When do we fire Richie Hall?

[Noeller]

I'm also really curious about how important Hall is in terms of recruiting. I've seen multiple quotes online about how popular Hall is among players, and I'm wondering if just having him around will help in retaining our own quality FAs and attract some outside ones...

[Tracker]

6 hours ago, DR. CFL said:

Can I get an amen brothers and sisters......if that is the GMs, scouting, player personnel or whomever’s responsibility JUST DO IT enough is enough. Thanks Mike for that.

We do not know if O'Shea or any of the assistant coaches are saying that the people they have are good enough therefore there is no need to bring in anyone to push them. Scouts won't bring in anyone if they are being told to stand pat.

[Mark F]

Light commenting aujourd'hui, possibly  due to MBB posters  being  in hangover recovery mode,  caused by an evening  of hard drinking  to dull the pain of  yesterday's news.

Edited January 6, 2018 by Mark F
add laughing emoticon

[blueingreenland]

When do we fire Ritchie Hall?

Not this year (unless we start 0-8). 

A lot of guys on here on poo-pooing the Collaros signing but me thinks the Bombers better step it up on defense this year as Saskatchewan, Calgary, and Edmonton could potentially all be vying for top spot in the west. 

Bottom line-we need to get better as the west is going to get even tougher.

[Tracker]

2 hours ago, blueingreenland said:

When do we fire Ritchie Hall?  Not this year (unless we start 0-8). 

A lot of guys on here on poo-pooing the Collaros signing but me thinks the Bombers better step it up on defense this year as Saskatchewan, Calgary, and Edmonton could potentially all be vying for top spot in the west. Bottom line-we need to get better as the west is going to get even tougher.

Agreed. I cannot see how the Bomber defence is going to get any better with Hall overseeing it. O'Shea said he was going to be more involved with the defence, but if it seems to me that if I had an employee in a critical position who, after three years in the job, still had to be supervised more closely, I would be asking myself why I was keeping him around. Barring any  big changes to come, I suspect that we will be having another "ok" year ending with the  locker room being cleared early. O'Shea has obviously made a decision to live or die with Hall, and even if Hall is fired halfway through the season, O'Shea will be gone at the end of  the season.

[Mark F]

49 minutes ago, tracker said:

O'Shea said he was going to be more involved with the defence

Did O'Shea say  something like "he wasn't ready" for more responsiblity for Defence, cause he had more to learn?

(Just saying it from memory of a quote here from someone quoting Darren Bauming, so this could be way off target and wrong).

If that's what he said, egads.

If that was the case, how was/is he qualified to be head coach?

I must have this wrong.

Edited January 6, 2018 by Mark F

[SpeedFlex27]

My biggest issue with all of this is throwing the 2 assistants under the bus & basically blaming them for the issues on defense. Hall was the architect of the Bomber defense. The assistants teach Hall's philosophy to their players. Hall designs the schemes & yet... even though he has failed he still gets to keep his job but it's the assistants fault. This decision makes no sense at all..

I have a huge concern about this off season so far. We have see some teams being very aggressive looking to improve for next year. Ottawa relieves Mark Nelson of his DC duties replacing him with Noel Thorpe. The Als cleaning house of their coaching staff which was expected. The Lions firing Khari Jones & other offensive assistant coaches. Meanwhile it took O'Shea 2 months to make his decision on Hall. 

[WBBFanWest]

5 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

My biggest issue with all of this is throwing the 2 assistants under the bus & basically blaming them for the issues on defense. Hall was the architect of the Bomber defense. The assistants teach Hall's philosophy to their players. Hall designs the schemes & yet... even though he has failed he still gets to keep his job but it's the assistants fault. This decision makes no sense at all..

I have a huge concern about this off season so far. We have see some teams being very aggressive looking to improve for next year. Ottawa relieves Mark Nelson of his DC duties replacing him with Noel Thorpe. The Als cleaning house of their coaching staff which was expected. The Lions firing Khari Jones & other offensive assistant coaches. Meanwhile it took O'Shea 2 months to make his decision on Hall. 

Or, he made his decision on Hall a long time ago, but failed to keep us in the loop.  He's got a lot of nerve...  If I were you, I'd write him a strongly worded letter.  That'll show him.

[DR. CFL]

Sometimes you just can’t win.......fire coaches and you are accused of instability and lacking patience.......keep people and you are accused of being too loyal and afraid to change. Time will tell.

[17to85]

35 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

My biggest issue with all of this is throwing the 2 assistants under the bus & basically blaming them for the issues on defense

and when did that happen? Just because they didn't bring a couple assistants back does not mean they are blaming them for the D problems. But hey, you're welcome to keep jumping to the conclusions to justify your hate of Ritchie Hall. 

[Noeller]

Another thought I had.... A scenario: Wade says "He's got one year left, I don't want to pay two coaches... Let's leave him to finish his contract but I want you (Mike) to oversee everything..." 

I'm not saying that happened or, if it did, that it's the right thing to do.... But the point is, there's a dozen things that could be going on behind the  scenes. It's ridiculous to go claiming you know exactly what happened and why. 

Edited January 6, 2018 by Noeller

[SpeedFlex27]

58 minutes ago, WBBFanWest said:

Or, he made his decision on Hall a long time ago, but failed to keep us in the loop.  He's got a lot of nerve...  If I were you, I'd write him a strongly worded letter.  That'll show him.

You're clueless. You seem to think I'm the only one here disappointed that O'Shea is keeping Hall. Read the comments here & elsewhere as I'm not the only one unhappy. Or as per usual you always seem to point out something I said that you don't like yet ignore others . We'll see how good this defense is next year under Hall. If it isn't you'll be bitching like everyone else.

Edited January 6, 2018 by SpeedFlex27

[SpeedFlex27]

13 minutes ago, Noeller said:

Another thought I had.... A scenario: Wade says "He's got one year left, I don't want to pay two coaches... Let's leave him to finish his contract but I want you (Mike) to oversee everything..." 

I'm not saying that happened or, if it did, that it's the right thing to do.... But the point is, there's a dozen things that could be going on behind the  scenes. It's ridiculous to go claiming you know exactly what happened and why. 

I'd say that may be pretty accurate. 

[Booch]

I'm fine with this actually..and agree a lot of the yards that piled up was due to lack of execution. 

Watching a lot of the games over and and noticed significant number of plays where if Hurl had more athletism and for lack of better term talent that many a play would have been stuffed for no gain or minimal and a lot of time it was on 2nd down and would have got us ball back and limited clock eating drives.

Same with Thomas..sure he made some nice plays but too many times he got washed away or nullified..especially when he was getting more reps in a game and that was a lack of execution issue due to ratio/depth...especially after Westerman got hurt. 

Fogg and Walker too..inexperience caused a lot of execution issues that if they did things right..wwould have been a positive defensive play.

As for scape goats..noone is really saying the coaches not being brought back are being used as that.. but perhaps Missick wasn't getting things across good enough to have our guys positioned better or coached up better...we don't know the inner workings of things and can only speculate...same with Howard but again who knows.

I do know though that once we altered ratio and went basically with 4 imports on d-line and rotated the ends inside and out..dropping into flats etc and bringing Knox off the edge as a rusher (which he did very well and was very disruptive..watch film and see) we had arguably one of the best fronts for the last 4-5 games of season...and that can be attributed to Hall I can guarantee that..so he can change his philosophy and mindset...and given a true MLB and continued work upfront.. and some Oshea input/tweaks I see good things happening.. .and if they stink the joint well..Hall can be scapegoated then.

The real wild card is Younger...I LOVE this signing.. he is a great coach and you will see it reflected in our DB play this year.

People I have talked to say he is a great mind and has a real progressive vision and coaching philosophy...he is a real good candidate to become the next Orlondo Stienhauer..just u watch

[SpeedFlex27]

32 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

and when did that happen? Just because they didn't bring a couple assistants back does not mean they are blaming them for the D problems. But hey, you're welcome to keep jumping to the conclusions to justify your hate of Ritchie Hall. 

So, you keep the architect & throw away the underlings because after all, it's their fault. If that isn't blatant, well?

[WBBFanWest]

5 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

You're clueless. You seem to think I'm the only one here disappointed that O'Shea is keeping Hall. Read the comments here & elsewhere as I'm not the only one unhappy. Or as per usual you always seem to point out something I said that you don't like yet ignore others . We'll see how good this defense is next year under Hall. If it isn't you'll be bitching like everyone else.

Where did I say that I was happy with it?  I'm just not into temper tantrums and stomping my feet.

[SpeedFlex27]

10 minutes ago, WBBFanWest said:

Where did I say that I was happy with it?  I'm just not into temper tantrums and stomping my feet.

Temper tantrum? I don't recall the last time I ever ranted here.  Am I disappointed? Yes. However, I've tried to stay away from that. Not saying I'm perfect but I really don't have time for that anymore. 

Edited January 6, 2018 by SpeedFlex27

[Tracker]

It is simplistic to dismiss criticism of Hall as a personal attack on him and just hatred. I'm pretty sure that any of us here would love to have a coffee or beer with him but that does not explain or excuse his track record- not just here but elsewhere. Our defence was bad last season despite some darned good talent and I suggest to you that the Argos had lesser talent but still won the Cup.  Hall has been given time and has been found wanting, and that has nothing to do with his personality or if he is kind to small children and pets.

[17to85]

42 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

So, you keep the architect & throw away the underlings because after all, it's their fault. If that isn't blatant, well?

and where have they said it was the assistants fault? You're the one making that claim and no offense, but you have no clue the reason why there are changes with a couple assistants. Hell I'd bet that one of them is purely to get Younger on board. 

[Goalie]

33 minutes ago, tracker said:

It is simplistic to dismiss criticism of Hall as a personal attack on him and just hatred. I'm pretty sure that any of us here would love to have a coffee or beer with him but that does not explain or excuse his track record- not just here but elsewhere. Our defence was bad last season despite some darned good talent and I suggest to you that the Argos had lesser talent but still won the Cup.  Hall has been given time and has been found wanting, and that has nothing to do with his personality or if he is kind to small children and pets.

Yeah. But a few of you on here would ***** regardless so it makes your current bitching kind of... Oh i dunno... Not surprising. Lets be honest Tracker... You are a rider fan 

[SpeedFlex27]

2 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

and where have they said it was the assistants fault? You're the one making that claim and no offense, but you have no clue the reason why there are changes with a couple assistants. Hell I'd bet that one of them is purely to get Younger on board. 

We'll see what happens next year. Bottom line our defense has to play much better for the Bombers to get to & win the Grey Cup. 

[Goalie]

4 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

We'll see what happens next year. Bottom line our defense has to play much better for the Bombers to get to & win the Grey Cup. 

I wanted Hall gone also.. Was convinced it would happen but to put it all on Hall is crazy.... At some point.. You gotta look at the players... Like our loss to Edmonton... It was breakdowns in coverage... Dbs got beat... Is that on Hall or is it on the players? Maybe some of our players on D (more than just Hurl) werent good enough? 

[Goalie]

Oh.. The BC comparison... BC was expected to be one of the best teams in the league.. They were one of the worst... Comparing the 2nd best team in the league to 1 of the worst? Thats an odd comparison. What has Calgary done? Nothing. Ednonton? Besides trading their backup and losing Zylstra to the Vikings? Nothing. The BC comparison is mind boggling... I mean... Khari was a scapegoat for Jennings poor play and Buonos awful coaching.

Edited January 6, 2018 by Goalie

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

1 hour ago, Noeller said:

It's ridiculous to go claiming you know exactly what happened and why. 

I don't recall anyone on these forums claiming that they knew what was going on for certain.  I think most everybody on this forum takes it for granted that every post about what is happening is assumed to be prefaced with "in my opinion" or" i think". Just because they fail to mention imo or iirc or i think doesn't mean they know everything... Just a bit lazy and trusting....

 

 

All the above is only my humbled opinion?

 

[GCn20]

1 hour ago, Booch said:

I'm fine with this actually..and agree a lot of the yards that piled up was due to lack of execution. 

Watching a lot of the games over and and noticed significant number of plays where if Hurl had more athletism and for lack of better term talent that many a play would have been stuffed for no gain or minimal and a lot of time it was on 2nd down and would have got us ball back and limited clock eating drives.

Same with Thomas..sure he made some nice plays but too many times he got washed away or nullified..especially when he was getting more reps in a game and that was a lack of execution issue due to ratio/depth...especially after Westerman got hurt. 

Fogg and Walker too..inexperience caused a lot of execution issues that if they did things right..wwould have been a positive defensive play.

As for scape goats..noone is really saying the coaches not being brought back are being used as that.. but perhaps Missick wasn't getting things across good enough to have our guys positioned better or coached up better...we don't know the inner workings of things and can only speculate...same with Howard but again who knows.

I do know though that once we altered ratio and went basically with 4 imports on d-line and rotated the ends inside and out..dropping into flats etc and bringing Knox off the edge as a rusher (which he did very well and was very disruptive..watch film and see) we had arguably one of the best fronts for the last 4-5 games of season...and that can be attributed to Hall I can guarantee that..so he can change his philosophy and mindset...and given a true MLB and continued work upfront.. and some Oshea input/tweaks I see good things happening.. .and if they stink the joint well..Hall can be scapegoated then.

The real wild card is Younger...I LOVE this signing.. he is a great coach and you will see it reflected in our DB play this year.

People I have talked to say he is a great mind and has a real progressive vision and coaching philosophy...he is a real good candidate to become the next Orlondo Stienhauer..just u watch

I agree Booch. In a defensive backfield philosophy that predicates on giving the DBs some carte blanche to cheat a little at times to get turnovers, I can't think of a better coach than Younger to guide our DBs on when to and not to make these decisions.  He was the master of this as a player and will get the defensive backfield in order. I love the hiring of Younger, he fits our defensive system perfectly.