Blow out

[pigseye]

Worst second half of football ever. expand..........

Edited November 13, 2017 by pigseye

[B-F-F-C]

Are you getting paid to start redundant threads?   Because I can't think of any other reason for it.  

[pigseye]

Since none of you have a sack:

The best team won.

 

Edited November 13, 2017 by pigseye
because

[blue_gold_84]

Leave it to pigseye to bring up the genitalia of other people.

[Doublezero]

The collapse in the second half mirrored the overall collapse in the second half of the season. So the final score disguises an average team, just as the 12-6 record disguises a very average team.

[blueingreenland]

Average team? Depends how you define average I guess. So every team that loses in the playoffs is an average team? Hmm.

[aalgernon]

11 minutes ago, Doublezero said:

The collapse in the second half mirrored the overall collapse in the second half of the season. So the final score disguises an average team, just as the 12-6 record disguises a very average team.

A 12-6 record is legit - we won a lot of tough games. We are as good as our regular season record suggests. Doesn't mean we don't need to be better in the playoffs, though. 

[Doublezero]

Just now, blueingreenland said:

Average team? Depends how you define average I guess. So every team that loses in the playoffs is an average team? Hmm.

They backed in to the playoffs. Pretty much the worst D in the league in terms of yards allowed. Offense collapsed too in the last third of the season and scored something like one TD in the last four games. That is average, maybe even just barely average. And while other teams rallied: Sask - Tor - Ham - Esks ... Bombers gasped and, like I said, stumbled and tripped into the playoffs where they didn't really belong because they don't have good enough coaching or personnel. Early in the season they won a couple of games they could just as easily have lost (and lost a couple they could have won) but they are not among the best teams in the league.

[blue_gold_84]

27 minutes ago, Doublezero said:

The collapse in the second half mirrored the overall collapse in the second half of the season. So the final score disguises an average team, just as the 12-6 record disguises a very average team.

The Bombers went 5-4 in the second half of the season. And lost some key personnel during that time. That's hardly an "overall collapse."

To suggest a 12-6 team is average is absurd. A top tier offense and a top tier ST unit. This team is a few tweaks away, which means it's much better than average.

[wbbfan]

1 hour ago, blue_gold_84 said:

The Bombers went 5-4 in the second half of the season. And lost some key personnel during that time. That's hardly an "overall collapse."

To suggest a 12-6 team is average is absurd. A top tier offense and a top tier ST unit. This team is a few tweaks away, which means it's much better than average.

QFT, one can not forget that we lost Westerman (our best rush end) Mo (Our DPOTY) Bond (maybe our best ol) Adams (our best wr) and who knows who all may have played at less then full strength. Its bloody hard to lose 4 of your very best and over come that. 

Adams stretching the field opened up soo much in our offense. With westerman we could carry an extra DI, or an IMP mlber, bond plays an 'easier' position on the line but is our biggest miss match, and Mo could be our MoP candidate every single year. The best sam in the league. 

[ALuCsRED]

22 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

QFT, one can not forget that we lost Westerman (our best rush end) Mo (Our DPOTY) Bond (maybe our best ol) Adams (our best wr) and who knows who all may have played at less then full strength. Its bloody hard to lose 4 of your very best and over come that. 

Adams stretching the field opened up soo much in our offense. With westerman we could carry an extra DI, or an IMP mlber, bond plays an 'easier' position on the line but is our biggest miss match, and Mo could be our MoP candidate every single year. The best sam in the league. 

And the starting QB Nichols suffered separate  finger and calf injuries in the last half of the season, of which both caused lost playing time.

[O2L]

And our typically clutch kicker missed a game-winning field goal in Toronto. We were every bit as good as our record suggests. We beat every team in the league, and tonight, that included ourselves. 

[wbbfan]

20 minutes ago, ALuCsRED said:

And the starting QB Nichols suffered separate  finger and calf injuries in the last half of the season, of which both caused lost playing time.

Yeah, weeks off can be hard to over come like that. Not to mention possible un ease in handling the ball. 

[Guest J5V]

To the question of players vs coaching as to the real problem with a team, consider the Hamilton Tigercats. They started 0-8 under Kent Austin and then went 5-4, including a win against us, after installing June Jones and were the best team in the East from that point forward. Same players. How is that possible if it's all on the players? Don't buy it. It's 100% coaching.

Richie Hall, Paul LaPolice, and Mike O'Shea simply aren't good enough. Not good enough schemes. Not good enough play calling. Not good enough adjustments. That was never more clear enough to me than from the start of the second half of this game through to the end.

Hall for his confusing schemes, super-soft zone coverages, and shite half-time adjustments. He knew, we all knew, that it would be Reilly, Walker, Bowman, and Zylstra. Yet there was no answer. Just blown coverage after blown coverage and a MLB that couldn't stop my crippled 79 year old Mother from having a 3 touchdown game.

Lapo for his absolutely bizarre decision to go away from what was working, running Harris and Flanders and getting 8 yards a carry, to his play calling that left the Bombers constantly facing 3rd and 2, 3, 4 yards. I say "bizarre" because I can't think of a stronger word to describe the absolute lunacy of abandoning something that is working for something that clearly isn't. I'm sure Benevedes was delighted.

O'Shea for being completely owned by Jason Maas. He was ready for O'Shea's tricks and O'Shea should be humiliated and embarrassed by his performance today. He had no answers for the ease with which Edmonton moved the ball and was single-handedly responsible for surrendering his team's momentum at the most critical moment of a tie game. It was a blunder of epic proportions that lead to a checkmate in a chess match that saw one army annihilate the other. A complete crack, a choke, a total meltdown under pressure, at home, in our first playoff game at IGF. 

I too feel sorry, angry, and humiliated for players like Matt Nichols and Andrew Harris as well as the fans, the 27,000 that witnessed it live, and the ones that bleed blue and gold blood for this team. We all deserve better than we got from those three coaches today. If only we had managed in our exhaustive search to somehow land Popp and Trestman, instead of Walters and O'Shea, I can't help but wonder if our fortunes would be different. Alas, they're not. It's four years and counting under this regime now without a playoff win. May as well sign them up for another contract extension and see if we can make it a solid decade of playoff futility. Hard to believe that the Riders won a playoff game before we did.

Best of luck to Edmonton, Calgary, Toronto, and Saskatchewan. We'll be watching with envy from the sidelines. Yet again.

[kelownabomberfan]

3 minutes ago, J5V said:

 

Best of luck to Edmonton, Calgary, Toronto, and Saskatchewan. We'll be watching with envy from the sidelines. Yet again.

I won't be.  I'm done.  Grandpa Glenn vs. Grandpa Ray, while BLM out-duels Reilly yet again.  Yawn.  Same old same old.

[Mr Dee]

21 hours ago, J5V said:

Richie Hall, Paul LaPolice, and Mike O'Shea simply aren't good enough.

You’ve been waiting a long time to stick it to O’Shea. And I guess you feel vindicated.

But nothing will convince me otherwise, that there was really only one soft spot on this team...and that was on defence. The defence couldn’t cut it, and was a combination of the type of defence and a couple of players who just couldn’t figure out their assignments. It wasn’t a good way to enter the playoffs, and yet, it was still possible to win. 

That last game showed that blown assignments were still a sticking point for this team and led to multiple TDs. No other team had as many blown assignments or coverages. That is/was a fatal flaw. Enough to make changes. Hopefully to the DC.

But c’mon, everybody?  That’s just plain ludicrous.

 

Edited November 14, 2017 by Mr Dee

[Guest J5V]

6 minutes ago, Mr Dee said:

You’ve been waiting a long time to stick it to O’Shea. And I guess you feel vindicated.

But nothing will convince me otherwise, that there was really only one soft spot on this team...and that was on defence. The defence couldn’t cut it, and was a combination of the type of defence and a couple of players who just couldn’t figure out their assignments. It wasn’t a good way to enter the playoffs, and yet, it was still possible to win. 

That last game showed that blown assignments were still a sticking point for this team and led to multiple TDs. No other team had as many blown assignments or coverages. That is/was a fatal flaw. Enough to make changes. Hopefully to the DC.

But c’mon, everybody?  That’s just plain ludicrous.

I like Mike. I do. The one time I saw him we smiled and waved at each other. I've never met Paul LaPolice or Richie Hall but I assume they're very nice gentlemen. However, I suspect they aren't very good at their jobs compared to their competitors across the league. The one's in the playoffs at least. You know, the ones we need to beat to win a championship.

For four years it has been Mike O'Shea's team. His coordinators. His players. His everything. He's the man and the face of the organization. He runs the team. Makes the roster decisions. Does the pressers. He has final say on all the important decisions. He has been completely supported by Wade and Kyle. I'm told all the players support him. The fans, for the most part, support him and he's got a contract that'll take him into 2019. If he wins a Grey Cup with the Bombers he'll be the most loved man in Winnipeg. Mike has nothing to fear from me, Dee. Relax. I'm just one fan with an opinion and you know what they say about opinions. 

[blue_gold_84]

8 hours ago, J5V said:

I like Mike. I do. The one time I saw him we smiled and waved at each other. I've never met Paul LaPolice or Richie Hall but I assume they're very nice gentlemen. However, I suspect they aren't very good at their jobs compared to their competitors across the league. The one's in the playoffs at least. You know, the ones we need to beat to win a championship.

What was wrong with LaPolice's offense this season? Not much until injuries mounted later in the season. Nichols, Adams, and Harris all had career seasons, so how is LaPolice not good at his job, much less in comparison to other OCs in the league? The offense was among the league's best and hands down the brightest spot on this team in 2017, so I'm pretty sure the OC deserves at least some credit there. What was wrong with the offense on Sunday? Nichols: 35/48 (72.9%), 371 yards, 3 TDs. Harris: 7 touches for 120 yards. Dressler with 100+ yards. Coates with 100 yards. Nearly 500 total yards of offense. That's more than sufficient to win a playoff game. The offense did more enough all season and in the playoffs to give the team opportunities to succeed.

Hall's defense is what let down the team in the post-season. Same as last year. It's cliché but it's accurate as hell: defense wins championships.

[SPuDS]

15 hours ago, J5V said:

I like Mike. I do. The one time I saw him we smiled and waved at each other. I've never met Paul LaPolice or Richie Hall but I assume they're very nice gentlemen. However, I suspect they aren't very good at their jobs compared to their competitors across the league. The one's in the playoffs at least. You know, the ones we need to beat to win a championship.

For four years it has been Mike O'Shea's team. His coordinators. His players. His everything. He's the man and the face of the organization. He runs the team. Makes the roster decisions. Does the pressers. He has final say on all the important decisions. He has been completely supported by Wade and Kyle. I'm told all the players support him. The fans, for the most part, support him and he's got a contract that'll take him into 2019. If he wins a Grey Cup with the Bombers he'll be the most loved man in Winnipeg. Mike has nothing to fear from me, Dee. Relax. I'm just one fan with an opinion and you know what they say about opinions. 

ya the OC of the highest scoring team in the league and second highest scoring team offensively isn't doing his job right..

 

 

so its perfection or death then, is it?  lol

[Guest J5V]

Do you want to make the playoffs or win a championship?

[wbbfan]

1 hour ago, SPuDS said:

ya the OC of the highest scoring team in the league and second highest scoring team offensively isn't doing his job right..

 

 

so its perfection or death then, is it?  lol

Not necessarily.  Its possible to have a poor coach and a good unit. Great talent, the right bunch of guys etc. Or for a coach to be great at teaching, but wanting in play call or strategizing.  Generally Id say a coach is never as bad as they might seem, or as good.  A coach can also do a great/picky job of taking co spots. Bruce arians is known as the qb whisperer, but if he wasnt pressent would big ben, carson palmer, andrew luck, and peyton manning be any less great?

We have issues on offense, no doubt about it. The fact that we go such long streaks with out moving the ball, not being able to convert in the red zone (tds), and execute poorly on the first drive of each half points to that. Some offenses score far less over all, but more consistently, and move the ball more consistently. 

If any thing our feast or famine scoring points to play makers making plays. Rather then our coaching staff manufacturing drives. Id wager we are among the poorest teams on those 2  drives. The most heavily pre planned and practiced drives of the game. That first drive is a pre planned 10-15 plays that we drill all week. Our offense in fact is dramatically better in the hurry up. Id rather see nichols call the plays then plop.  No doubt he has put in some very good wrinkles and design plays. But they come out at sub optimal to poor times, and end up predictable. We also havent used package guys, offensive DIs / flanders as more then distractions. 

The lack of option use with fever/davis in their action in the regular season. Then we whip it out pulling nichols for extended periods in a play off game.  Destroying the edm front 7 with the run after going 2 and out, then promptly abandoning the run play. Can you imagine if we ran the ball a reliable 20 times a game with both flanders and harris getting touches? Play action to one then toss to the other? some trap off toss stuff with both a 2 back set or one in the wing/slot?  We used flanders out of the slot some, but not harris. Imo harris is clearly the better pass catcher. But why not show both? 

Plop has been effective enough and shown improvement enough to keep and hope it continues. But if we lost him it wouldnt be like when we nearly lost marshall as DC in the swaggerville era. Good is the enemy of great. We have a good offense. Good enough to win games,  good enough to win a grey cup. But not with our current defense. Which is also good enough to win but not great.  

[wbbfan]

6 minutes ago, J5V said:

Do you want to make the playoffs or win a championship?

This is a serious and hard question that has to be asked. Its easier to go from a bad team to a play off team, then to go from a good team to a great team. Imo, making the play offs every year for the next 8 seasons making a run of 10 years but not winning the grey cup, should not be the goal. 

[Jpan85]

39 minutes ago, J5V said:

Do you want to make the playoffs or win a championship?

Need to make the playoffs to win a championship

[Floyd]

Replace Richie hall and this team is a grey cup contender with current personnel

replace hurl and add free agent receiver - grey cup favourite

[17to85]

14 hours ago, Floyd said:

Replace Richie hall and this team is a grey cup contender with current personnel

replace hurl and add free agent receiver - grey cup favourite

I would suggest the team in it's current state is already a grey cup contender Ritchie Hall and all. Gotta remember Edmonton was also a 12 win team. Can't all be lucky enough to play in the shitty eastern conference where showing up is often enough to win a game in the playoffs.