The Turning Point

[17to85]

20 hours ago, Throw Long Bannatyne said:

That is taking the play out of context, there was no reason to call a fake at that time with poor field position in a tight fought play-off game.   It was a psychological punch to the gut for O'Shea, the team and every Bomber fan watching the game from which they did not recover.

Rewind the memory bank of inappropriate timing and this fake exceeds the stupidity of Medlock's failed pass attempt earlier in the season against BC.  No reason for that play call at that time.

If they make it on that fake though it's a gut punch to the other team. It's football, you can't sit back and hope for the best all the time, sometimes you gotta take your chances. Make the play and gain momentum. In a hard fought evenly matched game (which it was for the most part) it comes down to who makes the big plays and who doesn't. 

[The Unknown Poster]

Im sure its been said (havent read the whole thread) but the turning point was retaining Hall after last season).

[blue_gold_84]

If you make the play, you gain momentum.  But if you biff the play, you lose momentum. That's the issue with high risk calls like that. And that's only magnified in a playoff game.

That decision, rather than punt the ball (which Medlock seemed to be doing well on Sunday) would also seem to indicate a lack of faith in the defense being able to stop the opposition. Not that it made any difference... Reilly and the Eskimos offense were unstoppable in the third quarter. 

[17to85]

That's why it's high risk, but sometimes you gotta take those chances. MOS gambled, they lost, it happens, but I like the balls he shows. Which is why it is puzzling to me that he is surrounded by spineless coordinators. 

[WBBFanWest]

27 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

That's why it's high risk, but sometimes you gotta take those chances. MOS gambled, they lost, it happens, but I like the balls he shows. Which is why it is puzzling to me that he is surrounded by spineless coordinators. 

And, there it is...  12-6

[BigBlueFanatic]

Going back before this game, my gut feeling was that Mo Leggett's achilles injury was going to sink this defence.  It's retrospect but I really wonder if it wouldn't have been better to put Randle at SAM linebacker when Mo went down. He made the transition before, and brilliantly so before his knee injury.  Yeah that breaks up the Randle/Heath tandem but as we witnessed, SAM linebacker absolutely requires equal measures athleticism, smarts and grit. 

[pigseye]

Why did we let Bruce Johnson go again? Must have been money because he wouldn't have lost his job due to performance. Johnson was a steady vet.

[bearpants]

On 11/13/2017 at 11:03 AM, Dr. Blue said:

 

This is really interesting... because my thought when watching it live (confirmed via replay) is the execution was poor... it looked like someone whiffed the block on Watson and he was able to saunter into the backfield to make the tackle... BTW, why is Cory Watson a better tackler than half of our defense??

Watch the replay:

https://www.cfl.ca/2017/11/12/recap-edmonton-39-winnipeg-32/

I'm not sure if this link takes you to the moment I paused it... if not, jump to 1:25... if Watson is blocked Flanders has a huge hole with nothing but green in front of him... I bet he gets at least 10 yards on the play...

[blue_gold_84]

54 minutes ago, pigseye said:

Why did we let Bruce Johnson go again? Must have been money because he wouldn't have lost his job due to performance. Johnson was a steady vet.

Yeah, and part of a secondary last season that made the same mistakes as this season. No other team even took a PR flyer on him, so that says something.

[pigseye]

45 minutes ago, blue_gold_84 said:

Yeah, and part of a secondary last season that made the same mistakes as this season. No other team even took a PR flyer on him, so that says something.

We did not give up as many busts in the secondary as we did this year or had to witness Roc Carmichael getting beat like a mule.

We lost the WSF because the secondary bust 3 times leading directly to 21 Edmonton points, plan and simple.

[Blueandgold]

29 minutes ago, pigseye said:

We did not give up as many busts in the secondary as we did this year or had to witness Roc Carmichael getting beat like a mule.

We lost the WSF because the secondary bust 3 times leading directly to 21 Edmonton points, plan and simple.

Guys like Carmichael and Sam Hurl getting to stay in the lineup is really what makes me question O’Shea more than anything else.

[blue_gold_84]

5 minutes ago, Blueandgold said:

Guys like Carmichael and Sam Hurl getting to stay in the lineup is really what makes me question O’Shea more than anything else.

There's that bullshit O'Shea Blind Loyalty narrative again.

Carmichael was replaced immediately when a better option was available. What was the alternative for Hurl, though? A pylon with wheels...?

[do or die]

Scouting dept. has to take its share of criticism, here.....as well.

[Noeller]

15 minutes ago, do or die said:

Scouting dept. has to take its share of criticism, here.....as well.

I think the only point I really care to make at this point is that there's enough blame to go around. The narrative around here is "RICHIE HALL SUXX00RS!11!" and it's ridiculous because there's so much more than that. There's a whole "big picture" thing that includes everyone, top down. 

[blue_gold_84]

1 minute ago, Noeller said:

I think the only point I really care to make at this point is that there's enough blame to go around. The narrative around here is "RICHIE HALL SUXX00RS!11!" and it's ridiculous because there's so much more than that. There's a whole "big picture" thing that includes everyone, top down. 

You're absolutely right. Of course the entire picture has to be considered and there is ample criticism to go around. However, Hall was on the hot seat last season and again this season for the same issues. The defense did not improve and one could argue that's been the weakest phase of the team - by a considerable margin - for two straight seasons. It felt like deja vu, to be perfectly honest.

A team should always look to improve, in all areas. There are more than a few areas of weakness right now, but the defensive system just happens to be the most glaring one.

[do or die]

You have to start making improvements based on areas of need.     D is clearly #1.

[Noeller]

18 minutes ago, blue_gold_84 said:

You're absolutely right. Of course the entire picture has to be considered and there is ample criticism to go around. However, Hall was on the hot seat last season and again this season for the same issues. The defense did not improve and one could argue that's been the weakest phase of the team - by a considerable margin - for two straight seasons. It felt like deja vu, to be perfectly honest.

A team should always look to improve, in all areas. There are more than a few areas of weakness right now, but the defensive system just happens to be the most glaring one.

I think one of my bigger issues with your statement is that you (nor anyone here) don't  know what his system is. We don't know what "problems" are systems, schemes, execution/talent, or otherwise.....we see that the team gave up lots of points and yards, but nobody here knows why exactly. Everyone's just guessing...

[blue_gold_84]

4 minutes ago, Noeller said:

I think one of my bigger issues with your statement is that you (nor anyone here) don't  know what his system is. We don't know what "problems" are systems, schemes, execution/talent, or otherwise.....we see that the team gave up lots of points and yards, but nobody here knows why exactly. Everyone's just guessing...

It's my opinion based on what I've seen for two seasons. Deduction based on observation. Despite personnel changes on defense, the same problems existed this season as in 2016. Is it a matter of a system not playing to the strengths of its personnel or the other way around? There is considerable talent on that side of the roster, so my conclusion is its the system. And eventually, something has to give. Replacing a DC is a lot easier than replacing an entire roster.

And what else were you expecting on a fan forum besides fans' opinions? We're all just expressing our opinions based on what we see.

My opinion at the end of the 2016 was Hall should've been fired. That opinion has only been tempered based on the 2017 season and WSF.

[do or die]

I guess...... that we play a lot of zone,  but poor tackling on the underneath stuff and CONTINUAL blown assignments on the deeper zone defenses, result in a plethora of big plays against us.   (7 of 25+ yards in the playoff game)  

I would also guess that improvement in these areas from last year, are not really apparent to the naked eye.....

Therefore, I speculate that a new DC is required.

Edited November 14, 2017 by do or die

[Noeller]

4 minutes ago, do or die said:

I guess...... that we play a lot of zone,  but poor tackling on the underneath stuff and CONTINUAL blown assignments on the deeper zone defenses, result in a plethora of big plays against us.   (7 of 25+ yards in the playoff game)  

I would also guess that improvement in these areas from last year, are not really apparent to the naked eye.....

Therefore, I speculate that a new DC is required.

how much of this is due to change in personnel and starting rookies on an entire half of the field? Speaking just for the WSF, you've got 2 rookies in Alexander and Walker, and a second year guy in Fogg all back there.....that's not usually a recipe for success...

[SPuDS]

42 minutes ago, Noeller said:

I think one of my bigger issues with your statement is that you (nor anyone here) don't  know what his system is. We don't know what "problems" are systems, schemes, execution/talent, or otherwise.....we see that the team gave up lots of points and yards, but nobody here knows why exactly. Everyone's just guessing...

but its ok for you to guess that lapo is simply out-thinking himself and calling bizarre plays and not listening to his spotters or positional coaches when he changes things...

 

you can critique people for making these assumptions on defense but its ok for you to do that towards the offense? those who live in glass houses..

*edit*

sigh.  I has the dumb apparently, sorry Dave. got youse 2 mixed up.

Edited November 14, 2017 by SPuDS
imma dumbass. not you, 17.. sigh. disregard. I shouldn't be posting while working apparently.

[Noeller]

1 minute ago, SPuDS said:

but its ok for you to guess that lapo is simply out-thinking himself and calling bizarre plays and not listening to his spotters or positional coaches when he changes things...

 

you can critique people for making these assumptions on defense but its ok for you to do that towards the offense? those who live in glass houses..

I did what now?

[do or die]

Question is......how much actual improvement have we seen from the young guys - from when they started .....to last week.    Take Fogg for instance.    He has looked lost in two positions (DHB and LB)

Edited November 14, 2017 by do or die

[Noeller]

1 minute ago, do or die said:

Question is......how much actual improvement have we seen from them - from when they started .....to last week.   

I think they had some brain farts, but to be honest, I thought Alexander and Walker looked pretty good for the most part this season and showed marked improvement as the season went along. I still think both of those guys are good finds, and while he's no Mo Leggett (who is??) I still believe Kevin Fogg is solid, and was playing the hardest position on the field the past couple weeks and for the most part, didn't totally embarrass himself...

[do or die]

Disagree .....thought Fogg and Walker looked terrible on Sunday