When do we fire Richie Hall?

[SPuDS]

13 minutes ago, Mr Dee said:

It’s different times and different eras, but I’ll tell you one thing, if you list the linebackers who have played this game over the years, I would not hesitate for a minute, to include Mike O’Shea as a potential starting linebacker on a team that I was involved with.

He was that good..

Dont get me wrong.. I agree, he is a hell of a MLB.  he was gritty, smart and played with a large chip on his shoulder.   I just don't believe he is on par with the best of the best if you take out the nationality.  

 

would I have him starting for me to allow for an american in another spot?  absolutely.   Would I have him starting for me if i didn't need the ratio busting? Sure, unless someone better was available.  Would someone better be available?  Depends on your scouting and GM I suppose but if it was like for like, no other factors to the equation, I'd be going with an American MLB every day.

[James]

On 14/12/2017 at 5:17 PM, SPuDS said:

*bangs head on desk*

you honesty cannot tell the difference between closing speeds, reaction times, coverage skills, side to side movement, reading plays or positional play from watching football for.. what I'd assume is close to 25-30 years?   I'm not asking you to definitively say yes or no.. this isn't gun to your head asking you to make a choice and damn the torpedoes.. opinion, views, "I feel.." 

 

you don't usually have any issue saying what you feel lol.   why now.     but ok, whatever.. consider it dropped.

This is a football forum where people come and share their opinions and judge opinions. I think noeller is pretty out to lunch on this. Obviously we arent professionals. But if we cant say what we think whats the point of this place?

Edited December 24, 2017 by James

[SPuDS]

Just now, James said:

This is a football forum where people come and share theyre opinions and judge opinions. I think noeller is pretty out to lunch on this. Obviously we arent professionals. But if we cant say what we think whats the point of this place?

this is kind of what I was eluding to, (not the out to lunch part lol) just that my opinion is just as valid as his or yours and nobody has the right to say "you're talking out of your ass" because my opinion differs from theirs. You don't agree, cool.. say so. 

[Tracker]

8 hours ago, Atomic said:

Actually Dr. CFL is Ross Hodgkinson

Sooooo......... you're saying that's not Ross's picture?

[SpeedFlex27]

On ‎12‎/‎13‎/‎2017 at 9:33 AM, Floyd said:

Mark Nelson with Todd Howard (DL), Ike Charlton (LBs), try to poach Barron Miles from Edmonton 

Would still absolutely try to get Doug Brown on staff as DL Coach or Strength/Conditioning

pry Mark Nelson out of Ottawa.

[johnzo]

O'Shea was a complete beast, definitely on the list of great MLBs I've watched in my time.

I remember one game during his early years in Hamilton that he absolutely took over.  Run between the tackles?  O'Shea was there. Pass to the flat? O'Shea was there. QB getting too comfortable?  O'Shea obliterated him on a blitz.  Wide receiver sweep?  O'Shea ran it down. Draw play? O'Shea wasn't fooled.  Screen pass? Dropped the receiver for a loss.

He had something like 20 tackles that day.  One of the most dominating performances I've ever seen.  I wore #59 because of that guy and he was my favorite non-Bomber for years.

Edited December 15, 2017 by johnzo

[17to85]

Downplaying O'Shea, oh my goodness the things some people say. Dude was a legit MLB. It is unfair to hold him to the standards of today, the position has changed a lot since then, but he was as good as you wanted from a MLB back in the day. 

[pigseye]

Quote

The Edmonton Eskimos picked O'Shea in the 1st round (4th overall) in the 1993 CFL Canadian College Draft. However, he was soon after traded to Hamilton by Edmonton along with QB DeChane Cameron, linebacker DeWayne Odom and a negotiation list player in exchange for QB Damon Allen on February 16, 1993.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_O'Shea_(Canadian_football)

Wow, I completely forgot about that trade, Hamilton had Damon Allen and let him go....

[Noeller]

1 hour ago, pigseye said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_O'Shea_(Canadian_football)

Wow, I completely forgot about that trade, Hamilton had Damon Allen and let him go....

And Anthony Calvillo... 

[blue_gold_84]

20 hours ago, pigseye said:

We've needed a MLB since Lobo, hard to believe.....

Nah, since Muamba.

[WBBFanWest]

On 12/14/2017 at 8:47 AM, Booch said:

That's kind of what I was saying all along too...we sacrificed traditional scheme and philosophy to compensate for inadequate personnel elsewhere...mainly linebacker and  the other halfback spot.

Our safety was used to help out in the box more so than in the secondary and was rarely there to give over top help or to help in coverage...a lot of times he recognized it and tried to get there, but 9 times out of 10 could't and no fault of his but would make it seem like a coverage bust, or him missing an assignment..which it wasn't

Same with the DB's at times...the veterans would at times cheat or overcompensate to "help" but in football it takes 12 guys doing a specific thing to be successful and when one breaks down to help another spot..well then you get exploited. I can bet teams schemed specifically against us to bait certain guys in knowing the veteran will recognize and over compensate and then attacked his vacated spot..some games I was able to call it before it even happened as the play developed. The notion that the DB's couldn't play man is garbage as well. 

Also our apparent use of the middle linebacker position was basically a wasted guy on the field with no purpose and teams schemed it. Was a total scheme issue the past year due to personnel and it compounded all over the defense.  What ails this defense would be fixed with the traditional use of the MLB as has been seen since the constant use of the 5 reliever set offence, with a player who can play sideline to sideline...have the loose hips to turn and run with a receiver and cover as well as be stout enough to step up and take on the run. Those guys are a dime a dozen down south and we have to lose the mentality that we want to run that position as a Canadian spot...because those guys are more like $10 a dozen  and don't come around that often

Booch, a quick question for you.  I'm not in a position to dispute anything you're saying here, but I can't help but wonder if it is as straight forward as you've laid out, why in the world wold there be any doubt or delay in moving on from Hall.  O'Shea has already pulled the trigger three times on coordinators, so the "he's too stubborn" rule does not apply and as a former MLB he'd certainly be able to see what you've laid out.  So what's missing?

[Mark H.]

On 2017-12-14 at 5:44 PM, SPuDS said:

Dont get me wrong.. I agree, he is a hell of a MLB.  he was gritty, smart and played with a large chip on his shoulder.   I just don't believe he is on par with the best of the best if you take out the nationality.  

 

would I have him starting for me to allow for an american in another spot?  absolutely.   Would I have him starting for me if i didn't need the ratio busting? Sure, unless someone better was available.  Would someone better be available?  Depends on your scouting and GM I suppose but if it was like for like, no other factors to the equation, I'd be going with an American MLB every day.

You could argue that about any position. What if you had 5 American OL who are the calibre  Travis Bond & Stanley Bryant? 

[Noeller]

Fair statement or no:

MOS was to MACK Back as DB97 was to NT? 

[Goalie]

5 hours ago, Noeller said:

Fair statement or no:

MOS was to MACK Back as DB97 was to NT? 

Interesting comparison. 

Both Canadians. Both very good but perhaps over looked at times. 

Not sure if fair or not... Osh was good but he wasnt played in the NFL good. 

 

[Noeller]

Fwiw, I'm a believer (in my useless opinion) that DB97 is the best NT in CFL history, passport be damned... 

[Goalie]

Just now, Noeller said:

Fwiw, I'm a believer (in my useless opinion) that DB97 is the best NT in CFL history, passport be damned... 

Yeah. DB was definitely one of if not THE best. 

Osh? One of? Probably.. In the DB97 category? No. 

[Doublezero]

1 hour ago, Noeller said:

Fwiw, I'm a believer (in my useless opinion) that DB97 is the best NT in CFL history, passport be damned... 

Brown was a stopper, absolutely. But since you say passport be damned, John Helton was the best defensive tackle that ever suited up for Winnipeg (in my useless opinion).

[wbbfan]

1 hour ago, Goalie said:

Yeah. DB was definitely one of if not THE best. 

Osh? One of? Probably.. In the DB97 category? No. 

Pretty much. Better (imp) MLBers came and went in the league. No better DT did though. Comparing different eras is un fair and borderline impossible to do justice. 

Mos was a different type of MLBer in a very different era. His greatest strengths were toughness (one of the toughest football players ive ever seen) preparation, work ethic, and football IQ. In his prime he wasnt the fastest, strongest or biggest MLBer. But he was among the best. And among the very best NIs in his era. One of the best all round football players. You could have gotten a better athlete who was better at rushing the passer, and covered more ground. But they wouldnt be a better player. mos wasnt some one you made the game easier for. He made the game easier for his teammates.

KD williams in particular comes to mind. His athletic ability and nose for the ball was exceptional. The amount of tackles for a loss he made was insane. He was constantly getting in the  back field, swatting down passes  and making big plays. Heck of a teams guy too. More physically talented. But not the same type of player as mos.  1997-2008  mos missed 1 game. 13 seasons of playing 18 games and 1 of 17. 

 

This thread is badily suffering from a case of off-season-itus. 

 

[WBBFanWest]

http://3downnation.com/2017/12/26/early-re-signings-point-defensive-uncertainty-winnipeg/

[Piggy 1]

Tried embedding Doug Browns tweet, unsuccessfully.

 

Edited December 26, 2017 by Piggy 1

[Stickem]

Let's see....40.68% of forum fans believe Hall should have been eased out of the door by now????hmmmmm....Guess O'Shea doesn't see it the way we do...What is he seeing in Hall and Hurl that we don't?...Is he that blinded by loyalty that he can't make a decision regarding these guys...Maybe someone else will have to...Hello Wade....None of our defensive fa's  re-signed...Don't like the looks of that.

[WBBFanWest]

3 minutes ago, Stickem said:

Let's see....40.68% of forum fans believe Hall should have been eased out of the door by now????hmmmmm....Guess O'Shea doesn't see it the way we do...What is he seeing in Hall and Hurl that we don't?...Is he that blinded by loyalty that he can't make a decision regarding these guys...Maybe someone else will have to...Hello Wade....None of our defensive fa's  re-signed...Don't like the looks of that.

If the GM or president has to step in and make decisions for the HC, then its not just Hall that needs to go.  If O'Shea has convinced the brass that he thinks Hall can turn it around, then so be it.  All he's risking is his employment

[Noeller]

I for one can't believe MOS isn't listening to forum fans.... 

[rebusrankin]

I have a bad feeling that Hall and Hurl will be back which could lead to worse results than The Last Jedi.

[Goalie]

35 minutes ago, rebusrankin said:

I have a bad feeling that Hall and Hurl will be back which could lead to worse results than The Last Jedi.

So mixed results but mostly positive lol. Cuz Last Jedi has been mostly positive feedback.. Vocal minority