Andrew Harris 1000/1000 Watch

[sweep the leg]

23 minutes ago, WildPath said:

Is it just me or has Nichols looked more elusive as well the last 2 games or so? Seems like he never used to find his way out of pressure, but I noticed a few plays where he showed some escapability lately.  And I mean that separate from ability to run the football.

I thought early in the year he put himself in bad situations with his happy feet. I don't really notice that anymore.

[Mike]

Let's be honest, the team knows the hunt for 1000/1000 is on and Harris is going to be getting the ball as a pass catcher as often as he has to in situations where he may typically not. 

They want him to get the record. Personally, I think he gets it either way.

[Mark F]

You guys didn't listen to the coach's show the other night. And you don't seem to get O'Shea.

a fan asked the question, would Harris be played in the last game, just to get the record.

O'Shea actually guffawed.

To answer, he said individual records are fine,  but don't really matter to him, or his players.

it's team first.  they will do whatever is best for the team.

He specifically mentioned from when he was playing, for Don Mathews, Drummond was on the verge of the same record, and Matthews sat him for a few games, to get him healthy for the playoffs.

And he mentioned that the Argos won the Grey Cup that year. That's what he wants, and it sounded like that's what Andrew wants too.

He sounded surprised that the question was asked.

If I'm not expressing this clearly, he basically said (to my understanding) this record didn't mean much to him, and does not play into what he's going to do.

Sure didn't sound like he was saying anything other than exactly what he thinks.

Edited October 3, 2017 by Mark F

[Mr Dee]

If we’re going to be honest, Andrew Harris’s bid to achieve that record faces at least 2 obstacles.

Firstly, it is not a team goal. The team comes first. Winning the game comes first.  Being ready for the playoffs is next.

Andrew Harris was only 26 yards away from rushing for 1000 yards last year, and yet, they did not feed him the ball in the last game against Ottawa. He rushed 10 times for 60 yards. Normand rushed  8 times in that game. They did not push for it. And yet, they threw the ball for Dressler to get 1000 yards.

Now, this is a different achievement for sure. They have time until the end of the year to game plan for him...but will they? I wouldn’t be more happy if we see evidence of a push beginning next game.

But it won’t be their prime goal. The team comes first. And opponents are aware of what Harris is seeking. They will know he will be getting the ball in some form, or another.

For the W. 

Thats all that matters..

[blue_gold_84]

1 hour ago, Mr Dee said:

If we’re going to be honest, Andrew Harris’s bid to achieve that record faces at least 2 obstacles.

Firstly, it is not a team goal. The team comes first. Winning the game comes first.  Being ready for the playoffs is next.

Andrew Harris was only 26 yards away from rushing for 1000 yards last year, and yet, they did not feed him the ball in the last game against Ottawa. He rushed 10 times for 60 yards. Normand rushed  8 times in that game. They did not push for it. And yet, they threw the ball for Dressler to get 1000 yards.

Now, this is a different achievement for sure. They have time until the end of the year to game plan for him...but will they? I wouldn’t be more happy if we see evidence of a push beginning next game.

But it won’t be their prime goal. The team comes first. And opponents are aware of what Harris is seeking. They will know he will be getting the ball in some form, or another.

For the W. 

Thats all that matters..

Uh, it's Fort Hew, Mr. Dee. Get it right. 

[Arnold_Palmer]

3 hours ago, Mike said:

Let's be honest, the team knows the hunt for 1000/1000 is on and Harris is going to be getting the ball as a pass catcher as often as he has to in situations where he may typically not. 

They want him to get the record. Personally, I think he gets it either way.

Meh good things happen when he gets the ball in his hands. He was always going to be a crucial part of our passing game, especially with Dressler out of the lineup. 

[Guest J5V]

2 hours ago, Arnold_Palmer said:

Meh good things happen when he gets the ball in his hands. He was always going to be a crucial part of our passing game, especially with Dressler out of the lineup. 

I agree. I want to see Lapo plan to feed Harris the ball consistently. If the D has obviously keyed on Harris then sure, go elsewhere, but only after the D has demonstrated they have the ability to stop Mr. Harris. We should definitely assert our will on any D we face and make them stop what we're doing. Even if they try, they may not be able to stop Mr. Harris. It is silly to think that Harris getting this record would not be a win for the team.

[bearpants]

18 hours ago, Mr Dee said:

Firstly, it is not a team goal. The team comes first.

 

I actually disagree with you completely here... you don't think 1000/1000 would mean a ton to the hogs, Nichols and the receivers who block for him... this would reflect an accomplishment for the entire offense, IMO...

[MC]

18 hours ago, Mr Dee said:

If we’re going to be honest, Andrew Harris’s bid to achieve that record faces at least 2 obstacles.

Firstly, it is not a team goal. The team comes first. Winning the game comes first.  Being ready for the playoffs is next.

Andrew Harris was only 26 yards away from rushing for 1000 yards last year, and yet, they did not feed him the ball in the last game against Ottawa. He rushed 10 times for 60 yards. Normand rushed  8 times in that game. They did not push for it. And yet, they threw the ball for Dressler to get 1000 yards.

Now, this is a different achievement for sure. They have time until the end of the year to game plan for him...but will they? I wouldn’t be more happy if we see evidence of a push beginning next game.

But it won’t be their prime goal. The team comes first. And opponents are aware of what Harris is seeking. They will know he will be getting the ball in some form, or another.

For the W. 

Thats all that matters..

I usually agree with you Mr. Dee, but you forgot one important element. 

For the W...and the $

That's all that matters.

We don't want to think that way, but there had to be a bonus in Harris's contract last year if he hit 1,000 yards.  He was pulled and the full back got carries when the goal was not only in sight but right there.

Granted this is a bigger record, but when the last game could be meaningless and there is money at stake, those two things combined are bigger yet.

[Fatty Liver]

19 hours ago, Mark F said:

You guys didn't listen to the coach's show the other night. And you don't seem to get O'Shea.

a fan asked the question, would Harris be played in the last game, just to get the record.

O'Shea actually guffawed.

To answer, he said individual records are fine,  but don't really matter to him, or his players.

it's team first.  they will do whatever is best for the team.

He specifically mentioned from when he was playing, for Don Mathews, Drummond was on the verge of the same record, and Matthews sat him for a few games, to get him healthy for the playoffs.

And he mentioned that the Argos won the Grey Cup that year. That's what he wants, and it sounded like that's what Andrew wants too.

He sounded surprised that the question was asked.

If I'm not expressing this clearly, he basically said (to my understanding) this record didn't mean much to him, and does not play into what he's going to do.

Sure didn't sound like he was saying anything other than exactly what he thinks.

I would agree that the team should not deviate from their playoff preparation by chasing this record which is secondary.  Seems to me this is a story-line/talking point  that TSN picked up on mid-season and and they want to milk it for all it's worth.

[Mr Dee]

57 minutes ago, bearpants said:

I actually disagree with you completely here... you don't think 1000/1000 would mean a ton to the hogs, Nichols and the receivers who block for him... this would reflect an accomplishment for the entire offense, IMO...

First of all, what you’re saying covers two different things. Of course the hogs and Nichols and receivers and Bob Irving and everyone would be ecstatic if that 1000/1000 thing came to pass. Who wouldn’t? It would be quite the accomplishment indeed.

But if you look at  Mark F’s post, just above mine, it  virtually says the same thing.  

“To answer, he (O’Shea) said individual records are fine,  but don't really matter to him, or his players. it's team first.  they will do whatever is best for the team.”

IMO, they will try for the record, but it will not be their uppermost goal. That is the team thing. They’ve proved it before and they’ll stick to it for the W.

45 minutes ago, MC said:

Granted this is a bigger record, but when the last game could be meaningless and there is money at stake, those two things combined are bigger yet.

I’m not sure what you’re saying here. That they won’t go for it because of the money/bonus situation?

[TrueBlue4ever]

1 hour ago, Mr Dee said:

First of all, what you’re saying covers two different things. Of course the hogs and Nichols and receivers and Bob Irving and everyone would be ecstatic if that 1000/1000 thing came to pass. Who wouldn’t? It would be quite the accomplishment indeed.

But if you look at  Mark F’s post, just above mine, it  virtually says the same thing.  

“To answer, he (O’Shea) said individual records are fine,  but don't really matter to him, or his players. it's team first.  they will do whatever is best for the team.”

IMO, they will try for the record, but it will not be their uppermost goal. That is the team thing. They’ve proved it before and they’ll stick to it for the W.

I’m not sure what you’re saying here. That they won’t go for it because of the money/bonus situation?

I think he is referring to the playoff bonus money they can make, and not wanting to jeopardize a playoff run with the potential of an injury in a meaningless game for the sake of a record.

BTW, did a quick breakdown of our remaining opponents and Harris' performance against each of them so far to calculate if he would hit 1,000/1,000 if he repeats his efforts. Broke down this way:

Currently at 793 rushing/718 receiving

last game against Hamilton, was 107/21 (would take him to 900/739)

last game against BC, was 29/85 (would take him to 929/824)

last game against Toronto, was 81/13 (would take him to 1,010/837)

BC again (would take him to 1,039/922)

last game against Calgary, was 32/69 (would take him to 1,071/991).

[Tracker]

I don't mind TSN pumping Harris' possible 1000/1000 season at all. We need to celebrate the extraordinary talent in the league instead of drooling over the often bizarre NFL "superstars".

[Atomic]

Great stuff lately @TrueBlue4ever

[Jpan85]

All it takes is one or two games with big numbers and he will be real close.

[Fan Boy]

14 hours ago, Jpan85 said:

All it takes is one or two games with big numbers and he will be real close.

No reason this next game isn't one of those big games. 

[blue_gold_84]

8 minutes ago, Fan Boy said:

No reason this next game isn't one of those big games. 

I was thinking the same thing. Harris must be licking his chops at the prospect of going up against a team that's pretty much in next season mode. It'd be nice to see him crack the century mark in both rushing and receiving tomorrow.

[TrueBlue4ever]

The focus on this record has to be the receiving. If the Bombers are up late and killing the clock, then the rushing attempts and yards will come in garbage time, on top of whatever "establish the run game" attempts are part of the game plan. Two big factors that will impact the receiving yards are (1) the passes where Harris is primary target, like a set-up screen, as opposed to where he is simply the outlet valve when all other receiving options are covered - obviously that will affect the total number of targets he is getting, and (2) the YAC yards (is that redundant?) factor.

Unlike a "normal" receiver, a running back is not running a deep route or a 10 yard out typically, so their yards are pretty much all after the catch close to the line of scrimmage, with a sizeable portion of the defence still between them and the goal line trying to make the tackle, and not in chase position. There are 5 receivers over 1,000 yards right now, and Brandon Zylstra leads that group with 330 YAC yards, or 29% of his total. Brad Sinopoli is #2 in YAC yards with 376, or 38% of his 989 total yards. Bakari Grant has 374 YAC yards out of 802 total, an impressive 46% (2nd best). Any guesses as to where Harris is? 564 of his 718 yards are YAC, or a ridiculous 78.6%.

For comparison's sake, consider Milt Stegall, the greatest deep threat receiver in history. His YAC yards were typically gained after he had already beat the defender deep, and was just outrunning them to the end zone. I could not find career stats including YAC yards for him (they only really started seriously tracking this stuff last year), but think of his two greatest games. First, his 4 catch 4 TD game against BC. Of his 234 yards, 134 were YAC, or 57%. On his "miracle" catch in Edmonton, 68 of the 100 yards (68% for the mathematically challenged) were after the catch. Now those are the most extreme examples of YAC yards I can think of - Stegall's career percentage will be much lower than those gaudy numbers. And in all instances, he caught the ball behind the defenders and just outran them. Compare that to Harris' almost 79% achievement and remember that he's not outrunning tacklers from behind him in a foot race so much as dodging and straight-arming (and dragging) them as they appear in front of him.

I'm not even sure a 1,000 receiving season has yet been registered in the CFL by a running back, much less 1,000/1,000. Craig Ellis is recorded as having the record for receptions by a running back in a season at 102, and that was in 1985 in Saskatchewan when he didn't break 1,000 yards. He later went over 1,000 receiving three times with Edmonton from 1989-91, but he was regarded as a slotback then, I believe. Likewise for Pinball Clemons in 1996-97 with Toronto, where he had converted to slotback. Just so we can put this all into context when debating our MOP candidate. If Harris achieves this (or even if he comes up just short), then there should be no debate as to who has had the most impressive (and historically greatest possibly ever) season in this regard. 

Edited October 5, 2017 by TrueBlue4ever

[GCn20]

Our last game is against Calgary, the Bombers will not sit anyone unless they are nicked up. They will want to deliver a message going into the playoffs.

[Noeller]

25 minutes ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

The focus on this record has to be the receiving. If the Bombers are up late and killing the clock, then the rushing attempts and yards will come in garbage time, on top of whatever "establish the run game" attempts are part of the game plan. Two big factors that will impact the receiving yards are (1) are the passes Harris is getting a planned look like a set-up screen, or is he simply the outlet valve when all other receiving options are covered - obviously that will affect the total number of targets he is getting, and (2) the YAC yards (is that redundant?) factor.

Unlike a "normal" receiver, a running back is not running a deep route or a 10 yard out typically, so their yards are pretty much all after the catch close to the line of scrimmage, with a sizeable portion of the defence still between them and the goal line trying to make the tackle, and not in chase position. There are 5 receivers over 1,000 yards right now, and Brandon Zylstra leads that group with 330 YAC yards, or 29% of his total. Brad Sinopoli is #2 in YAC yards with 376, or 38% of his 989 total yards. Bakari Grant has 374 YAC yards out of 802 total, an impressive 46% (2nd best). Any guesses as to where Harris is? 564 of his 718 yards are YAC, or a ridiculous 78.6%.

For comparison's sake, consider Milt Stegall, the greatest deep threat receiver in history. His YAC yards were typically gained after he had already beat the defender deep, and was just outrunning them to the end zone. I could not find career stats including YAC yards for him (they only really started seriously tracking this stuff last year), but think of his two greatest games. First, his 4 catch 4 TD game against BC. Of his 234 yards, 134 were YAC, or 57%. On his "miracle" catch in Edmonton, 68 of the 100 yards (68% for the mathematically challenged) were after the catch. Now those are the most extreme. examples of YAC yards I can think of - Stegall's career percentage will be much lower than those gaudy numbers. And in all instances, he caught the ball behind the defenders and just outran them. Compare that to Harris' almost 79% achievement and remember that he's not outrunning tacklers from behind him in a foot race so much as dodging and straight-arming (and dragging) them as they appear in front of him.

I'm not even sure a 1,000 receiving season has yet been registered in the CFL by a running back, much less 1,000/1,000. Craig Ellis is recorded as having the record for receptions by a running back in a season at 102, and that was in 1985 in Saskatchewan when he didn't break 1,000 yards. He later went over 1,000 receiving three times with Edmonton from 1989-91, but he was regarded as a slotback then, I believe. Likewise for Pinball Clemons in 1996-97 with Toronto, where he had converted to slotback. Just so we can put this all into context when debating our MOP candidate, if Harris achieves this (or even if he comes up just short), then there should be no debate as to who has had the most impressive (and historically greatest possibly ever) season in this regard. 

Tldr

[mbrg]

Andrew Harris is already the focus of this offence.  They already look his way most of the time.  It won't be substantially increased.  If they wanted him to have even more touches, Flanders would not be playing.

[Bob the Bomber]

It's simple.  If Harris reaches 1000/1000 it means we win the cup this year.

My rational is if he makes that goal, we win football games.  It also means the offense is scoring pretty consistently and there is solid ball distribution between him and Flanders and receivers.  As Harris gets closer to that goal, other team will be gunning to stop him. 

Also, this will mean we have won out the season posting a 15-3 record.  The Bombers will finally be taken serious as a contender and will be the team Calgary has to beat to make it to the cup. 

[TrueBlue4ever]

1 hour ago, Noeller said:

Tldr

Better?

[Bigblue204]

22 hours ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

The focus on this record has to be the receiving. If the Bombers are up late and killing the clock, then the rushing attempts and yards will come in garbage time, on top of whatever "establish the run game" attempts are part of the game plan. Two big factors that will impact the receiving yards are (1) the passes where Harris is primary target, like a set-up screen, as opposed to where he is simply the outlet valve when all other receiving options are covered - obviously that will affect the total number of targets he is getting, and (2) the YAC yards (is that redundant?) factor.

Unlike a "normal" receiver, a running back is not running a deep route or a 10 yard out typically, so their yards are pretty much all after the catch close to the line of scrimmage, with a sizeable portion of the defence still between them and the goal line trying to make the tackle, and not in chase position. There are 5 receivers over 1,000 yards right now, and Brandon Zylstra leads that group with 330 YAC yards, or 29% of his total. Brad Sinopoli is #2 in YAC yards with 376, or 38% of his 989 total yards. Bakari Grant has 374 YAC yards out of 802 total, an impressive 46% (2nd best). Any guesses as to where Harris is? 564 of his 718 yards are YAC, or a ridiculous 78.6%.

For comparison's sake, consider Milt Stegall, the greatest receiver in history. His YAC yards were typically gained after he had already beat the defender deep, and was just outrunning them to the end zone. I could not find career stats including YAC yards for him (they only really started seriously tracking this stuff last year), but think of his two greatest games. First, his 4 catch 4 TD game against BC. Of his 234 yards, 134 were YAC, or 57%. On his "miracle" catch in Edmonton, 68 of the 100 yards (68% for the mathematically challenged) were after the catch. Now those are the most extreme examples of YAC yards I can think of - Stegall's career percentage will be much lower than those gaudy numbers. And in all instances, he caught the ball behind the defenders and just outran them. Compare that to Harris' almost 79% achievement and remember that he's not outrunning tacklers from behind him in a foot race so much as dodging and straight-arming (and dragging) them as they appear in front of him.

I'm not even sure a 1,000 receiving season has yet been registered in the CFL by a running back, much less 1,000/1,000. Craig Ellis is recorded as having the record for receptions by a running back in a season at 102, and that was in 1985 in Saskatchewan when he didn't break 1,000 yards. He later went over 1,000 receiving three times with Edmonton from 1989-91, but he was regarded as a slotback then, I believe. Likewise for Pinball Clemons in 1996-97 with Toronto, where he had converted to slotback. Just so we can put this all into context when debating our MOP candidate. If Harris achieves this (or even if he comes up just short), then there should be no debate as to who has had the most impressive (and historically greatest possibly ever) season in this regard. 

FTFY

[TrueBlue4ever]

51 minutes ago, Bigblue204 said:

FTFY

Merci.