The Turning Point

[Rod Black]

Seems the D wilted later in the game, like last years WSF game only as a visiting team. This year we hosted a playoff game. If the trend is to continue to improve year over year, we win a playoff game next year, getting the team closer to the cup. The way we finished the season, todays result might not be a surprise, but it is disappointing.

[Colin Unger]

The outcome on this play was a key moment and the missed offside call on Edmonton were turning points. But I’m more concerned about correcting the correctinle issues. We need to fire Hall and replace him with Noel Thorpe.  We need our defense to become the strength on this team not the weakness. That will make a few key outcomes during the game a moot point. 

[TheSource]

3 minutes ago, Rod Black said:

Seems the D wilted later in the game, like last years WSF game only as a visiting team. This year we hosted a playoff game. If the trend is to continue to improve year over year, we win a playoff game next year, getting the team closer to the cup. The way we finished the season, todays result might not be a surprise, but it is disappointing.

The only problem with this is that Bombers are on a projected path to finally make it to the GC in 3 or 4 more years at that rate. I will bet that Sask gets there either this year or next with their aggressive scouting and coaching. 

The problem with the Bombers is that next year and the year after they will be hard pressed to keep the core of the good Canadian veteran talent.

In the CFL you don't get 10 years to rebuild. I think Sask has the right idea in being more aggressive about this.

 

[Doublezero]

2 hours ago, Captain Blue said:

I actually loved the call. Go be aggressive and try to win the game. 

Some calls work and some don't. That will be an easy one to latch onto as a mistake, but I don't mind being aggressive. 

I thought it was OK too. But why run it to the boundary side? You've got all that room on a 65-yard wide field for Flanders to get around the edge. He ran out of room. Plus, there was some weird mix-up on the play and the formation wasn't executed right. But if you're going to run these plays - run them to the wide side where there is space. That is the coaching error, not the play call.

[aalgernon]

1 hour ago, Super Duper Negatron said:

On the bright side I am more convinced than ever that Matt Nichols ends our grey cup drought.

God, I hope you're right. Your combination of username and this post at least make me feel somewhat optimistic.

Re: fake punt; definitely the turning point. Not saying that play alone was the reason we lost, but it was certainly the beginning of the end. It just wasn't the right time or place for it, around our 40 yard line. Way more potential risk than potential reward. Wait at least until we're on their side of the field. 

[Mark H.]

23 minutes ago, TheSource said:

The only problem with this is that Bombers are on a projected path to finally make it to the GC in 3 or 4 more years at that rate. I will bet that Sask gets there either this year or next with their aggressive scouting and coaching. 

The problem with the Bombers is that next year and the year after they will be hard pressed to keep the core of the good Canadian veteran talent.

In the CFL you don't get 10 years to rebuild. I think Sask has the right idea in being more aggressive about this.

 

Rebuilds are cheaper if you do them faster - well ok then. Whoever the cuss you are - you might want to look at what happened when Kevin Glenn was qb'ing an über talented team for Calgary. 

[Mark H.]

50 minutes ago, Goalie said:

But when things are true... Cuz missed tackles and blown coverage are on the players. No. I want hall gone also.. I just cant blame him for missed tackles and assignments

There is some serious talent on that D. Randle  & Heath are as good as anyone, ditto the entire DL. 

[do or die]

Wanted to add that Walker and Fogg looked clueless out there.......coaching or whatever...

[B-F-F-C]

Our defence played all right at the beginning of the season.  They weren't lights out but they played well enough.  However, these last 12 games have been an absolute **** show.

The difference?  I can't put my finger on it but my guess is that other teams figured it out but Hall is too useless to make the necessary adjustments. 

[wbbfan]

32 minutes ago, B-F-F-C said:

Our defence played all right at the beginning of the season.  They weren't lights out but they played well enough.  However, these last 12 games have been an absolute **** show.

The difference?  I can't put my finger on it but my guess is that other teams figured it out but Hall is too useless to make the necessary adjustments. 

Its been more up and down, and more the back field then that. JSK has been very very good at Lber. Wild was down, then mo went down. The DL with poop and nevis has been exceptional. We havent had consistent performance from the dbs. Last year, and in camp/pre season this year it seemed like we couldnt miss on a DB prospect. We went younger, and got worse.  System is some of that. I dont think any one has issue with randle or heath in general.  Fogg hasnt been the same since cooling off 2/3s of the way through last year.  

By position we are up in the air at worst with 2 db spots and 1 lber.(sam if mo doesnt recover in time or at all) 

We went from a low blitz usage, zone/match zone team that dropped all but 4 or 5 guys, and some times sent a DE back and only rushed 3-4, to a team sending 6 and 7 but with out  great pressure. Mos' involvement in the D doesnt mesh with halls system.  

Tackling gets bad for a lot of reasons. Trying to make a highlight reel hit and selling out, being worn out,  being out of position etc. Its also a preparedness thing. Poorer tackling is going to happen when you cant have hard full contact practices. More so now and moving forward you need guys who come in with a rep as a guy who will wrap and tackle. You wont be able to hammer it into guys and make them good  tacklers. 

I look at the ex bomber DBs in the league and its hard to imagine thats again a hole for us. I wish frederick was kept, and bruce johnson too. 

[do or die]

What bothers me....is that in the 19th game......our DB's still looked confused in zone coverage.    Beginning of season, ok.....but at this point, inexcusable.

[wbbfan]

12 minutes ago, do or die said:

What bothers me....is that in the 19th game......our DB's still looked confused in zone coverage.    Beginning of season, ok.....but at this point, inexcusable.

Bob mentioned it early in the post game show. At that point in the season you CANT have players un sure of their assignment. Imo thats gotta be gone before LD classic. 

Whats really bad is we saw that on offense too. Twice a WR was off the page with his route. (i have to assume at this point that nichols is on the page)

Perhaps a sign of too soft and friendly a coaching staff. (doug mentioned the coaches that got the best out of him where the hellfire and brimstone types) Or overly complicated / poorly explained systems. 

Coaching has to be better next year.  

[DR. CFL]

There doesn't appear to be much discussion about the lack of production of offensive TDs......red zone TD production was not good......resulting opinion FGs and not TDs.  Guessing that too is Hall's fault.

[Mark F]

8 hours ago, do or die said:

What bothers me....is that in the 19th game......our DB's still looked confused in zone coverage.    Beginning of season, ok.....but at this point, inexcusable.

 

I think all of these Defensive backs  are outstanding athletes, so it comes down to ability/desire to learn the playbook. And coach's ability to teach it to them.

 

What's the name of that play     "leave receiver running free thirty yards from line of scrimmage, right in the middle"?

 

 

 

[shadybob]

Of course the defensive issues played a role in the loss, but the fake punt scenario was just such an easy disaster to avoid. tie game, just punt it. That was the turning point and we never recovered. Hopefully Hall is gone next year though.

[Tracker]

13 hours ago, blue_gold_84 said:

I'm convinced it's the system. I can't honestly believe the personnel on the defense is as bad as it has looked in recent weeks, including today.

Randle, Heath, Loffler, Santos-Knox, Wild... These are all talented players capable of making an impact. I have to think the system in which they've played doesn't play to their collective strengths.

If you were running a hamburger restaurant and your cook kept burning the patties over and over and you did nothing about it, it is your problem. How long were we told that Roc was a good player? And don't get me started about Hurl.

[HardCoreBlue]

12 hours ago, Goalie said:

Missed tackles and blown coverage is a on coaching? Im no hall fan but... How is that coaching? 

I was thinking this as well. What did we have 4, 5, 6 blown coverages? Maybe 1 or at the most 2 I'll pin that on the player but if there's a pattern maybe the scheme laid out for them was confusing.

Regardless, very frustrating to see Bowman and Zylstra, their two best receivers, wide open on a regular basis. Unforgivable. Intolerable. 

If I hear explosion play once more, I'm gonna barf.

[Tracker]

2 hours ago, HardCoreBlue said:

I was thinking this as well. What did we have 4, 5, 6 blown coverages? Maybe 1 or at the most 2 I'll pin that on the player but if there's a pattern maybe the scheme laid out for them was confusing.

Regardless, very frustrating to see Bowman and Zylstra, their two best receivers, wide open on a regular basis. Unforgivable. Intolerable. 

If I hear explosion play once more, I'm gonna barf.

Mercifully, you will have a reprieve until at least next year.

[SPuDS]

14 hours ago, Goalie said:

Edmonton played good but i feel we were our own worst enemy today.. 

Cant tackle and blown coverages plus 3 turmovers to 0. Yup. Self inflicted

2 blown coverages is what I say did us in, that bomb to bowman where he was wide open and the toss into the middle where there was no LB or safety.. both plays broke our back.

[do or die]

Having 7 guys miss the tackle on another Moes TD, didn't help either.......

[Dr. Blue]

 

[blue_gold_84]

12 hours ago, B-F-F-C said:

Our defence played all right at the beginning of the season.  They weren't lights out but they played well enough.  However, these last 12 games have been an absolute **** show.

The difference?  I can't put my finger on it but my guess is that other teams figured it out but Hall is too useless to make the necessary adjustments. 

Statistically, the defense was worse in the first 7 games than the remaining 11.

The system is flawed, though. The same issues plagued the defense for the entirety of the season, as well as yesterday's WSF.

Hall needs to be relieved of his duties. Frankly, it should've happened last year.

[Goalie]

2 hours ago, tracker said:

If you were running a hamburger restaurant and your cook kept burning the patties over and over and you did nothing about it, it is your problem. How long were we told that Roc was a good player? And don't get me started about Hurl.

What if instead of burning the burgers... The cook told the other guys to make them instead and instead of cooking the burger they just sent it out raw. 

I mean... What a silly analogy comparing a pro sport to burning hamburgers.. I feel you try to hard. 

[Noeller]

20 minutes ago, Dr. Blue said:

 

All that matters here. Right call was made, execution let them down. 

[Tracker]

Firing Hall is not just about ridding the team of an incompetent coach. It also has to be about sending a clear message to the rest of the team (including the scouts and coaches) that continued bad performances will result in heads rolling. The players that have been giving their best are going to be disheartened if their efforts are being undermined by  bad coaching, the retention of players and coaches that are demonstrably bad and any kind of favouritism.

Edited November 13, 2017 by tracker