in the summer because its hot as balls and the casinos are very air conditioned.  They wont be doing door security at casinos, not invasive anyway.

Nevada is an Open Carry state.  You can get carry conceal but you have to be authorized by the Sheriff I believe.  There is no long gun law.  Im not sure what that means.  But I think you can posses long guns.  So really, someone with appropriately stored guns, including rifles, have no issues in Nevada. 

I know some people are pushing back on this and saying the tragedy is being politicized.  Shouldn't it though?

There is no reason to have 1) assault rifles unless you intend to kill human being 2) multiple weapons. 

 

[FrostyWinnipeg]

Just now, The Unknown Poster said:

There is no reason to have 1) assault rifles unless you intend to kill human being 2) multiple weapons.

The response will be the right to bear arms allows it. Oh and sport shooting.

[The Unknown Poster]

4 minutes ago, Throw Long Bannatyne said:

In a case like that, the hotel could hold them in security for their patrons.

True.  But again, this is a matter of trying to put a ban aid on a massive wound.  The guy wanting to pick off people from his window isnt going to check his weapon in with security. 

So, would complete airport level scanners and pat downs at hotels work?  I suppose.  But anyone who's been to Vegas or any large city can see how that is not really practical.  And again, it might stop the guy from taking 10 rifles to his hotel room.  But it doesnt stop him from walking up to the concert grounds and opening fire.

[The Unknown Poster]

1 minute ago, FrostyWinnipeg said:

The response will be the right to bear arms allows it. Oh and sport shooting.

1) remove the right

2) I get sport shooting.  Im going to guess this guy was not a sport shooter (but you never know)

The issue with the former is of course the constitution.  And we've had this debate many times.  I personally fall on the side of those who dont believe the constitution guarantees that right at all.  It's quite specific.  Others argue the opposite.  One thing everyone can agree on, the founding fathers did not envision assault riffles so I cant see how that even enters the debate. 

You can maintain a right to bear arms while restricting access to military grade weapons.  Can someone own a tank?  If someone gets a nuke, can they own that?

I think most gun nuts, the "smart" ones anyway, their argument is not that we WANT assault rifles or that we NEED assault rifles.  Its sure, take the assault rifles but if they take those, they will come for your other guns next.  And thats where the discussion ends.

[Brandon]

Higher security at hotels in Vegas won't make a difference.    If a crazy person wants to take out a lot of people he will have a tonne of places that he can go to shoot up.    What's stopping a guy from doing the same at a high school football game anywhere in the States or at a fair or really anywhere with a gathering of people. 

 

[The Unknown Poster]

http://www.newsweek.com/las-vegas-gun-laws-open-carry-concealed-weapon-machine-guns-all-legal-nevada-675310

Nevada has some of the most-relaxed gun laws in the country

Nevada law does not require firearms owners to have licenses, register their weapons, or limits the number of firearms an individual posses. Automatic assault weapons and machine guns are also legal in the state as long as they are registered and are possessed in adherence to federal law, according to the National Rifle Association.

I guess we can take comfort in knowing this vile murderer likely registered his assault weapons before killing 50 people.

[Atomic]

Guns exist, they're not going away.  You can't put Pandora back in the box.  You can outlaw, regulate, or whatever.  But if an evil person wants to get his hands on an assault rifle, he will be able to do so.  Legally or otherwise.