When do we fire Richie Hall?

[Guest J5V]

35 minutes ago, SPuDS said:

You honestly think we need to bring in a new GM and coach at this point??  I'm pretty comfortable at the moment with how our management team looks.

I never said that, did I? Why so obtuse? I simply disagreed with the assertion that rookie coaches and Gms were the only way to go. But you already know that, don't you? You just can't pass another opportunity to beat your drum for the status quo around here. That's what's truly sad. 

[SPuDS]

2 minutes ago, J5V said:

I never said that, did I? Why so obtuse? I simply disagreed with the assertion that rookie coaches and Gms were the only way to go. But you already know that, don't you? You just can't pass another opportunity to beat your drum for the status quo around here. That's what's truly sad. 

No, whats sad is you are hell bent on converting people to your bizarre "WE NEED TEH EXPERIENCEZ'D COACH N GMZ!" theory when we can clearly see we don't after what has transpired in the last few years.  Also, just because you refuse to believe what... oh everyone has been saying about the bombers being a coach and GM graveyard causing us to have to look outside of the box for coaches (or pay an extravagant price... which we were not able to do back when we needed to find a quality coach/gm due to cost restraints and availability) doesn't make it truth.   from all indications, we DID try to land some "big name" coaches and GMs  when we were doing the hiring.. and were unable to do so, obviously.    It wasn't due to a lack of wanting or trying like you seem to want to force everyone here to believe..

 

You do realize we have ALL been here for years, watching all of these regime changes? Its not like we are oblivious to whats transpired in the last decade..

[Booch]

To be honest, a head coach and what he does/brings and how he impacts a game is very over rated in these forums and over valued. The players play and 99 percent of in game decisions and and calls are pretty much a given (with the odd rogue cowboy call) and a lot of times discussed among co-ordintors..team spotters and players who's participation has impact on the plays  considered...at least in my experiences..and generally if you are not an arrogant doucher who nobody likes and never listens to any ones  suggestion or input then you do just fine. Kind of baffles me tho what went on in that EDM  game with Mass tho...is he that much of a prick that no co-ordinator or assistant didn't wanna even question his call...or are they all just as dumb...guess we will never know

If a guy is just plain dumb and does dumb things consistently well then that when the GM has to step in and get rid of him...and players will stop playing for him. A team wins based on the players they have, and the schemes they run, 90 percent of the time created by the co-ordinators, and sometimes depending on the HC with some of their input...but they trust their staff so usually let them do their job.

I have played for HC's who basically put on the headset and let the game play out, offer encouragement, and  criticism where warranted and made final say, or asked co-ordinator what they think in certain game situations and then made the call...and were very successful.  I bet I could step behind the bench in CGY...WPG...EDM ...next summer as the HC and wheel off a winning season based on the personnel and support staff there  by just not being dumb...to manage a team during a game isn't rocket science

[Tracker]

2 hours ago, Booch said:

To be honest, a head coach and what he does/brings and how he impacts a game is very over rated in these forums and over valued. The players play and 99 percent of in game decisions and and calls are pretty much a given (with the odd rogue cowboy call) and a lot of times discussed among co-ordintors..team spotters and players who's participation has impact on the plays  considered...at least in my experiences..and generally if you are not an arrogant doucher who nobody likes and never listens to any ones  suggestion or input then you do just fine. Kind of baffles me tho what went on in that EDM  game with Mass tho...is he that much of a prick that no co-ordinator or assistant didn't wanna even question his call...or are they all just as dumb...guess we will never know

If a guy is just plain dumb and does dumb things consistently well then that when the GM has to step in and get rid of him...and players will stop playing for him. A team wins based on the players they have, and the schemes they run, 90 percent of the time created by the co-ordinators, and sometimes depending on the HC with some of their input...but they trust their staff so usually let them do their job.

I have played for HC's who basically put on the headset and let the game play out, offer encouragement, and  criticism where warranted and made final say, or asked co-ordinator what they think in certain game situations and then made the call...and were very successful.  I bet I could step behind the bench in CGY...WPG...EDM ...next summer as the HC and wheel off a winning season based on the personnel and support staff there  by just not being dumb...to manage a team during a game isn't rocket science

I think you underestimate the impact the head coach has when he chooses his subordinate staff. 

[Stickem]

So coaching positions  and a management job in B.C. / Mont./Ottawa are being discussed, action taken, and in B.C. 's case already settled ,while we appear to be dithering once again...Why is it that we seem to be slow off the mark in a lot of cases...Seems odd UNLESS the defensive coordinator's job is not up for discussion by the Bomber brain trust and there'll be no need for change....AND if that's the case we'll most likely see the same bull$hit we put up with this year....Sorry...that ain't good enough and until we hear or at least a suggestion that Hall's tenure here is done, I guess we remain status quo....Maybe it's a little early but you would think we would have heard some murmurs that a move was being made ...??? I along with others would like to know what our situation will be for 18'

[Tracker]

2 hours ago, Stickem said:

So coaching positions  and a management job in B.C. / Mont./Ottawa are being discussed, action taken, and in B.C. 's case already settled ,while we appear to be dithering once again...Why is it that we seem to be slow off the mark in a lot of cases...Seems odd UNLESS the defensive coordinator's job is not up for discussion by the Bomber brain trust and there'll be no need for change....AND if that's the case we'll most likely see the same bull$hit we put up with this year....Sorry...that ain't good enough and until we hear or at least a suggestion that Hall's tenure here is done, I guess we remain status quo....Maybe it's a little early but you would think we would have heard some murmurs that a move was being made ...??? I along with others would like to know what our situation will be for 18'

I would think that the Bombers owe it to their fans and Hall to come out with a definitive statement regarding Hall's status with the club soon. That way we would know when to heat up the bitumen and plucking fowls.

[JCon]

14 minutes ago, Stickem said:

So coaching positions  and a management job in B.C. / Mont./Ottawa are being discussed, action taken, and in B.C. 's case already settled ,while we appear to be dithering once again...Why is it that we seem to be slow off the mark in a lot of cases...Seems odd UNLESS the defensive coordinator's job is not up for discussion by the Bomber brain trust and there'll be no need for change....AND if that's the case we'll most likely see the same bull$hit we put up with this year....Sorry...that ain't good enough and until we hear or at least a suggestion that Hall's tenure here is done, I guess we remain status quo....Maybe it's a little early but you would think we would have heard some murmurs that a move was being made ...??? I along with others would like to know what our situation will be for 18'

Which DCs that are currently available do you think the Bombers should be targeting?

[bearpants]

6 hours ago, J5V said:

Yup, but hey, let's keep lining up the rookie Canadian coaches and GMs. Brilliant strategy.

OK, let's play a game... imagine the Bombers decide to fire Walters and O'Shea today... and they decide to look in US to fill the vacancies...

Can you name at least 2 candidates at GM and 2 at HC that meet your qualifications?

Here's a quick rundown of the qualifications you have laid out:
- has many years of head coaching / general managing (experience)
- winning history (a championship or two in their respective positions)
- extensive CFL knowledge (at the very least some CFL experience )
- currently unemployed or looking for new employment

if you can name 2 HC candidates and 2 GM candidates that meet this criteria... then I will concede that you are correct...  

I'm actually not trying to arguing anymore,...I'm legitimately curious if these people exist right now... you seem convinced there are many, so I'd like to know who they are...

[Stickem]

10 minutes ago, JCon said:

Which DCs that are currently available do you think the Bombers should be targeting?

I know a lot of fans aren't sold on Thorpe....and I don't want to bring someone in here just for the sake of change....he has to be better than what we have currently...Is Thorpe better?....seems to me he's more forward thinking than Ritchie's style of bend but don't break baloney, that broke more than bent...In fact I think we can do better than Hall...definitely... As a 'way out there move',wave some coin in front of Claybrook's nose with an added handle...try something.

[JCon]

I would say Orlondo Steinauer would be one, that, if you could lure him away from a DC role at a top 25 US football program, he would be my first choice.

But there's no way you could lure him away. And, even if you could, you're waiting until the season is done and the Bulldogs are bowl-bound this year.

[JCon]

1 minute ago, Stickem said:

I know a lot of fans aren't sold on Thorpe....and I don't want to bring someone in here just for the sake of change....he has to be better than what we have currently...Is Thorpe better?....seems to me he's more forward thinking than Ritchie's style of bend but don't break baloney, that broke more than bent...In fact I think we can do better than Hall...definitely... As a 'way out there move',wave some coin in front of Claybrook's nose with an added handle...try something.

Claybrooks: But why would he leave? We already have an OC - Assistant HC in Lapo. Can't give Claybrooks the same Assistant HC title or it truly becomes meaningless.

 

I'm not sure about Thorpe.

[bearpants]

Correct me if I'm wrong... but didn't Devon Claybrooks interview for the DC position here before taking the promotion in Calgary?

I seems recall there was an on-going joke about him being in town because 3 or 4 people mentioned it in the same thread... 

[Mark F]

I wonder if they have a journal of every defence called on each play in each game.

Against which they can see whether the calls were good, or bad, and whether the players were where they should be and able to make the play.

very large task if that's what they're doing.

 

Edited December 1, 2017 by Mark F

[Booch]

1 hour ago, tracker said:

I think you underestimate the impact the head coach has when he chooses his subordinate staff. 

No...I am saying that is the biggest thing...a HC is only as good as his Co-Ordinators...been around enough in different capacities to have a fairly good idea as to what a good HC requires/has for traits..tendencies etc to make him good...or bad...played for both kinds

Any HC worth anything is going to want to pick his guys...not inherit them.

I was just trying to convey that the HC doesn't have to know some unique and super rare strategy, or have some secret skill to make him win...

Edited December 1, 2017 by Booch

[Stickem]

2 hours ago, JCon said:

Claybrooks: But why would he leave? We already have an OC - Assistant HC in Lapo. Can't give Claybrooks the same Assistant HC title or it truly becomes meaningless.

 

I'm not sure about Thorpe.

Why would he leave????because he's tired of taking a good D to the Cup and failing...lol...How the hell should I know why coaches choose to move on...Money....better shot at a Cup or advancement....probably a few of the reasons...Things are going to change in Cal. ...maybe he wants to be part of the movement....Anyway....You didn't give a good reason why Hall should be retained which would be the other side of the argument....unless you clearly see that a change is not warranted

[JCon]

Just now, Stickem said:

Why would he leave????because he's tired of taking a good D to the Cup and failing...lol...How the hell should I know why coaches choose to move on...Money....better shot at a Cup or advancement....probably a few of the reasons...Things are going to change in Cal. ...maybe he wants to be part of the movement....Anyway....You didn't give a good reason why Hall should be retained which would be the other side of the argument....unless you clearly see that a change is not warranted

I don't think Hall should be retained but the over-the-top ranting and raving about how the Bombers are missing out and need to move on is ridiculous.

There is no pressure, at this time, to dump Hall until you have someone else lined up. There's no one available right now that is better than Hall. End of story.

If that changes, then they should make a move. They're paying him either way.

[DR. CFL]

When is the season ticket renewal deadline?  Maybe they are delaying the announcement that Hall is being retained until after people have committed to renew for 2018. 

[Stickem]

11 minutes ago, JCon said:

 

There is no pressure, at this time, to dump Hall until you have someone else lined up. There's no one available right now that is better than Hall. 

Oh????...I think there very much is dissatisfaction with Halls results the past 2 years...Your second line is truly benign....How do you know there's nobody better than Hall at this time...we haven't even made an attempt tp look, as far as I know....which brings me to once again ask... which direction are we headed in this regard.

[M.O.A.B.]

Im not really sure who’s available out there. We cant poach a DC and hire him as DC. Lateral move is not allowed. 

The only FAs are Thorpe and Stubler.

Unless of course, Steinauer becomes available all of a sudden... or if Burke plans on going back to coaching again.

Some upcomers, maybe?  Barron Miles? Corey Mace? how bout Kevin Eiben? or Tony Missick?

Slim pickings for sure.

Maybe O’Shea assume DC role? and let someone takeover ST fulltime.

Edited December 1, 2017 by M.O.A.B.

[blue_gold_84]

Just because nothing has been reported yet doesn't mean the organization is doing nothing. Good gravy... The season just ended five days ago. Rein in the chicken little bullshit.

[JCon]

38 minutes ago, Stickem said:

Oh????...I think there very much is dissatisfaction with Halls results the past 2 years...Your second line is truly benign....How do you know there's nobody better than Hall at this time...we haven't even made an attempt tp look, as far as I know....which brings me to once again ask... which direction are we headed in this regard.

I asked you  for who was available and you came up with a DC who's not available and one that may not even be better than what we have.

There's no pressure on December 1st to commit to a new DC, when we have one under contract.

And, we have no idea what Walters is doing or what inquiries he's making.

Edited December 1, 2017 by JCon

[WBBFanWest]

Obviously, if we're going to replace Hall, we have to hire Doug Brown as our new DC because:

1) He's a former Bomber.

2) an All-Star which means that he just "knows" everything a good coach would need to know.

3) And most importantly, we know his name.

[SPuDS]

1 hour ago, JCon said:

I don't think Hall should be retained but the over-the-top ranting and raving about how the Bombers are missing out and need to move on is ridiculous.

There is no pressure, at this time, to dump Hall until you have someone else lined up. There's no one available right now that is better than Hall. End of story.

If that changes, then they should make a move. They're paying him either way.

Not to mention the exit interviews, getting Hall's take on how the players played within the system, the players take on the DC and schemes used..

 

people forget that this is a business. things take time.  teams who were not in the playoffs (BC and Montreal) are going to get a head start because they were done 3 weeks ago.   this isn't madden, you can't just plug in players or coaches by making a few clicks or button presses, lol.

[SPuDS]

42 minutes ago, JCon said:

I asked you  for who was available and you came up with a DC who's not available and one that may not even be better than what we have.

There's no pressure on December 1st to commit to a new DC, when we have one under contract.

And, we have no idea what Walters is doing or what inquiries he's making.

so much this.   what's the rush?  People haven't even cleaned out their offices yet I'd surmise.  Besides the fact that there is still work to be done.   No need to run around like our hair's on fire because the team isn't giving us the step by step process of their off-season... and frankly, its kind of asinine to think we are owed that by the team.

[Stickem]

So it's 'sounds' like we could be/are satisfied with the current dc....Not the feeling I get from a lot of my friends and other fans....BUT we'll wait and see....have no other choice really until we hear from Walters or O'Shea...I believe a one and done team in the playoffs won't be leaving us complacent and I expect change...Will that occur at the defensive coordinator's position.....that is the million dollar question