Stamps @ Awful Masolis / Redblacks @ Ridirts

[USABomberfan]

12 minutes ago, bearpants said:

so he makes a few good plays at HB and he's suddenly qualified to be a middle linebacker?... that's not how football works...

 

Fair enough, but when's the last time Hurl made good plays there?  Just saying...

[Noeller]

13 minutes ago, USABomberfan said:

Fair enough, but when's the last time Hurl made good plays there?  Just saying...

Every single game.....he does what he's asked. Not saying the guy's perfect, but don't say he doesn't make good plays, either...

[SPuDS]

3 minutes ago, USABomberfan said:

Fair enough, but when's the last time Hurl made good plays there?  Just saying...

he actually makes plays.. more often then anyone here gives him credit for.

[USABomberfan]

4 minutes ago, Noeller said:

Every single game.....he does what he's asked. Not saying the guy's perfect, but don't say he doesn't make good plays, either...

Maybe, but the best LBs are those who diagnose and disrupt the opposing team's plays.  I don't see Hurl as a disrupter.

[SPuDS]

Just now, USABomberfan said:

Maybe, but the best LBs are those who diagnose and disrupt the opposing team's plays.  I don't see Hurl as a disrupter.

sure but that isn`t the be-all end-all for an LB to do their job.   Hurl`s role in the defense isn`t to be a prototypical LB.. why is this so f`n hard for people to wrap their heads around.   IF he was in a traditional defensive scheme then sure, everyone would have a legit gripe but hes not.  He does exactly what is asked of him.  look elsewhere for a scapegoat because you cannot pick on a player who is asked to do a shitty job and he does it the way the coach asks him.

[USABomberfan]

2 minutes ago, SPuDS said:

sure but that isn`t the be-all end-all for an LB to do their job.   Hurl`s role in the defense isn`t to be a prototypical LB.. why is this so f`n hard for people to wrap their heads around.   IF he was in a traditional defensive scheme then sure, everyone would have a legit gripe but hes not.  He does exactly what is asked of him.  look elsewhere for a scapegoat because you cannot pick on a player who is asked to do a shitty job and he does it the way the coach asks him.

Hall's vanilla defense is traditional.  In fact I'd say that's the problem is it's too tradtional it's predictable.

[blueingreenland]

Halls defense was not vanilla on Saturday. Except for the last 3 minutes or so we played aggressive.

[Rich]

10 minutes ago, SPuDS said:

sure but that isn`t the be-all end-all for an LB to do their job.   Hurl`s role in the defense isn`t to be a prototypical LB.. why is this so f`n hard for people to wrap their heads around.   IF he was in a traditional defensive scheme then sure, everyone would have a legit gripe but hes not.  He does exactly what is asked of him.  look elsewhere for a scapegoat because you cannot pick on a player who is asked to do a shitty job and he does it the way the coach asks him.

People keep stating this like Hall was on the whiteboard one day and said I'm going to build a defence where my MLB can just chew up a blocker and not have to do anything else really well,.  This is mostly based on a few responses from O'Shea who would never through a player under the bus.

What the more likely explanation is that the defence has been setup to accommodate Hurl's shortcomings, not the other way around.  You can't tell me if we had someone like an Elimimian on the roster he would be asked to do what Hurl does.   And even if he was, he would be far more effective than Hurl out there and make more plays.

Is that the extreme example of a MLB?  Yes.  But you get the point.  Hurl is asked to do what he is capable of.  Nothing more.  That is why people complain.  They want a better playmaker at MLB.

[USABomberfan]

1 minute ago, blueingreenland said:

Halls defense was not vanilla on Saturday. Except for the last 3 minutes or so we played aggressive.

Well those last 3 minutes are very key in the CFL.  I'm for a full aggressive defense for 60 minutes, not 57.

[blueingreenland]

Good for you!

[Bigblue204]

Just now, USABomberfan said:

Maybe, but the best LBs are those who diagnose and disrupt the opposing team's plays.  I don't see Hurl as a disrupter.

He's not supposed to be (apparently anyway) that is Leggetts Job. And he's the best at it. He's now out due to injury. Santos Knox has looked legit in his starts and Hurl is the gap filler. WPG isn't the only team with a weak link on D/the LB core. There isn't a team in the league that couldn't upgrade there. People need to stop looking at the MLB as the Play maker in this system. He just isn't. Hasn't been for 3 years now. Multiple players have had similar results. Not saying Hurl couldn't be upgraded, just saying whoever goes in there won't be the next Singleton.

[USABomberfan]

1 minute ago, Bigblue204 said:

He's not supposed to be (apparently anyway) that is Leggetts Job. And he's the best at it. He's now out due to injury. Santos Knox has looked legit in his starts and Hurl is the gap filler. WPG isn't the only team with a weak link on D/the LB core. There isn't a team in the league that couldn't upgrade there. People need to stop looking at the MLB as the Play maker in this system. He just isn't. Hasn't been for 3 years now. Multiple players have had similar results. Not saying Hurl couldn't be upgraded, just saying whoever goes in there won't be the next Singleton.

Last I checked it's the whole defense's job.  And Singleton while great is not the only good player on that Stamps defense.  I'm certain even if he went down more players over there would step up.

[Bigblue204]

6 minutes ago, Rich said:

People keep stating this like Hall was on the whiteboard one day and said I'm going to build a defence where my MLB can just chew up a blocker and not have to do anything else really well,.  This is mostly based on a few responses from O'Shea who would never through a player under the bus.

What the more likely explanation is that the defence has been setup to accommodate Hurl's shortcomings, not the other way around.  You can't tell me if we had someone like an Elimimian on the roster he would be asked to do what Hurl does.   And even if he was, he would be far more effective than Hurl out there and make more plays.

Is that the extreme example of a MLB?  Yes.  But you get the point.  Hurl is asked to do what he is capable of.  Nothing more.  That is why people complain.  They want a better playmaker at MLB.

I see what you mean. And you're likely right in terms of changing things to fit the player, especially if they are the star type like ELI or Singleton etc. But The bombers have had other players in that role and the results are similar.

Not saying Hurl can't be upgraded, his pass coverage alone gives me shivers. But he isn't the play maker on this D. The MLB has't been the play maker for 3 years now.

[Bigblue204]

1 minute ago, USABomberfan said:

Last I checked it's the whole defense's job.  And Singleton while great is not the only good player on that Stamps defense.  I'm certain even if he went down more players over there would step up.

Yes obviously it's everyones job. I was just stating the obvious. When this team looks for a big play. They look to Leggett, the same way CGY looks to Singleton.

[SPuDS]

5 minutes ago, Bigblue204 said:

I see what you mean. And you're likely right in terms of changing things to fit the player, especially if they are the star type like ELI or Singleton etc. But The bombers have had other players in that role and the results are similar.

Not saying Hurl can't be upgraded, his pass coverage alone gives me shivers. But he isn't the play maker on this D. The MLB has't been the play maker for 3 years now.

exactly.  its been the same way since Hall`s been here.  Hes not really ever been a big proponent of a game changing MLB.. even when we have had the talent to play one (in some peoples minds anyway) it was seldom a spot on our defense that had a huge impact on the game.   Hall`s style or lack of recruitment.. Im not sure which one is to blame.   I just know the MLB hasn`t been a focal on our defenses since Muamba was here.

[USABomberfan]

I just think it would have been worth the risk to keep Unamba and try him out at MLB.  To me, while he plays HB it seems like he has LB instincts.  High risk, high reward.

[17to85]

The Wil is more of a playmaker in this defense than the MLB is and honestly the change from Knox to Santos-Knox has really emphasised that. 

[blue_gold_84]

27 minutes ago, USABomberfan said:

I just think it would have been worth the risk to keep Unamba and try him out at MLB.  To me, while he plays HB it seems like he has LB instincts.  High risk, high reward.

Meh, no use in wondering what could've been with a player who hasn't played for the Bombers in three years. Has Unamba even played at LB?

[Fatty Liver]

7 minutes ago, blue_gold_84 said:

Meh, no use in wondering what could've been with a player who hasn't played for the Bombers in three years. Has Unamba even played at LB?

Yes, but I believe he played SAM not WIL.

[Booch]

Actually Knox has performed a lot better lately...comes in on certain packages now and has been disruptive and is a good blitzer when asked too...I see his role evolving a bit differently now and it has helped his game.

Hurl...ya sure in this defense he is asked to do some un-glamorous stuff and not have a shot at the sexy stats....that being said though he has a hard time getting un-engaged or scraping down the line, and has really tight hips and it limits what he can do in space and when in coverage when asked...he is slow in game speed as well and it gets exploited..has a poor 6 inch pop and it's really noticeable and causes him to be just a bit late on everything.

Even though he is used to fill a gap and control a lane, he also has to be able to react and make a play when doing so when that gap is being ran through, and most times he can't do that. I have played a lot of football American and Canadian and never have I been part of a scheme where a guy is asked to soley man a gap and not really be a factor in stopping a play, but occupying space and blockers for others to make the plays...thats silly and if that was the case a smart OC would exploit the hell out of that and draw everyone else  out of the box or away from option #1 and you would have gobs and gobs of yards ate up on you on every play

I think management dropped the ball in linebacker recruitment and over estimated the ability to have a National man the middle of the D-line in 2016 with Shologan, and this year with Thomas/ekakite and are protecting the players they have now publicly with this defensive scheme used, or leading people to believe is used. 

[SPuDS]

50 minutes ago, USABomberfan said:

I just think it would have been worth the risk to keep Unamba and try him out at MLB.  To me, while he plays HB it seems like he has LB instincts.  High risk, high reward.

thats a hilarious joke..

 

oh.. wait, you were being serious.

[USABomberfan]

2 minutes ago, SPuDS said:

thats a hilarious joke..

 

oh.. wait, you were being serious.

Come on man, it's just an opinion, but as Bluegold said, yeah not going to dwell on what might have been

3 minutes ago, Booch said:

Actually Knox has performed a lot better lately...comes in on certain packages now and has been disruptive and is a good blitzer when asked too...I see his role evolving a bit differently now and it has helped his game.

Hurl...ya sure in this defense he is asked to do some un-glamorous stuff and not have a shot at the sexy stats....that being said though he has a hard time getting un-engaged or scraping down the line, and has really tight hips and it limits what he can do in space and when in coverage when asked...he is slow in game speed as well and it gets exploited..has a poor 6 inch pop and it's really noticeable and causes him to be just a bit late on everything.

Even though he is used to fill a gap and control a lane, he also has to be able to react and make a play when doing so when that gap is being ran through, and most times he can't do that. I have played a lot of football American and Canadian and never have I been part of a scheme where a guy is asked to soley man a gap and not really be a factor in stopping a play, but occupying space and blockers for others to make the plays...thats silly and if that was the case a smart OC would exploit the hell out of that and draw everyone else  out of the box or away from option #1 and you would have gobs and gobs of yards ate up on you on every play

I think management dropped the ball in linebacker recruitment and over estimated the ability to have a National man the middle of the D-line in 2016 with Shologan, and this year with Thomas/ekakite and are protecting the players they have now publicly with this defensive scheme used, or leading people to believe is used. 

This right here I'd say is the crux of what I'm getting at.

[Guest J5V]

4 hours ago, USABomberfan said:

Not really.  This isn't hockey.  Yes, it's good to have some feistiness and be physical, but you gotta stay smart and disciplined in big games.  If you don't, you're just like Johnny Sears who cost us some big ones with his foolishness.

I didn't say it was smart or disciplined. I just said I liked it. 

[Fatty Liver]

1 hour ago, Booch said:

Actually Knox has performed a lot better lately...comes in on certain packages now and has been disruptive and is a good blitzer when asked too...I see his role evolving a bit differently now and it has helped his game.

Hurl...ya sure in this defense he is asked to do some un-glamorous stuff and not have a shot at the sexy stats....that being said though he has a hard time getting un-engaged or scraping down the line, and has really tight hips and it limits what he can do in space and when in coverage when asked...he is slow in game speed as well and it gets exploited..has a poor 6 inch pop and it's really noticeable and causes him to be just a bit late on everything.

Even though he is used to fill a gap and control a lane, he also has to be able to react and make a play when doing so when that gap is being ran through, and most times he can't do that. I have played a lot of football American and Canadian and never have I been part of a scheme where a guy is asked to soley man a gap and not really be a factor in stopping a play, but occupying space and blockers for others to make the plays...thats silly and if that was the case a smart OC would exploit the hell out of that and draw everyone else  out of the box or away from option #1 and you would have gobs and gobs of yards ate up on you on every play

I think management dropped the ball in linebacker recruitment and over estimated the ability to have a National man the middle of the D-line in 2016 with Shologan, and this year with Thomas/ekakite and are protecting the players they have now publicly with this defensive scheme used, or leading people to believe is used. 

Fact is Hurl was a F.A. signing this off-season and they waited until the last minute to sign him, so I don't think he was supposed to be slotted as the starting MLB.  I honestly can't think of a player that would fit Richie Hall's MLB position perfectly, it's difficult to find a player with the strength to wrestle O-linemen and still have the speed and agility to cover receivers coming out of the backfield.  It was a waste of Bass's talent last season to use him in that that role as well.

Edited October 16, 2017 by Throw Long Bannatyne

[Booch]

Mulumba could if that's truly the scheme we are running....which I have doubts on. He has better measurables than Hurl...actually close or better at some than Bear Woods..Tank Reed and Soliman...so he could handle that spot...Or you use him like a Ty Jones or James Parker and line him up all over and let him be a beast