When do we fire Richie Hall?

[SpeedFlex27]

58 minutes ago, Goalie said:

I wanted Hall gone also.. Was convinced it would happen but to put it all on Hall is crazy.... At some point.. You gotta look at the players... Like our loss to Edmonton... It was breakdowns in coverage... Dbs got beat... Is that on Hall or is it on the players? Maybe some of our players on D (more than just Hurl) werent good enough? 

I've never seen a team use their MLB like we did Hurl before. In bantam football (14 year olds) you have pluggers who are like extra OLB's called who just stay close to the end of the LOS turning the play inside for the lbs by stepping into a rb path on a sweep or off tackle play if the back books it outside. Hurl reminded me of a plugger playing inside. Just diving into the LOS & plugging a gap on every running play. Compare how we played Hurl to other MLBs in the CFL.  Imagine if Solomon Elimimian was used that way. 

Edited January 6, 2018 by SpeedFlex27

[Floyd]

I do agree that Younger will be our next DC... as for when, well let's see if Hurl gets re-signed or not first

#babysteps

[17to85]

1 hour ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

We'll see what happens next year. Bottom line our defense has to play much better for the Bombers to get to & win the Grey Cup. 

Yes we will see what happens next year and yes the D does need to improve, but none of that has anything to do with your claims that they're throwing assistants under the bus and absolving blame from Hall. 

I'd say that with O'Shea indicating he will be more involved that is a pretty big "on notice" to Hall. 

[DR. CFL]

While I agree that Hiring Younger is a good move declaring him as the heir apparent as DC might be a little premature.  This surely is a pivotal year for the entire staff.

[SpeedFlex27]

7 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Yes we will see what happens next year and yes the D does need to improve, but none of that has anything to do with your claims that they're throwing assistants under the bus and absolving blame from Hall. 

I'd say that with O'Shea indicating he will be more involved that is a pretty big "on notice" to Hall. 

And since you don't work for the Bombers you don't know if they weren't, either. Both of us don't really know as weren't in on the discussions that led to the Hall decision.  So, my opinion carries as much weight as yours. #speculation

[17to85]

the difference is that I am not making statements like you and passing them off as fact. I know that I don't know, you are quite different.

[SpeedFlex27]

14 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

the difference is that I am not making statements like you and passing them off as fact. I know that I don't know, you are quite different.

 

Yeah, you are. You do it all the time & get all pissy about it  when you do on any number of subjects here. You're right & everyone else is wrong so how can you say you don't? LOL. 

[Brandon]

I cannot provide a valid opinion on if the guy should go or not as for myself I have not watched hours and hours of game film and was not in on what each players assignments were and how they executed.    I will put my faith to the guys who have done this and do this for a living.  

[Noeller]

23 minutes ago, Brandon said:

I cannot provide a valid opinion on if the guy should go or not as for myself I have not watched hours and hours of game film and was not in on what each players assignments were and how they executed.    I will put my faith to the guys who have done this and do this for a living.  

I could not have summed up my position any better than this. 

[Goalie]

27 minutes ago, Brandon said:

I cannot provide a valid opinion on if the guy should go or not as for myself I have not watched hours and hours of game film and was not in on what each players assignments were and how they executed.    I will put my faith to the guys who have done this and do this for a living.  

Well said. As much as i was convinced Hall was gone.. I agree 100 percent

[TBURGESS]

Early in this thread. Hall's got to go. Most everyone agrees.

The Bombers keep Hall and get rid of some coaches. Now we get 'Everyone should have faith in the guys who make the decisions so it's OK that we kept Hall' and 'It was the other coaches and players who've been at fault since Hall came here, but firing them isn't throwing them under the bus' and my personal favorite 'O'Shea taking more interest in the D will turn it around'. Folks who don't agree are just Hall haters, don't know what they are talking about and are making claims without saying IMHO first.

Typical off season so far.

[17to85]

2 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

 

Yeah, you are. You do it all the time & get all pissy about it  when you do on any number of subjects here. You're right & everyone else is wrong so how can you say you don't? LOL. 

Actually if you notice I generally throw in lots of vague statements which provides ample room to backtrack out of things should the need arise. Yeah I argue, yeah I take positions some people don't make, but I rarely make statements that are as definitive as you did with the "they're throwing assistants under the bus" 

[SpeedFlex27]

1 hour ago, 17to85 said:

Actually if you notice I generally throw in lots of vague statements which provides ample room to backtrack out of things should the need arise. Yeah I argue, yeah I take positions some people don't make, but I rarely make statements that are as definitive as you did with the "they're throwing assistants under the bus" 

Yes, you do argue. Vague statements thrown in? You're pretty direct. But fired coaches while the boss stays is to me, throwing them under the bus. If that's definitive, so be it. BTW, I've never had a problem with your posting style. 

Edited January 7, 2018 by SpeedFlex27

[Tracker]

4 hours ago, Brandon said:

I cannot provide a valid opinion on if the guy should go or not as for myself I have not watched hours and hours of game film and was not in on what each players assignments were and how they executed.    I will put my faith to the guys who have done this and do this for a living.  

With all due respect, that hasn't worked well for us- look at our history over the last 12 years and the coaches and GMs who have come and gone. Many of those were epically bad and I would wager that when the majority opinion was reached here that a given player, coach and/or GM was irredeemably incompetent, the axe fell on that person and rightfully so. Managers, coaches and boards are human and thus fallible.  On the other hand, there have been those in this forum who defended Mack, Reinbold, Daley, Willy, Kuale, etc. right down to the moment when the blade reached the necks of these.  

[Mark F]

3down nation has some of O'Shea's remarks posted.

eg

"The first goal is to have guys come in and understand what we’re doing and for them to be really in the right spot so that we don’t give up the big plays"

Communication breakdown between the coachs and the players. Or, players not doing their part, studying playbook, game films, etc. or players just not good enough,/smart enough, or most likely,

Probably a bit of all of those.  Can't cut all the players I guess, so can the coach.

I never played, but it seems to me that D back is the hardest position to play on defence, the easiest one to screw up.

Next up, linebacker signing watch.

Edited January 7, 2018 by Mark F

[Mark H.]

3 hours ago, Mark F said:

I never played, but it seems to me that D back is the hardest position to play on defence, the easiest one to screw up.

Indeed, with the halfback position being most important. If I were to rank the importance of positions on a CFL team:

1. QB

2. Blind Side Tackle (OL)

3. Defensive Halfback 

[Noeller]

I'd rank that hybrid spot Leggett plays pretty high on the list... 

[Mark H.]

20 minutes ago, Noeller said:

I'd rank that hybrid spot Leggett plays pretty high on the list... 

Probably #4. I rank the halfbacks first because they usually cover the slotbacks and/or any passes thrown up the middle. 

[Floyd]

22 minutes ago, Mark H. said:

Probably #4. I rank the halfbacks first because they usually cover the slotbacks and/or any passes thrown up the middle. 

I’d be inclined to list MLB at #3 - the decisions he makes before and at the snap can influence the entire play...  most often captain of the D

[Booch]

Probably the most difficult position on the defence..especially for Americans coming up is the halfback pisition.

That's a non existent position coming from American ball and the extra man..motion..looks and coverage/run support responsibilities are all new basically...and when you find good halfbacks who can absorb this and function well you do your best to keep them

[SpeedFlex27]

Defensive halfback position for the simple reason the slots have a running start on every pass play. To be able to cover the slots well even with such a big disadvantage is a huge adjustment from American football & takes a special kind of player. 

Edited January 7, 2018 by SpeedFlex27

[Goalie]

On 06/01/2018 at 4:29 PM, SpeedFlex27 said:

I've never seen a team use their MLB like we did Hurl before. In bantam football (14 year olds) you have pluggers who are like extra OLB's called who just stay close to the end of the LOS turning the play inside for the lbs by stepping into a rb path on a sweep or off tackle play if the back books it outside. Hurl reminded me of a plugger playing inside. Just diving into the LOS & plugging a gap on every running play. Compare how we played Hurl to other MLBs in the CFL.  Imagine if Solomon Elimimian was used that way. 

Me neither and their biggest offseason D priority should be to find a MLB. 

[Floyd]

https://www.winnipegfreepress.com/sports/football/bombers/hall-needs-to-take-harder-line-on-player-accountability-468318353.html

Doug Brown talking about players going rogue...  says Hall needs to fix that - kind of a nothing article.

Both sides of this argument seem rough on Hall... if players are ignoring the coach after 2-3 years, that's on the coach...  if they are ignoring the coach to make big plays, are we sure Hall should get credit for those big plays?

[SPuDS]

On 1/6/2018 at 1:29 PM, SpeedFlex27 said:

My biggest issue with all of this is throwing the 2 assistants under the bus & basically blaming them for the issues on defense. Hall was the architect of the Bomber defense. The assistants teach Hall's philosophy to their players. Hall designs the schemes & yet... even though he has failed he still gets to keep his job but it's the assistants fault. This decision makes no sense at all..

I have a huge concern about this off season so far. We have see some teams being very aggressive looking to improve for next year. Ottawa relieves Mark Nelson of his DC duties replacing him with Noel Thorpe. The Als cleaning house of their coaching staff which was expected. The Lions firing Khari Jones & other offensive assistant coaches. Meanwhile it took O'Shea 2 months to make his decision on Hall. 

dont you have have huge concerns every off-season though? lol.

 

and I don't get this, just because other teams do things one way... we are clearly doing things wrong and heading for a nose dive into the depths of hell?

 

you do realize we just came off of back to back double digit wins and are clearly trending upwards?

[Floyd]

30 minutes ago, SPuDS said:

dont you have have huge concerns every off-season though? lol.

and I don't get this, just because other teams do things one way... we are clearly doing things wrong and heading for a nose dive into the depths of hell?

you do realize we just came off of back to back double digit wins and are clearly trending upwards?

The Hall concerns are EXACTLY the same this off-season as last off-season... and the answer is almost exactly the same - players need to step up, Osh will play greater role, we're bringing in new blood...  so that's kind of a huge concern.

Ottawa ending up with Noel Thorpe AND Nelson was the biggest coup this off-season...  really think either of those guys would make the bombers a GC team