When do we fire Richie Hall?

[SPuDS]

Further to the "our DB's can't cover" BS...

 

this is the CFL.. NO DB is going to be able to cover anyone man to man for the amount of time that QB's have (or we gave them that is) to make a play.  that much field, that much motion and the inability of our refs to see rubs and picks makes it even harder.   Our DBs have some of the better cover skills imo and they showcased it by getting all those picks and turnovers but when you have the whole secondary not only trying to play man BUT paranoid about having to cover up for their gaffes then it makes it even harder still.  The rookies we employed caused our defense grief all year.  mainly because we couldn't settle on which rookie to play in those 2 spots (3 once leggett was hurt)

[Floyd]

I want Richie Hall gone but without a legit MLB, we'll never be able to judge his system properly...  or judge Loffler's true abilities at safety... etc etc

The fact can't be ignored that Sam Hurl is and always has been a Richie Hall project - its fair to say the Hall was part of the push to draft him in Sask and then brought him here

Both need to be replaced asap.  The experiment failed.

[SPuDS]

13 minutes ago, Floyd said:

I want Richie Hall gone but without a legit MLB, we'll never be able to judge his system properly...  or judge Loffler's true abilities at safety... etc etc

The fact can't be ignored that Sam Hurl is and always has been a Richie Hall project - its fair to say the Hall was part of the push to draft him in Sask and then brought him here

Both need to be replaced asap.  The experiment failed.

even though its hypothetical, hard to not see it as accurate.  He has kind of followed Hall around.. and he hasn't really been effective beyond sorta kinda occupying o-linemen to allow others to try and make plays.. operative word, try.  I know O'shea loves his work ethic and says he plays the role properly... He too was one of the MLB's that was employed in a similar defense..  and that too probably makes it all that much more harder to believe a change is coming.

[Floyd]

55 minutes ago, SPuDS said:

even though its hypothetical, hard to not see it as accurate.  He has kind of followed Hall around.. and he hasn't really been effective beyond sorta kinda occupying o-linemen to allow others to try and make plays.. operative word, try.  I know O'shea loves his work ethic and says he plays the role properly... He too was one of the MLB's that was employed in a similar defense..  and that too probably makes it all that much more harder to believe a change is coming.

You mean Oshea?  No DC ever had to compensate for Osh's lack of speed or thump...

[SPuDS]

2 minutes ago, Floyd said:

You mean Oshea?  No DC ever had to compensate for Osh's lack of speed or thump...

well he definitely didn't have the same speed or thump as most import LBs though.  He was no Barrin Simpson or Solly.. he was definitely 4-5 notches better then Hurl though, no doubt

[Noeller]

3 minutes ago, SPuDS said:

well he definitely didn't have the same speed or thump as most import LBs though.  He was no Barrin Simpson or Solly.. he was definitely 4-5 notches better then Hurl though, no doubt

I'm going to say this as respectfully as possible, but this entire statement is you talking loudly through your own ass........I don't think you can qualify this statement in any way, shape, or form....with regards to MOS, Barrin, Sol El, or Hurl.......

[Rich]

Reminder of O'Shea's HOF career.

http://www.cfhof.ca/members/mike-oshea/

Quote

Mike O’Shea began his 16 year career as a linebacker in the Canadian Football League with the Hamilton Tiger-Cats in 1993 after initially being chosen by Edmonton in the 1993 Canadian Football Draft. O’Shea played for the Tiger-Cats for three seasons (1993-1995) before joining the Toronto Argonauts where he played from 1996 to 1999. He spent the 2000 season with Hamilton before returning to Toronto to play the final eight seasons of his CFL tenure – a total of 271 career regular season games. Through 2016, his 271 games is more than any other linebacker in CFL history and #18 among all players.

During his 16 CFL seasons, O’Shea saw action in 16 playoff games as well as making three appearances in the Grey Cup where played in and won all three times (1996, 1997 and 2004). O’Shea started off with a CFL Award in his very first season earning CFL Most Outstanding Rookie honours for Hamilton in 1993, and went on to earn recognition as a five-time Division All-Star. He was the North All-Star in 1995, and was Eastern All-Star on 4 different occasions (1994, 1997, 1999, and 2000), in 1999 he also became a CFL All-Star for the first time.

In 1999 O’Shea received an impressive collection of team and league nominations and awards. He was selected that year as Toronto’s Most Outstanding Player overall as well as their Top Defensive Player and Most Outstanding Canadian Player. He was a team nominee for Hamilton for Canadian Player 3 times (1993, 1994 and 1995) and for Toronto 3 times (1997, 1999 and 2003), going on to win the East Division Award and league finalist as top Canadian in 1999.

During his 271-game CFL career, O’Shea compiled an impressive list of statistics the most notable are his 1,151 defensive tackles – #2 all-time. Through 2016 he still ranked #7 all-time with 169 Special Team Tackles. O’Shea is second on the All-Time Toronto Argonaut Most Games Played list with a total of 205 games played. From 1997 to 2008, O’Shea missed only one game playing a full 18-game season 11 times in that 12-year span. Overall, O’Shea made 1,320 tackles – an average of almost five defensive stops per game. To those numbers, O’Shea added 22 career interceptions, 11 fumble recoveries and 30 QB Sacks.

 

[SPuDS]

59 minutes ago, Noeller said:

I'm going to say this as respectfully as possible, but this entire statement is you talking loudly through your own ass........I don't think you can qualify this statement in any way, shape, or form....with regards to MOS, Barrin, Sol El, or Hurl.......

so watching all these guys play and seeing their abilities and deficiencies doesn't quantify me to have an opinion??

 

cool story bro, tell it again.

[Noeller]

7 minutes ago, SPuDS said:

so watching all these guys play and seeing their abilities and deficiencies doesn't quantify me to have an opinion??

 

cool story bro, tell it again.

Not a worthy one, no....

[SPuDS]

1 minute ago, Noeller said:

Not a worthy one, no....

wow.  thats a pretty dickish comment there.  I'd never imply that your opinion isn't as valid as someone else's.       

 

what, pray tell, inside your oh so amazing CFL football knowledge base otherwise known as your brain, what quantifies you as being able to tell me that my opinion isn't valid?  is it your playing experience? Maybe your time spent with players and coaches on the sidelines then?  Sports journalist or statistician?   whats that?? Your basing your own opinions on the exact same things as I am,  eyeball test and listening to other people's views??  huh.. you don't say.

 

 

take your opinion of my thoughts and shove em up your ass.. you are just as qualified to make these kind of opinions and I don't feel like you have any position to call my opinion down.

[rebusrankin]

Put me in the new DC and new MLB camp.

[pigseye]

3 hours ago, SPuDS said:

no, you don't know what it is you are talking about actually.   Heath, Randle and Leggett are some of the best cover DBs in the league..  open your eyes and stop staring at some stupid stat sheet.  ever heard "stats are for losers?"

 

lol, after what you said to noeller, pot meet kettle.

[BBRT]

2 minutes ago, rebusrankin said:

Put me in the new DC and new MLB camp.

Me too - been in that camp solidly for some time - even pitched my tent!

[MOBomberFan]

Just now, BBRT said:

Me too - been in that camp solidly for some time - even pitched my tent!

Phrasing

[pigseye]

We've needed a MLB since Lobo, hard to believe.....

[rebusrankin]

2 minutes ago, BBRT said:

Me too - been in that camp solidly for some time - even pitched my tent!

Dang man, TMI. I mean I'd excited about such a move but not THAT excited.

[SPuDS]

5 minutes ago, pigseye said:

lol, after what you said to noeller, pot meet kettle.

Sure, if you want to compare me defending our all-star defensive backs and their abilities to cover man to man to me comparing a canadian MLB (who was very good in his own right) to his more talented and more capable american counterparts then you go right ahead and call me a pot or kettle.  completely different scenarios but hey, whatever helps you feel better about yourself.

[Noeller]

The only point I've ever tried to make, is that nobody around here is qualified to qualify/quantify the abilities of any of the players mentioned by Spuds earlier (...well, maybe Booch...) To say "this guy is better than that guy by a lot..." is ridiculous for anyone on this site, because you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about. I certainly don't, and never attempt to say that I do.

[pigseye]

46 minutes ago, SPuDS said:

Sure, if you want to compare me defending our all-star defensive backs and their abilities to cover man to man to me comparing a canadian MLB (who was very good in his own right) to his more talented and more capable american counterparts then you go right ahead and call me a pot or kettle.  completely different scenarios but hey, whatever helps you feel better about yourself.

You probably only saw O'Shea in the twilight of his career because if you had seen him in his prime, you wouldn't be saying what you said. He was every bit as good or better than his american peers. 

At least my argument has the stats to back it up, yours oth is just pulling stuff out of your ass.  

 

[SPuDS]

28 minutes ago, Noeller said:

The only point I've ever tried to make, is that nobody around here is qualified to qualify/quantify the abilities of any of the players mentioned by Spuds earlier (...well, maybe Booch...) To say "this guy is better than that guy by a lot..." is ridiculous for anyone on this site, because you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about. I certainly don't, and never attempt to say that I do.

My comment about him being 4-5 notches below his american counterparts was the one that really did it huh?   There is only 3 Canadian MLBs who I can recall were worth starting in lieu of an American.. Singleton, Muamba and O'shea.   I don't think O'shea was as good as Singleton.  I think hes on par with Muamba.  I would rather start a Greg Battle, Alondra Johnson, Adam Bighill, Rennie Curran, John Grace or one of the other dozens of elite level MLBS that have come thru the CFL in the last 3-4 decades over a Muamba or *gasp! dare I say it* O'shea..

 

 

[Noeller]

6 minutes ago, SPuDS said:

My comment about him being 4-5 notches below his american counterparts was the one that really did it huh?   There is only 3 Canadian MLBs who I can recall were worth starting in lieu of an American.. Singleton, Muamba and O'shea.   I don't think O'shea was as good as Singleton.  I think hes on par with Muamba.  I would rather start a Greg Battle, Alondra Johnson, Adam Bighill, Rennie Curran, John Grace or one of the other dozens of elite level MLBS that have come thru the CFL in the last 3-4 decades over a Muamba or *gasp! dare I say it* O'shea..

 

 

trying to actually qualify it with a number.....or some random rating scale...........that's what did it. It's random and it's absurd...

[SPuDS]

Just now, Noeller said:

trying to actually qualify it with a number.....or some random rating scale...........that's what did it. It's random and it's absurd...

ok fine, take my wacky-tacky weird notch equation out of it... you still think O'shea would stack up against a Solominian or Battle?  I love Canadian starters as much as anyone else.. O'shea was solid but..   matched up against serious American talent?

[Noeller]

3 minutes ago, SPuDS said:

ok fine, take my wacky-tacky weird notch equation out of it... you still think O'shea would stack up against a Solominian or Battle?  I love Canadian starters as much as anyone else.. O'shea was solid but..   matched up against serious American talent?

I don't know because I'm not qualified to judge football linebackers.....I'm just a fan who never played the game at the pro level. 

[SPuDS]

Just now, Noeller said:

I don't know because I'm not qualified to judge football linebackers.....I'm just a fan who never played the game at the pro level. 

*bangs head on desk*

you honesty cannot tell the difference between closing speeds, reaction times, coverage skills, side to side movement, reading plays or positional play from watching football for.. what I'd assume is close to 25-30 years?   I'm not asking you to definitively say yes or no.. this isn't gun to your head asking you to make a choice and damn the torpedoes.. opinion, views, "I feel.." 

 

you don't usually have any issue saying what you feel lol.   why now.     but ok, whatever.. consider it dropped.

[Mr Dee]

It’s different times and different eras, but I’ll tell you one thing, if you list the linebackers who have played this game over the years, I would not hesitate for a minute, to include Mike O’Shea as a potential starting linebacker on a team that I was involved with.

He was that good..