When do we fire Richie Hall?

[blue_gold_84]

3 hours ago, BomberBall said:

We definitely needed a better option in the middle, no doubt, but O’Shea started Knox over Santos-Knox and we know how that went.

Who knows, maybe O’Shea insisted that Hurl was his guy at MLB?  I doubt it, but we have no idea.

All I was saying is that O’Shea is part of the whole process.

I agree. I just don't think management addressed the position adequately at all during the off-season. But they all share in the blame as far as that blunder goes.

[SPuDS]

On 11/21/2017 at 5:58 PM, 17to85 said:

Or did Santos L. Halper just need more time before he was ready? 

I think this is the reason to be honest.   I think Knox had more time in the system so O'shea went with him first to see if he had "it" while Santos developed and learned the position.   Once he picked it up and Knox was showing poorly... the rest is history.

 

we can't overlook the fact that there is a pecking order to the depth chart.. guys who have put in their time, get their shot.   I'm perfectly fine with that, this is how it should be IMO.. leap frogging people on the depth chart can easily cause dissension in the ranks..

[Fatty Liver]

34 minutes ago, SPuDS said:

I think this is the reason to be honest.   I think Knox had more time in the system so O'shea went with him first to see if he had "it" while Santos developed and learned the position.   Once he picked it up and Knox was showing poorly... the rest is history.

 

we can't overlook the fact that there is a pecking order to the depth chart.. guys who have put in their time, get their shot.   I'm perfectly fine with that, this is how it should be IMO.. leap frogging people on the depth chart can easily cause dissension in the ranks..

Problem is mid-late season upgrades are almost non-existent under the current system because of this established pecking order.

[Stickem]

1 hour ago, Throw Long Bannatyne said:

Problem is mid-late season upgrades are almost non-existent under the current system because of this established pecking order.

And or making a trade to better ourselves...Very reluctant we are....We might have to look at it IF we can't get a middle linebacker in here who is worth a salt...It sure makes me drool when I see guys like Solly in B.C. or even that little guy in Edm., Sherritt  play the position the way it's supposed to be played...I don't like giving up assets BUT IF we could land a stud for the middle our D line becomes one of ,if not best in the league with the talent we already have.

[Guest J5V]

6 hours ago, SPuDS said:

we can't overlook the fact that there is a pecking order to the depth chart.. guys who have put in their time, get their shot.   I'm perfectly fine with that, this is how it should be IMO.. leap frogging people on the depth chart can easily cause dissension in the ranks..

Sorry Spuds, but I couldn't disagree more. The only "order" should be ability to play the game. The best players, play. If a player has a beef with someone better taking his spot then so be it, ask for a trade and go play for someone else.

Now if you mean players of equal or near equal ability, like a young hotshot compared to an established veteran, then I agree with you. The vet plays and the young hotshot waits his turn.

But if a player shows himself to be clearly superior to another then he plays. As the Head Coach I feel you owe that to the organization, the fans, the team, and the CFL.

 

[SPuDS]

26 minutes ago, J5V said:

Sorry Spuds, but I couldn't disagree more. The only "order" should be ability to play the game. The best players, play. If a player has a beef with someone better taking his spot then so be it, ask for a trade and go play for someone else.

Now if you mean players of equal or near equal ability, like a young hotshot compared to an established veteran, then I agree with you. The vet plays and the young hotshot waits his turn.

But if a player shows himself to be clearly superior to another then he plays. As the Head Coach I feel you owe that to the organization, the fans, the team, and the CFL.

 

I dont really care what you agree with, its been shown since hes been here that this is the order of things.   Agree or not, its what our coach does when he decides who slots into into the lineup.

 

See, Flanders over Thorpe or Knox over Santos but there is many other spots I can point to.  Do I agree with it?  sure do.  Like I said, dissension in the ranks can easily be caused by people who have put in their time and effort being stepped over for someone who's been here a few weeks..

 

and I don't think many of our players have out-shone their counterparts to the point of being able to leap frog with the possible exception of Santos over Knox.. but he really only showed real well on the Teams, much like Knox did.

[Judd]

On 21/11/2017 at 5:58 PM, 17to85 said:

Or did Santos L. Halper just need more time before he was ready? 

Lmao so good. I also think you didn't get the cred you deserved with this reference 

[Guest J5V]

1 hour ago, SPuDS said:

I dont really care what you agree with, its been shown since hes been here that this is the order of things.   Agree or not, its what our coach does when he decides who slots into into the lineup.

Yes you do and should because you and O'Shea are wrong.

1 hour ago, SPuDS said:

Like I said, dissension in the ranks can easily be caused by people who have put in their time and effort being stepped over for someone who's been here a few weeks..

There will be no dissention. What player doesn't understand losing his job to someone who is clearly better? The weaker player may find a role as a depth player and if that's not good enough he'll be culled from the herd. 

[Goalie]

2 hours ago, J5V said:

Yes you do and should because you and O'Shea are wrong.

There will be no dissention. What player doesn't understand losing his job to someone who is clearly better? The weaker player may find a role as a depth player and if that's not good enough he'll be culled from the herd. 

Man... Its one thing to say a poster on a fan site is wrong but when you are truly delushional enough to believe you know more than a pro coach... Bro... Just stop. 

Are you that old guy that sends in his resume to the team every year? Bob Ganason or something? Cuz yeah.. In the scheme of things... You don't know half as much as you like to pretend you do. Just totally delushional... Probably one of those guys who has never played the game at a high level. You are just embarassing

Edited November 24, 2017 by Goalie

[Guest J5V]

9 hours ago, Goalie said:

Man... Its one thing to say a poster on a fan site is wrong but when you are truly delushional enough to believe you know more than a pro coach... Bro... Just stop. 

Are you that old guy that sends in his resume to the team every year? Bob Ganason or something? Cuz yeah.. In the scheme of things... You don't know half as much as you like to pretend you do. Just totally delushional... Probably one of those guys who has never played the game at a high level. You are just embarassing

Just my opinion. Hey, if you think it' a good idea to play inferior players just say so. I can always use a good laugh. And you think I'm delusional? Good one. 

[DR. CFL]

Show me a pro player who doesn't think he is better than the next guy and he's someone you probably don't want on your team. Confidence and mental toughness is a critical part of  the game

[Atomic]

This conversation is actually ********.  No coach is going to hold back a better player forever.  The difference is simply in how quickly they pull the trigger. 

On one end of the spectrum you have Chris Jones who will rip a player out of the lineup after one mistake.  On the other end you have Mike O'Shea who allows players to learn from their mistakes and grow.  Both approaches have pros and cons.  Neither one is correct or incorrect.  There is no one "perfect" way to coach a football team, or else everyone would do it that way.

[Tracker]

4 hours ago, J5V said:

Just my opinion. Hey, if you think it' a good idea to play inferior players just say so. I can always use a good laugh. And you think I'm delusional? Good one. 

My invisible friend thinks you have mental problems.

[SPuDS]

15 hours ago, J5V said:

Yes you do and should because you and O'Shea are wrong.

There will be no dissention. What player doesn't understand losing his job to someone who is clearly better? The weaker player may find a role as a depth player and if that's not good enough he'll be culled from the herd. 

No... I really don't.  Why would I care what some wingnut thinks about the coach and his decision making?? That don't confront me none.   The coaches methods got us to 11-7 and 12-6, so I'm going to think hes doing something right contrary to your own misguided beliefs.

 

the "weaker" players do get weeded out after showing poorly.  Carmicheal, Knox, Posey, etc all were removed from the roster after showing poorly were they not? 

 

and like mentioned, you've clearly not been in many locker rooms because dissension in the ranks DOES happen.. .look at Montreal, Hamilton.. sometimes its because players are skipped over, sometimes its from mismanaged games or coaches clashing with players.. just because you don't agree with it, doesn't mean it doesn't happen.. lol.  Bit of a high thought of your own opinion

[bluto]

8 hours ago, Atomic said:

This conversation is actually ********.  No coach is going to hold back a better player forever.  The difference is simply in how quickly they pull the trigger.

Example:

We can agree that Trestman is a pretty good coach, right?

Our biggest turning point was switching Whittaker (a player Trestman loves, has a past with, and still isn't all used up) for Wilder Jr. Once that happened (and our defence got healthy), we were a different team.

It took until Sept 16 for Trestman to make the switch.

[Blueandgold]

8 hours ago, Atomic said:

This conversation is actually ********.  No coach is going to hold back a better player forever.  The difference is simply in how quickly they pull the trigger. 

On one end of the spectrum you have Chris Jones who will rip a player out of the lineup after one mistake.  On the other end you have Mike O'Shea who allows players to learn from their mistakes and grow.  Both approaches have pros and cons.  Neither one is correct or incorrect.  There is no one "perfect" way to coach a football team, or else everyone would do it that way.

The issue I see here is that, our biggest weakness this year was starting Sam Hurl for 18 games. 

This was also one of our teams biggest flaws in 2015. How can you justify having the same problem for that long on a football team? It’s asinine. 

[Floyd]

osh seems to have a blind spot for MLB - other guys like Carmichael and Frederick lose their job after 2-3 bad games while hurl and kuale got an endless amount of rope

[DR. CFL]

Curious as to what y'all might do if in fact Hall doesn't get gunned?

[Atomic]

2 hours ago, Blueandgold said:

The issue I see here is that, our biggest weakness this year was starting Sam Hurl for 18 games. 

This was also one of our teams biggest flaws in 2015. How can you justify having the same problem for that long on a football team? It’s asinine. 

It's a problem.  I'm not sure I agree it was the biggest problem, but yes it's a problem.

The lack of viable replacements brought in by the GM and scouting staff is also a problem.  MOS can only work with what he is given.

[JCon]

30 minutes ago, DR. CFL said:

Curious as to what y'all might do if in fact Hall doesn't get gunned?

Shake my fist.

Post disparaging comments on MBB.

[Guest J5V]

4 hours ago, SPuDS said:

the "weaker" players do get weeded out after showing poorly.  Carmicheal, Knox, Posey, etc all were removed from the roster after showing poorly were they not? 

No. It took for-freaking-ever and we were force-fed a nauseating dose of Hurl for the whole bloody season. No other coach in the league would have put up with that crap yet you refuse to ackowledge there's a problem there. Talk about wingnuts!

[SPuDS]

10 minutes ago, J5V said:

No. It took for-freaking-ever and we were force-fed a nauseating dose of Hurl for the whole bloody season. No other coach in the league would have put up with that crap yet you refuse to ackowledge there's a problem there. Talk about wingnuts!

as mentioned earlier.. O'shea can only work with the players he has been given.    What's he supposed to do, march into his bosses office and tell him his player management skills are failing?   You also seem to forget that going with an american at MLB would cause a shuffling of the deck on the D-line or O-line and would be detrimental to the other parts of the team..

but hey, keep shouting "rabble rabble rabble!" and maybe one day someone will listen..

 

 

[Booch]

Once it was determined that the MLB experiment had failed we were hooped as we didn't have any ratio options to fix that spot, without severely impacting  roster elsewhere in a negative way.

2 National receivers while the offence was humming would have hurt us more than Hurl in as the offense was able to for the most part mask the defensive deficiency.

Thomas full-time spelled off with Ekakite would have made defense significantly weaker, and originally the thought of Bond out for Neufeld seemed like it would be a downgrade, but truthfully the line never skipped a beat and that was with a depleted receiving corp, and no Nichols for a  game and a gimpy one when he was back .  I think Neuf was just unfortunate injury wise and maybe the light load the last two years has helped him fully heal and recover to become that full-time guy now..we shall see.

Would like to have seen tho how a backfield with Jones on a corner and Alexander/Walker at the half would have fared tho as an option...would have been no worse than what transpired all year, and would have been nice ratio wise...We do have Banning and Conteh to groom in behind him...so we do have the pieces..

[SPuDS]

16 minutes ago, Booch said:

Once it was determined that the MLB experiment had failed we were hooped as we didn't have any ratio options to fix that spot, without severely impacting  roster elsewhere in a negative way.

2 National receivers while the offence was humming would have hurt us more than Hurl in as the offense was able to for the most part mask the defensive deficiency.

Thomas full-time spelled off with Ekakite would have made defense significantly weaker, and originally the thought of Bond out for Neufeld seemed like it would be a downgrade, but truthfully the line never skipped a beat and that was with a depleted receiving corp, and no Nichols for a  game and a gimpy one when he was back .  I think Neuf was just unfortunate injury wise and maybe the light load the last two years has helped him fully heal and recover to become that full-time guy now..we shall see.

Would like to have seen tho how a backfield with Jones on a corner and Alexander/Walker at the half would have fared tho as an option...would have been no worse than what transpired all year, and would have been nice ratio wise...We do have Banning and Conteh to groom in behind him...so we do have the pieces..

I think this is something they must be gearing towards with bringing in Branning and Conteh.. unless they are just ST fodder... that or giving themselves as many options as possible..

 

I've always liked using a canadian in the secondary personally, beyond just the safety..

Edited November 24, 2017 by SPuDS
forgot last part

[Guest J5V]

1 hour ago, SPuDS said:

What's he supposed to do, march into his bosses office and tell him his player management skills are failing?

I would have been doing a helluva lot more than that. It amazes me how people like you are always making excuses for the people responsible for the crap players around here. If you truly want to win a championship and be the best you're going to need the best players and accept nothing less. If you were a buyer for my company you'd have been fired long ago.