When do we fire Richie Hall?

[wbbfan]

1 minute ago, johnzo said:

Ritchie was the Blue Bomber STC in 1990.

I took a spin thru https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Lists_of_Canadian_Football_League_head_coaches_by_team and the only non-Trestmans I can find who jumped straight into a CFL HC job in the semi-recent past are Bart Andrus, Dan Hawkins, Forrest Gregg, and Daryl Rogers. 

Not a real distinguished list, and very little to suggest that you can hire a guy straight out of the US and instantly turn your program around.  You need a guy with CFL experience. 

(There's also Jack Pardee, Pepper Rodgers, Ron Meyer, and Kaye Stephenson from the US expansion days.  I don't count those guys because they didn't have to play by the same roster rules as the rest of the league. tho Stephenson had an undistinguished year in Edmonton in the nineties.  I think that was the same year that Dave Archer bit a guy's finger.)

Ahh good catch. Didnt know that. 

 

[blueandgoldguy]

On 11/28/2017 at 5:59 PM, Noeller said:

the whole "hire the best guys!" argument is so  old and tired. It's been debunked forever. The unfortunate reality is that we're talking about Winnipeg. We have a great new stadium and a stable hierarchy at the top, but we're still Winnipeg who hasn't won in a billion years and are not the most desirable city to live in (especially compared to Toronto, Vancouver, Montreal, etc...) 

I remember Lawless going over all this before MOS was hired and saying "Listen, we're never going to get the Trestman's or Huff's of the world, so what we have to do is hire the very  best rookie we can get, and pray they develop"......

Is Calgary some sort of utopia compared to Winnipeg?  Their stadium and facilities sure ain't

[Guest J5V]

10 minutes ago, blueandgoldguy said:

Is Calgary some sort of utopia compared to Winnipeg?  Their stadium and facilities sure ain't

Calgary, like Toronto, isn't afraid to pay for good, experienced personnel.

[Mr Dee]

Kavis Reed is experienced...

[SpeedFlex27]

22 minutes ago, blueandgoldguy said:

Is Calgary some sort of utopia compared to Winnipeg?  Their stadium and facilities sure ain't

McMahon Stadium is ****. Listen, in 5 years that team will be down so far in the standings they'll be lucky to not finish last in the entire league. Hufnagel, Dickinson & Bo Levi Mitchell will be ghosts seen wandering the narrow concourses under the stands at night. You'll be able to blow a cannonball thru the west grandstand & not hit anyone.  I think the end of their long run is almost here. 

Edited December 1, 2017 by SpeedFlex27

[blueandgoldguy]

Perhaps O'Shea and Walters will end up being the Bomber'  Danny Barrett and Roy Shivers.  Shivers, then Barrett were hired by the Saskatchewan Roughriders organization in 2000 after a particularly pathetic era of football under GM Al Ford with one fluky cup run in 1997 - sound familar?  Saskatchewan struggled in the duo's  first 2 seasons failing to qualify for the playoffs, but things started to turn around in season 3.  They followed that up with back-to-back Western Final appearances but ultimately failed to make it to the Grey Cup game, let alone win it.

Shivers was relieved of his duties part way through the 2006 season while Barrett was replaced in 2007.   Both brought respectability and a winning attitude back to the Rider organization yet due to their inability to attract enough talent and coach the players to the best of their abilities they never quite achieved the status as a legit Grey Cup contender or favorite.  In the end, the Riders hired more capable individuals in 2006 and 2007 and the team appeared in 3 Grey Cups over the next 4 seasons, winning once (probably should have won two including 2009).

Could it be possible that the Bombers will have to move on from Kyle Walters and Mike O'Shea and replace them with 1) a GM who has better connections down south - improving  weak spots on the Bomber roster (MLB, receiver, backup QB) and also improving depth with cheap International Talent and 2) a coach who makes better in-game decisions and is quick to recognize players' shortcomings in certain positions.

We might find out as soon as the end of next season.  If the Bombers are not in a division final next year, one or both of O'Shea and Walters will be gone.  That you can be certain of.

[17to85]

I'd think our guys can be better than Danny Barrety and Roy Shivers, for one thing our guys aren't trying to pretend that Nealon Greene can be a qb. 

[Tracker]

2 hours ago, 17to85 said:

I'd think our guys can be better than Danny Barrety and Roy Shivers, for one thing our guys aren't trying to pretend that Nealon Greene can be a qb. 

Shivers brought in some good players but didn't care about their attitudes or thugishness- strongly reminiscent of Chris Jones' attitude.

[SpeedFlex27]

21 minutes ago, tracker said:

Shivers brought in some good players but didn't care about their attitudes or thugishness- strongly reminiscent of Chris Jones' attitude.

Who was the Rider who had Aids & was sleeping with women all around Regina? He was charged & went to trial. 

[Tracker]

2 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Who was the Rider who had Aids & was sleeping with women all around Regina? He was charged & went to trial. 

He was a linebacker(Trevis Smith) who was convicted with a six-year sentence. He served two years and was deported. There were other players of that era rumoured to have been caught doing stupid things but things got hushed up.

[rebusrankin]

5 hours ago, Mark F said:

Most of the good CFL head coachs  have been Americans. kindly Cal was an exception.

 There are far more situations there where a person can learn about the game.

 

The CFL's all time leader in coaching wins is a Canadian, Wally Buono.

[Mark F]

 

1 hour ago, rebusrankin said:

The CFL's all time leader in coaching wins is a Canadian, Wally Buono.

ok. didn't know that.

Just checked. last thirty grey cups, 6 Canadian head coaches. The rest were Americans.

So there have been two great Canadian CFL coaches.

Edited December 1, 2017 by Mark F

[SpeedFlex27]

48 minutes ago, Mark F said:

 

ok. didn't know that.

Just checked. last thirty grey cups, 6 Canadian head coaches. The rest were Americans.

So there have been two great Canadian CFL coaches.

Who are you referring to?

[Mark F]

5 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Who are you referring to?

Cal and Wally

[Guest J5V]

Yup, but hey, let's keep lining up the rookie Canadian coaches and GMs. Brilliant strategy.

[Atomic]

15 hours ago, J5V said:

America is a football factory full of thousands of players and hundreds of coaches at the NCAA level and beyond but the arguments against searching for a good coach from there and getting him up to the 'Peg are i)they'd never come to an undesirable place like Winnipeg and/or, ii)there just aren't any anywhere, and/or, iii)they aren't any good. Therefore, our best strategy is to hire inexperienced, unproven rookie head coaches and general managers, preferably at the same time.

Is this really the best you guys can come up with because, frankly, I'm unconvinced and was hoping for better. It's still looking and smelling like chicken **** and not chicken soup.

Still no names.  This is getting sad.

[WBBFanWest]

3 hours ago, J5V said:

Yup, but hey, let's keep lining up the rookie Canadian coaches and GMs. Brilliant strategy.

You know what?  When they were first hired I was as vocal as anyone about how I saw this as a really bad idea.  Walters was hired because he was down the hall from Miller and was therefore, cheap.  O'Shea was hired because he had a pretty thin resume and would be, yep, cheap.  I figured that their regime would be more of the same, floundering, failure and eventually, replacement.   But after 4 years, I'm happy to admit that I was wrong.  Is Walters the best GM ever?  No, but he's certainly done a good job in drafting and acquiring national talent. Ya he needs to do a better job with his scouts in unearthing US based players, but I'd rather have it this way than the Mack way.   And O'Shea had grown into what appears to be a pretty good head coach.  Not Cal Murphy good, but he's still got ceiling to reach, I think.

Moral of the story:  you need to let this "hiring rookies" crap go.  We hired rookies four years ago, but we don't have rookies anymore.  Let it go and find some other windmill to tilt at.

[BBRT]

Ok it is now December 1st 2017 - Why is Richie Hall still our DC? Inquiring minds want to know!

[Jesse]

29 minutes ago, BBRT said:

Ok it is now December 1st 2017 - Why is Richie Hall still our DC? Inquiring minds want to know!

Perhaps he's convinced them that with a new MLB and experienced corners he can do better. 

[M.O.A.B.]

I would think the DC candidates are waiting who gets the HC position in MTL and what DC position opens up.

I believe Claybrooks, Chamblin, Benavidez and Washington are all candidates on that HC gig.

Like Thorpe, he might be interested in the Argos DC position if Chamblin gets the job. Or he would prefer to ne with the Stamps if Claybrooks is it.

So many variables. Maybe Oshea doesnt want to let go Hall unless hes sure theres someone coming.

Edited December 1, 2017 by M.O.A.B.

[SPuDS]

4 hours ago, J5V said:

Yup, but hey, let's keep lining up the rookie Canadian coaches and GMs. Brilliant strategy.

You honestly think we need to bring in a new GM and coach at this point??  I'm pretty comfortable at the moment with how our management team looks.

[Atomic]

19 minutes ago, M.O.A.B. said:

I would think the DC candidates are waiting who gets the HC position in MTL and what DC position opens up.

I believe Claybrooks, Chamblin, Benavidez and Washington are all candidates on that HC gig.

Like Thorpe, he might be interested in the Argos DC position if Chamblin gets the job. Or he would prefer to ne with the Stamps if Claybrooks is it.

So many variables. Maybe Oshea doesnt want to let go Hall unless hes sure theres someone coming.

How about Rich Stubler?

[M.O.A.B.]

8 minutes ago, Atomic said:

How about Rich Stubler?

Rumor is Stubler is also a candidate for the HC. Also, if Claybrooks gets the job he is a strong candidate as DC.

And I believe Stubler has turned down the Bombers multiple times already. So I would l like to think hes not interested in coming to Winnipeg.

Edited December 1, 2017 by M.O.A.B.

[Guest J5V]

1 hour ago, WBBFanWest said:

Moral of the story:  you need to let this "hiring rookies" crap go.  We hired rookies four years ago, but we don't have rookies anymore.  Let it go and find some other windmill to tilt at.

So you also believe that the only choice we had was to hire a rookie coach and a rookie GM? The only choice? Because that's what was claimed and it's a crock! But hey, good to know which side of logic and reason you're on. 

[WBBFanWest]

2 minutes ago, J5V said:

So you also believe that the only choice we had was to hire a rookie coach and a rookie GM? The only choice? Because that's what was claimed and it's a crock! But hey, good to know which side of logic and reason you're on. 

The only choice?  No, but it was the choice that was made, FOUR YEARS AGO.  So if you are still whining about this after this long, the issue is not who they hired, it's about who's looking back at you in the mirror.