The Turning Point

[Judd]

Aren't Halls and lapos contracts both up?

[Rod Black]

14 hours ago, TheSource said:

The only problem with this is that Bombers are on a projected path to finally make it to the GC in 3 or 4 more years at that rate. I will bet that Sask gets there either this year or next with their aggressive scouting and coaching. 

The problem with the Bombers is that next year and the year after they will be hard pressed to keep the core of the good Canadian veteran talent.

In the CFL you don't get 10 years to rebuild. I think Sask has the right idea in being more aggressive about this.

 

What a stupid comment. Using the SSK organization as a role model that the Winnipeg Blue Bombers should be following would embarrass our fans and franchise. 

[Old Bomber Fan]

First it isn't really a stupid comment....they have rebuilt is a short period of time, as has Edmonton with Mass and Ottawa in three years been to the cup twice, as has Hamilton after a dismal start finished strong, as has Toronto first in the east this year. While the eastern teams standings and records are below the Bombers it nonetheless shows you that teams can rebuild and must rebuild quickly in this league. Then again there are those who will continue to run into the dam hoping to bust it open and only get a sore head doing it. 

People on this forum have given MOS and the DC and the OC grace for the past 3 years saying they are getting better just look at their record. Are they really??? Record has improved, some good players are here, but the blunders in coaching remain. A defense that ranks near the bottom or at the bottom in most catagories except turnovers, and offense that for some reason abandons what is going well for them only to start a string of 2 and outs putting added pressure on the already beleaguered defense, and a HC that too often relies on gadget plays to make yards and hopefully a win. I personally believe you can go to the well only so often before it comes up dry...in this case he got away with what I would call a stupid gamble on our what 21 yard line and then tried a fake punt later on only to have that backfire and take the wind out of the sails of the entire team. It was very noticeable. The last second TD and 2 point convert, well what was that anyway......an attempt to make the score look better or what???? There remains significant issues with this team. While they have banded together well, let's see how well when free agency gets underway...how many will stay for another year if they feel they will be successful to win the grey cup...or will they bail for the money or a better chance at a cup. If they believe they have a great shot at the cup here in Winnipeg, then let them speak with their commitment.

The team needs better back ups, better techniques, better coaching period. LaPo and I will give him credit made progress this year but continues this trend to abandon what is working for something else. He did scheme to throw the ball long as the season went on good for him. Still lots of room for improvement. Hall has to go period! MOS has got to grow up and make better game time decisions and stop being so stubbornly loyal to players who are not performing, plain and simple. And for Walters he has to reevaluate his personnel, there are major upgrades to backup players required.

We will see next year but if I hear "oh we upgraded better than every other team this off season" without changing personnel a great deal, I will say what I said at the beginning of this year....look around other teams don't stand still as you might think....they too are looking to upgrade so ours had better be good. This year it wasn't!

[Tracker]

It was obvious when O'Shea was hired that there would be a learning curve but I think that he has had ample time now. I am 50/50 about him coming back next year, and the deciding vote will be cast when/if/how he chooses to deal with Hall and Hurl.

[pigseye]

Half time, the game was only close on the score board, Edmonton controlled the second half.

[Mark F]

49 minutes ago, Old Bomber Fan said:

The last second TD and 2 point convert, well what was that anyway...

During that last drive, Bob mentioned a near horrendous collision between Denmark, and another receiver.

Sometimes the "this team never quits" thing becomes silly, and they were lucky it seems, that no player was badly injured getting a pointless touchdown, when the game was absolutely over.

 

[Sard]

9 minutes ago, Mark F said:

During that last drive, Bob mentioned a near horrendous collision between Denmark, and another receiver.

Sometimes the "this team never quits" thing becomes silly, and they were lucky it seems, that no player was badly injured getting a pointless touchdown, when the game was absolutely over.

 

I believe the play you are referring to was Denmark and Dressler, but there was still over a minute left in the game.  Had they been able to score quickly on that drive, there was a chance for an onside kick and a shot for another TD, so at the point when that play happened, the game most definitely was not over.

[SPuDS]

3 minutes ago, Sard said:

I believe the play you are referring to was Denmark and Dressler, but there was still over a minute left in the game.  Had they been able to score quickly on that drive, there was a chance for an onside kick and a shot for another TD, so at the point when that play happened, the game most definitely was not over.

yup me too.. they did come close to running into each other but the DB had a bead on that ball anyway. If Denmark would have touched it, he would have been smashed.

[Rod Black]

1 hour ago, Old Bomber Fan said:

First it isn't really a stupid comment....they have rebuilt is a short period of time, as has Edmonton with Mass and Ottawa in three years been to the cup twice, as has Hamilton after a dismal start finished strong, as has Toronto first in the east this year. While the eastern teams standings and records are below the Bombers it nonetheless shows you that teams can rebuild and must rebuild quickly in this league. Then again there are those who will continue to run into the dam hoping to bust it open and only get a sore head doing it. 

People on this forum have given MOS and the DC and the OC grace for the past 3 years saying they are getting better just look at their record. Are they really??? Record has improved, some good players are here, but the blunders in coaching remain. A defense that ranks near the bottom or at the bottom in most catagories except turnovers, and offense that for some reason abandons what is going well for them only to start a string of 2 and outs putting added pressure on the already beleaguered defense, and a HC that too often relies on gadget plays to make yards and hopefully a win. I personally believe you can go to the well only so often before it comes up dry...in this case he got away with what I would call a stupid gamble on our what 21 yard line and then tried a fake punt later on only to have that backfire and take the wind out of the sails of the entire team. It was very noticeable. The last second TD and 2 point convert, well what was that anyway......an attempt to make the score look better or what???? There remains significant issues with this team. While they have banded together well, let's see how well when free agency gets underway...how many will stay for another year if they feel they will be successful to win the grey cup...or will they bail for the money or a better chance at a cup. If they believe they have a great shot at the cup here in Winnipeg, then let them speak with their commitment.

The team needs better back ups, better techniques, better coaching period. LaPo and I will give him credit made progress this year but continues this trend to abandon what is working for something else. He did scheme to throw the ball long as the season went on good for him. Still lots of room for improvement. Hall has to go period! MOS has got to grow up and make better game time decisions and stop being so stubbornly loyal to players who are not performing, plain and simple. And for Walters he has to reevaluate his personnel, there are major upgrades to backup players required.

We will see next year but if I hear "oh we upgraded better than every other team this off season" without changing personnel a great deal, I will say what I said at the beginning of this year....look around other teams don't stand still as you might think....they too are looking to upgrade so ours had better be good. This year it wasn't!

That’s an awful lot of nonsense you’ve supposedly written. You too can be glad we live in a country that you can waste time composing this ...whatever it is. 

Edited November 13, 2017 by Rod Black

[SpeedFlex27]

16 hours ago, DR. CFL said:

What a contridiction........we need 2 LBs....but it is the coaching ?   Seems that is a personnel issue......and  the DC.....plays who he is told to play....ie.....Make me Hurl....

Coaching is all about using personnel to its best ability. What do we see Hurl do all the time? Dive into the OL, get eliminated from the play while Gable goes the other direction for a touchdown. Hurl never even saw the handoff so he can't read the play. Meanwhile MOS says what a great job Hurl does taking on the guards. Does exactly what they ask, he says. Can't recall O'Shea doing that when he played. Or Muamba, Woods, Singleton, Sherritt or Elimimian. Just Hurl. I guess if throwing Hurl at the guards on every play is utilizing his skills in the best way possible then no wonder defensively  we're so bad. No, it ain't coaching... Right. 

[Jacquie]

17 hours ago, Eternal optimist said:

I gotta say it was very courteous of the refs to give him his challenge and timeout back when he tried to challenge Dressler's fumble that had already automatically been reviewed. He's lucky he didn't get called for delay of game. Does that mean he's too stupid to understand the challenge rules? Or is he so stubborn that he knew he couldn't challenge it, and just wanted to muck around with the refs anyways?

 O'Shea understands the challenge rules perfectly well and the officials don't give back challenges just to be nice. O'Shea challenged whether Dressler's progress had been stopped before the fumble which is challengeable. He was given the challenge back because the replay official had included that in his review but O'Shea had not been told.  The same thing happened in a game involving BC.

[Jacquie]

I think the turning point was the Bombers' brain fart of not snapping the ball on the third down gamble when the Eskimo went offside.

[SpeedFlex27]

1 minute ago, Jacquie said:

I think the turning point was the Bombers' brain fart of not snapping the ball on the third down gamble when the Eskimo went offside.

What got the Bombers angry is that the refs have been calling the defensive line whenever they jumped even if the ball wasn't snapped. What I didn't like about that was just call the play & snap the ball if they don't jump. Wasted a down for a FG. The Bombers should just worry about executing their plays & winning the game. 

[SpeedFlex27]

18 hours ago, blue_gold_84 said:

That weird decision basically set the tone for the rest of the quarter. The Eskimos used that momentum swing and dominated that 15-min. frame.

The third quarter was the difference today, IMO. And I have to think cause and effect plays a role and that shitty ass decision was the catalyst.

O'Shea's explanation was that they ran the fake to keep Mike Reilly off the field. That tells us even the HC knows the Bomber defense isn't very good. Of course, that takes us back to off season scouting decisions, free agent signings, politics by the coaches as to who plays & who sits, standing pat all this past season not bringing in others to push the starters on D at certain positions, staying with Hall as the DC, screwy personnel decisions like playing Roc Carmichael taking half a season to be replaced, Ryan Lankford playing over TJ Thorpe  & taking a year to figure out Coates was deserving of a starting position at receiver,  then set in stone ratio decisions at MLB. That failed punt fake was set in motion starting last December by all kinds of things the Bombers did yet failed to do to improve the defense overall  in the past year..

Edited November 13, 2017 by SpeedFlex27

[Fatty Liver]

2 hours ago, Noeller said:

All that matters here. Right call was made, execution let them down. 

That is taking the play out of context, there was no reason to call a fake at that time with poor field position in a tight fought play-off game.   It was a psychological punch to the gut for O'Shea, the team and every Bomber fan watching the game from which they did not recover.

Rewind the memory bank of inappropriate timing and this fake exceeds the stupidity of Medlock's failed pass attempt earlier in the season against BC.  No reason for that play call at that time.

[SpeedFlex27]

52 minutes ago, Throw Long Bannatyne said:

That is taking the play out of context, there was no reason to call a fake at that time with poor field position in a tight fought play-off game.   It was a psychological punch to the gut for O'Shea, the team and every Bomber fan watching the game from which they did not recover.

Rewind the memory bank of inappropriate timing and this fake exceeds the stupidity of Medlock's failed pass attempt earlier in the season against BC.  No reason for that play call at that time.

O'Shea said he was afraid of Reilly & wanted to keep him off the field. Which leads to desperation decisions like that.

[do or die]

.....and why would O'Shea be so concerned with keeping Reilly off the field?

He was right to be concerned....

 

[bluto]

3 hours ago, Rod Black said:

What a stupid comment. Using the SSK organization as a role model that the Winnipeg Blue Bombers should be following would embarrass our fans and franchise. 

Says you.

Welcome to the CFL where you can go from the outhouse to the penthouse in 1 season... especially if you already have a good core of players with good attitudes (you do).

My team is a perfect exemplar of doing exactly that (Viz: 2004, 2012).

 

 

 

...and maybe 2017 too!

Edited November 13, 2017 by bluto

[do or die]

With us....its a process...

[HardCoreBlue]

13 minutes ago, do or die said:

With us....its a process...

Yes a 27 year and counting process . . . But  

Gotta support the team

[Rod Black]

45 minutes ago, bluto said:

Says you.

Welcome to the CFL where you can go from the outhouse to the penthouse in 1 season... especially if you already have a good core of players with good attitudes (you do).

My team is a perfect exemplar of doing exactly that (Viz: 2004, 2012).

 

 

 

...and maybe 2017 too!

Yes. says me. Did your team use SSK as a model in 2004, 2012? 

[Eternal optimist]

5 hours ago, Jacquie said:

 O'Shea understands the challenge rules perfectly well and the officials don't give back challenges just to be nice. O'Shea challenged whether Dressler's progress had been stopped before the fumble which is challengeable. He was given the challenge back because the replay official had included that in his review but O'Shea had not been told.  The same thing happened in a game involving BC.

Interesting, good to know... I was at the game and they didn't announce any of that, they didn't even announce he was attempting to challenge. A bit of faith restored on an otherwise miserable Monday.

[bluto]

5 hours ago, Rod Black said:

Yes. says me. Did your team use SSK as a model in 2004, 2012? 

No.

In 2004 we were powered by the Pinball Cult of Personality and got hot when it mattered... and in 2012 we were Milo's Montreal Offence 2.0 with Jones' D and got hot when it mattered.

[blue_gold_84]

16 hours ago, HardCoreBlue said:

Yes a 27 year and counting process . . . But  

Gotta support the team

Or in the case of the current regime, 4 years.

I don't understand why Miller, Walters, and/or O'Shea should be held accountable for a drought that started 23 years prior to their being hired.

[HardCoreBlue]

1 hour ago, blue_gold_84 said:

Or in the case of the current regime, 4 years.

I don't understand why Miller, Walters, and/or O'Shea should be held accountable for a drought that started 23 years prior to their being hired.

True but from the loyal Bomber fan's perspective who have been around for that time, it's getting harder and harder to swallow not winning a cup in 27 years in a nine team league. If Edmonton gets to the Cup this year, We can't even say we're number 1 in most GC appearances anymore, we'd be tied I believe.

So whatever regime is in place now (four years and running) doesn't get as much patience whether they discount the previous 23 years or not. I think it's fair to say our patience is being tried here and to use the previous regime approach will not cut it. Imagine if Walters came out and said hey, we've only been in place here for four years, the previous 23 years aint our doing (which is true). I don't think that would help people be more patient.  Most sensible loyal fans aren't blaming Walters and company for the extended drought but don't use the hey not our fault we haven't won in a long time.  Doesn't help matters imo.