What Changes do the Bombers Need this Off-season to Improve the Team?

[BBRT]

1 minute ago, J5V said:

I doesn't matter what we think. O'Shea said he was happy with the D except for the part about all the yardage surrendered, and tape needs to be looked at to see why that is. Then he'll decide on what to do like he did about Hurl, Carmichael, Thorpe, etc.

So what you are saying is that there is no hope?

[Mr Dee]

3 minutes ago, J5V said:

I doesn't matter what we think. O'Shea said he was happy with the D except for the part about all the yardage surrendered, and tape needs to be looked at to see why that is. Then he'll decide on what to do like he did about Hurl, Carmichael, Thorpe, etc.

So, you’re stumped for an answer?

[BBRT]

3 minutes ago, Mr Dee said:

So, you’re stumped for an answer?

Well if Richie Hall is back - there is always 2019!

[Tracker]

3 hours ago, J5V said:

I doesn't matter what we think. O'Shea said he was happy with the D except for the part about all the yardage surrendered, and tape needs to be looked at to see why that is. Then he'll decide on what to do like he did about Hurl, Carmichael, Thorpe, etc.

If O'Shea hasn't been looking at the "tapes" all season, this year and last, then he needs to be walked to the door as soon as possible.

[Engelwood]

On 11/14/2017 at 9:15 AM, 17to85 said:

So I know that Hall is the whipping boy, but it's interesting to me that so many people are pegging it on being not aggressive enough... I saw a too aggressive game plan vs. Edmonton to be honest. They blitzed and they blitzed a ton and Reilly just made plays down field. Likely woulda done better actually playing that passive game. Also I am pretty sure I saw Bowman catch 2 touchdowns because the rookie side of our backfield made the wrong call and left him uncovered. Is that on the coordinator or rookie mistakes? Maybe we need to stop and ask ourselves why we are always playing a bunch of rookies in the secondary and how many busts that causes... 

 

Once again people aren't being critical of the offense but come on, if Lapo stuck with Harris there was a chance to get a lead in that game, but no we come out throwing and have 2 completions and still punt the ball, then we pound Harris down their throats and stop using him in the redzone and kick a field goal rather than giving ourselves a shot at the touchdown. It's **** like that holds this team back more than anything. Lapo outsmarts himself and does the defensive coordinators job for him by stopping what's working before the D actually stops it. 

You say all of this but how do you know that the play was not changed at the line due to Defensive alignment. As you said and it was obvious that the rookies cause mistakes, these rookie WR on multiple occasions did not run to the correct depth on routes and the pass was either off target or short of the first down.

 

Edited November 16, 2017 by Engelwood

[Engelwood]

As for changes next year

1. New MLB - Hurl is not the answer
2. New DC - I am sick of the bend but don't break, we had it in the early 2000's, early 2010's and now. And guess what we did not win a grey cup
3. New WR - We need a speed guy that will break the field open. Re-sign Dressler and Adams, I want to see what Givens can bring after a training camp and I think Coates and Wolitarsky will be good for NA content
4. Not a change but sign all the Oline
5. Backup DB/SAM LB - I want someone who will be a good SAM backup and to fill in for Moe while he rehabs
6. Back-up QB's

[blue_gold_84]

14 hours ago, J5V said:

I doesn't matter what we think. O'Shea said he was happy with the D except for the part about all the yardage surrendered, and tape needs to be looked at to see why that is.

When did he say he was happy with the defense? The two things he praised about the defense the last two seasons were the 100 takeaways and defensive points scored. He stated explicitly the team needs to change what it's doing on defense, and giving up the yardage it has needs to be minimized in order to win a championship. That doesn't at all like someone who's happy with his team's defensive system.

[WBBFanWest]

15 minutes ago, blue_gold_84 said:

When did he say he was happy with the defense? The two things he praised about the defense the last two seasons were the 100 takeaways and defensive points scored. He stated explicitly the team needs to change what it's doing on defense, and giving up the yardage it has needs to be minimized in order to win a championship. That doesn't at all like someone who's happy with his team's defensive system.

You're right.  I don't think he ever said he was happy with the defense.  I did like the questions that were being asked, but I wish that when he talked about 100 takeaways in 2 years, someone would have pointed out that while we did have a good number of them this year, there was a sharp decline (17 I think) between 2016 and 2017.  So even the thing that he's most happy about saw a  pretty significant drop this year.  Would have been nice to hear how he'd respond to that.

When you look at the way O'Shea usually goes out of his way to not speak ill of any situation or person, the fact that he said that there were some problems that need to get fixed tells me that he's laying the ground work for a change.  If he really didn't think that, we would have gotten a shrug and a "we'll look at the tape, but I'm not overly worried" response.   

[blue_gold_84]

http://3downnation.com/2017/11/15/bombers-defensive-coordinator-richie-hall-will-undergo-thorough-review-by-mike-oshea/

Good quotes from O'Shea in here on the defense. Some notable - and ugly (bolded) - statistics regarding the defense, too:

Quote

Winnipeg allowed the most offensive points (478) and offensive touchdowns (51) among West Division teams, Hamilton and Montreal gave up more in both categories. Opponent passing touchdowns (33) ranked tied for last in the league.

The Bombers were one of two teams to allowed over 7,000 yards of offence in 2017, the Alouettes being the other. Despite the gaudy total Winnipeg came away with 42 turnovers, second in the CFL, 25 of them interceptions to lead all teams, and scored 166 points from the pilfers to pace the league.

116 pressures were recorded which ranked third in the three-down circuit. However, Winnipeg allowed the most passing yards league-wide with 5,788.

 

[Mark F]

14 hours ago, tracker said:

If O'Shea hasn't been looking at the "tapes" all season, this year and last, then he needs to be walked to the door as soon as possible.

"tapes"

it's not easy  keeping those VCRs in operating shape!

also "film"  

no more posting today, going to go listen to some tunes on my walkman!

 

Edited November 16, 2017 by Mark F

[Marshall]

I'm not sure exactly who is to blame for our defensive issues. At times we were rock solid and then gave up some big plays. I don't think it's all on Hall. In the West Semi, no way Bowman should be wide open in the end zone twice or Gable running up the middle at will in the second half.

Players were obviously out of position on those plays and they need to be analyzed. Was it all player mistakes or the defensive scheme.  I tend to think its a combination of both. 

I think we have the talent on defence and I also think Hall's defence looked very good at times. Correct this and we win. This is what O'shea will try to do.

[SPuDS]

14 hours ago, tracker said:

If O'Shea hasn't been looking at the "tapes" all season, this year and last, then he needs to be walked to the door as soon as possible.

you honestly can't be serious.

 

of course he was reviewing tape all year.. he's just meaning he has to do a final review and make his decisions..

[17to85]

4 hours ago, blue_gold_84 said:

http://3downnation.com/2017/11/15/bombers-defensive-coordinator-richie-hall-will-undergo-thorough-review-by-mike-oshea/

Good quotes from O'Shea in here on the defense. Some notable - and ugly (bolded) - statistics regarding the defense, too:

 

Sounds to me like it wasn't a bend but don't break defense, sounds like it was pretty aggressive but the players got beat too many times. 

[blue_gold_84]

8 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Sounds to me like it wasn't a bend but don't break defense, sounds like it was pretty aggressive but the players got beat too many times. 

Yeah, it was a bend and break defense. Players got beat on blown coverage, busted assignments, and biffed positioning pretty much all season. And it happened to veterans and rookies alike.

[Tracker]

6 hours ago, SPuDS said:

you honestly can't be serious.

 

of course he was reviewing tape all year.. he's just meaning he has to do a final review and make his decisions..

I was posting with my tongue in cheek, but my point is that if our beloved head coach hasn't accumulated enough data yet to make an informed decision about Hall, I do not think that reviewing more video testimony will make a difference.

[blue_gold_84]

Kyle Walters touched on the defense during his presser today:

[pigseye]

So even Kyle admits 'not championship level' that pretty much settles the contender argument.

[blue_gold_84]

9 minutes ago, pigseye said:

So even Kyle admits 'not championship level' that pretty much settles the contender argument.

Don't be daft. Read what he actually said, instead of putting your pitiful spin on it.

[SpeedFlex27]

On ‎11‎/‎14‎/‎2017 at 9:27 AM, do or die said:

Might also want to ask why the rooks in the secondary.....don't see to progress, as the season wears on and why the tackling techniques continue to be so bad.    

And yes, Lapo gets too cute, by half at times....particularly in the redzone.   

 

Tackling techniques are bad because the CFL teams don't practice in pads anymore. You can't go full out in drills focusing on fundamentals with little or no protection.  

[blue_gold_84]

1 minute ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Tackling techniques are bad because the CFL teams don't practice in pads anymore. You can't go full out in drills focusing on fundamentals with little or no protection.  

Other teams didn't seem to have such glaring issues with tackling. And they all adhere to the same practice rules.

[SpeedFlex27]

32 minutes ago, blue_gold_84 said:

Kyle Walters touched on the defense during his presser today:

Halleujah, a beacon of light down a dark tunnel. Maybe there is some hope that Kyle Walters does understand the defensive problems & there will be changes. 

[SpeedFlex27]

Just now, blue_gold_84 said:

Other teams didn't seem to have such glaring issues with tackling. And they all adhere to the same practice rules.

It will become a problem. League wide but the CFL is trying to do something about player safety. 

[blue_gold_84]

Just now, SpeedFlex27 said:

It will become a problem. League wide but the CFL is trying to do something about player safety. 

I doubt that. Teams like the Stampeders have gone on record saying they don't practice in pads and their defense was arguably the best in 2017. I didn't see many whiffed or missed tackles from them.

[Booch]

If we get Bryant inked...re-up Dressler and find 1 dominant game breaking receiver, and 1 dominant game altering linebacker, and 1 complimentary DB....we will be just fine...small needs to focus, but vital ones for sure

[SpeedFlex27]

1 minute ago, blue_gold_84 said:

I doubt that. Teams like the Stampeders have gone on record saying they don't practice in pads and their defense was arguably the best in 2017. I didn't see many whiffed or missed tackles from them.

They still practiced until the rule changes. Now, every team is the same. So, I expect you'll see more whiffed tackles or even injuries from making tackles. I could be wrong but that's what I think. Even professionals need to practice fundamentals. They get sloppy if they don't.