Saskatchewan @ Toronto

[Fatty Liver]

20 hours ago, WBBFanWest said:

So wait, does that mean that Rider fans outnumbered Argos fans?

I was impressed with the crowd that came out for the E.F. game, would really love to see a demographic breakdown of where the hell all those Argo fans came from.  A lot of them were dressed in Argo gear and totally engaged in the game so I don't think that audience was the result of papering the house or corporate freebies for their  corporate ******-bag employees.

Edited November 21, 2017 by Throw Long Bannatyne

[bearpants]

I'm pretty sure Toronto does have fans... they just don't go to the stadium... 

Mitch Marner and Austin Matthews were there... so naturally TSN's lead story is about how Marner is an Argo's fan and Babcock is from Sask... far more important than the game itself...

[WBBFanWest]

23 minutes ago, Throw Long Bannatyne said:

I was impressed with the crowd that came out for the E.S.F. game, would really love to see a demographic breakdown of where the hell all those Argo fans came from.  A lot of them were dressed in Argo gear and totally engaged in the game so I don't think that audience was the result of papering the house or corporate freebies to  corporate ******-bag employees.

I think there was a promotion going on.  I believe it was: "Come to a free Argo's game and we'll drive you there,  give you a jersey to wear, buy you a meal afterwards and give you tickets to something you'd really want to go to " night.   I also understand that the time spent at an Argo's game can be used for "community service" in the Ontario fine option program.

Edited November 21, 2017 by WBBFanWest

[do or die]

4 minutes ago, WBBFanWest said:

I think there was a promotion going on.  I believe it was: "Come to a free Argo's game and we'll drive you there,  give you a jersey to wear, buy you a meal afterwards and give you tickets to something you'd really want to go to " night.   I also understand that the time spent at an Argo's game can be used for "community service" in the Ontario fine option program.

You failed to mention the  complimentary tax receipt.......

[bluto]

55 minutes ago, Throw Long Bannatyne said:

I was impressed with the crowd that came out for the E.F. game, would really love to see a demographic breakdown of where the hell all those Argo fans came from.  A lot of them were dressed in Argo gear and totally engaged in the game so I don't think that audience was the result of papering the house or corporate freebies to  corporate ******-bag employees.

905'ers... east, west and north. All good football fans (as was likely in evidence on tv).

[WBBFanWest]

21 minutes ago, bluto said:

905'ers... east, west and north. All good football fans (as was likely in evidence on tv).

That's cute.  905'ers.  I know that some people are likely thinking "area code" but I think it's neat how you  know the exact number of Argo fans in Toronto! 

[bluto]

17 minutes ago, WBBFanWest said:

That's cute.  905'ers.  I know that some people are likely thinking "area code" but I think it's neat how you  know the exact number of Argo fans in Toronto! 

Your broken record comment is becoming dickish. Check the TV ratings in southern Ontario, there's several hundred thousand of us.

[WBBFanWest]

1 hour ago, bluto said:

Your broken record comment is becoming dickish. Check the TV ratings in southern Ontario, there's several hundred thousand of us.

Ticket sales would disagree with your estimate.  Or maybe in the east, one is considered a fan if they can identify the team logo two times out of three.  Considering the number of times that the rest of the CFL (especially here in the west) have bailed out your team, I think the word that you're looking for not "dickish", it's "understandable".   Not to worry Bluto, some of us may make fun, but we'll be here for you the next time your team needs rescuing. 

[bluto]

Just now, WBBFanWest said:

Ticket sales would disagree with your estimate.  Or maybe in the east, one is considered a fan if they can identify the team logo two times out of three.  Considering the number of times that the rest of the CFL (especially here in the west) have bailed out your team, I think the word that you're looking for not "dickish", it's "understandable".   Not to worry Bluto, some of us may make fun, but we'll be here for you the next time your team needs rescuing. 

Not my estimate... Neilsen ratings. And your woeful ignorance of the issues the GTA presents the CFL is showing... or was that your zeal for putting down a fanbase that you don't particularly like to give yourself a feeling of superiority?

As for calling your comment dickish, I stand by it. You make the same sort of comment virtually every time the Argonauts, Toronto, or me enter into the conversation.

So I won't feel as though I'm missing anything by adding you to my block list.

 

Not precisely the sort of thing that I would have wished for on the august occasion of my 1000th post, but there we are.

And piggybacking on that, I'd like to say a quick thanks to the ownership and management of MBB for establishing and keeping a good thing going. It is with no small amount of pride that I (as a Morning Big Blue OG) look back on the small role that I played in bringing the events to bear that launched this site and torpedoed that other POS.

[blue_gold_84]

Despite the pretty solid TV viewership numbers, attendance at actual Argonauts games continues to be awfully low. Could you perhaps shed some light on why the latter remains an issue, @bluto? As an outsider, I am genuinely interested in hearing your perspective on that and what you think could be done to remedy it.

[WBBFanWest]

3 hours ago, bluto said:

Not my estimate... Neilsen ratings. And your woeful ignorance of the issues the GTA presents the CFL is showing... or was that your zeal for putting down a fanbase that you don't particularly like to give yourself a feeling of superiority?

As for calling your comment dickish, I stand by it. You make the same sort of comment virtually every time the Argonauts, Toronto, or me enter into the conversation.

So I won't feel as though I'm missing anything by adding you to my block list.

 

Oh no, a fan from a rival team has blocked me!   Funny, but I seem to remember Bluto giving all sorts of excuses as to why people wouldn't support the Argos when they were at the Dome, but just wait until they move to a "real football stadium", then you'd see their true colors.  Seems like a new batch of excuses might be needed.   I'm actually glad that he won't read this because it might just burst his bubble, because if he's going by Nielsen rating to determine the number of Argo "fans" then he's got a problem.  If people might occasionally watch a game from home and nothing else, then the best that can be said is that they are fans that know which team they're ignoring.   

The Toronto Argonauts - their logo should be a black hole sucking in dollar signs.  Go Stamps!

[bluto]

7 hours ago, blue_gold_84 said:

Despite the pretty solid TV viewership numbers, attendance at actual Argonauts games continues to be awfully low. Could you perhaps shed some light on why the latter remains an issue, @bluto? As an outsider, I am genuinely interested in hearing your perspective on that and what you think could be done to remedy it.

Funny story: at work we keep the lobby television on the local 24 hour news station. Been that way for years. Now, I've heard the occasional Argo score announced on there... I've seen the cheerleaders on the breakfast show... I've even seen Pinball on there when he's doing his charity work... But you'd never say that the Argos get coverage on par with what a major sport franchise ought to get.

This past Monday however (yesterday), the Boatmen were on repeat all day long. Recaps of the game... even brief recaps of the western final... live interview from Ray... taped interview from Trestman... live interview from Wilder Jr. ... I literally had to check several times to see if it was the same channel as always. The Argos were getting the Bigtime treatment and all I could think was: i) where the hell has this been all these years, and ii) thank Flutie the Leafs didn't play last night.

For whatever reason, the various media congloms here in Hogtown have considered it part of their culture to ignore the CFL as scrupulously as possible.Rogers sure as heck won't promote it (as it's a TSN property) and in this town, that will mostly bury you. What has been baffling has been the lack of a push from the local Bell properties. Anyway, suffice it to say that despite drawing major advertisers, doing huge ratings and delivering championships every few years, the Argos get the silent treatment.

Then there's where the fans are. Here's a family friendly, affordable event in the heart of the city that has 46% of its citizens having being born in foreign lands and have no connection to North American football let alone the CFL. Does that mean you can't market to them? No... but have you seen what it takes, dollar-wise, to market a product in this city? Frankly, even a half-ass digital/TV/Radio/Print campaign for a short period of time costs more than your franchise is worth. And the silence is deafening. And it isn't as if there aren't a million other options for your entertainment dollar in this burg...

So where are your traditional fans? Where are the ones you can lure out to a game if you finally get a nice stadium where your fans aren't treated with hostility (Roger centre) and you don't end up with a schedule full of Wednesday games (Blue Jays)... well, presuming you get a good schedule (this season's was the best in a longgg time) you can hope that the traditional CFL fans will come back into the city from the 905 area code (and in some cases the 519 like from Kitchener, 705 like from Barrie, or the 613 like from Belleville). Because that's where the traditional CFL fans and families have migrated to. 

So imagine you're ArgoDave. He finished work at 5 in Kitchener, had his car already loaded and wifey patiently waiting for him to go into the city with the worst traffic in North America, burn a tank of gas in doing so, pay $25 for parking to barely make it in time for the kickoff (if you're lucky) to pay $11.50 for a large import (yup... can't even catch a buzz for $50). Then you watch a rebuilding team that was shaky for large parts of the season and fight traffic to go home and hopefully you're there before 1am. 

Or maybe you're a Go Train commuter and you do the same thing minus the parking fee and tank of gas but you get shoehorned into a train car and then drive home from whatever station yu parked at and try to be home by 1am.

Of course, you could always stay home and drink $2.50 premium microbrews out of your basement fridge while reclining in your lazy-boy and watching in HD on your 60" screen.

This is the problem in a nutshell. You can't market to them because it costs too much. You can't make it any easier to get to and from the games. You can't lower your concession prices for various reasons. You can't give them free parking. You can't target the people who live closer because they don't know you. 

Best you can hope for is a gradual process of gaining these people back while luring new customers. The atmosphere at BMO is really good. Combine that with winning football and the occasional bigtime treatment from the local media and it will work out... but then... sometimes you launch a new season in a new field and you finish last in the league. Yeah... we win Grey Cups in this town, but we also shoot ourselves in the foot every time it looks like we can gain a better foothold and return to the halcyon days of the late 70's and early 80's when we'd have 40k out to the Ex for the Argos every weekend. 

Long post. Kinda rambling. And if I'm honest it's just exhausting rehashing this every year or so. Yeah, you hate us, but without us, there'd be no top level national sponsors like Nissan that would touch the league. And the money in the league is good right now. The CFL is a viable career for a football player and for a few it's an excellent springboard to a 7 figure contract down south. So if it's all the same to you guys, I think we should all just be on board with the Argos having deep playoff runs and lots of home wins for a couple of years and see if we can't duplicate that crowd from Sunday every week. K?  Thx.

Edited November 22, 2017 by bluto

[SPuDS]

6 minutes ago, bluto said:

I promise that I will this evening... but I'm just wrapping up in the office now and I'm going to look at a few houses after work.

this post is a place holder.

good luck on the house hunting!

[bustamente]

25 minutes ago, blue_gold_84 said:

Despite the pretty solid TV viewership numbers, attendance at actual Argonauts games continues to be awfully low. Could you perhaps shed some light on why the latter remains an issue, @bluto? As an outsider, I am genuinely interested in hearing your perspective on that and what you think could be done to remedy it.

So would I, we kept hearing that Rogers Centre was a poor venue for football and if they played outdoors in a more quaint facility that people would be more inclined to attend, well that has not happened . Surely a city the size of Toronto and the GTA would be able to get 22-25k people to a football game once every 2 weeks. TFC has no problem filling the place but we just keep hearing excuses as to why the football club does not attract more patrons. 

[17to85]

1 hour ago, blue_gold_84 said:

Despite the pretty solid TV viewership numbers, attendance at actual Argonauts games continues to be awfully low. Could you perhaps shed some light on why the latter remains an issue, @bluto? As an outsider, I am genuinely interested in hearing your perspective on that and what you think could be done to remedy it.

I think the gist of it is, no one actually live in Toronto and they'd rather sit home and watch games on TV that deal with the bullshit of getting to a stadium. 

[rebusrankin]

We need the Toronto market, end of story.

[Guest J5V]

44 minutes ago, bustamente said:

So would I, we kept hearing that Rogers Centre was a poor venue for football and if they played outdoors in a more quaint facility that people would be more inclined to attend, well that has not happened . Surely a city the size of Toronto and the GTA would be able to get 22-25k people to a football game once every 2 weeks. TFC has no problem filling the place but we just keep hearing excuses as to why the football club does not attract more patrons. 

Torontonians want an NFL franchise. The CFL will no longer do because, gosh, it's Toronto! The Centre of the Universe! 

[bustamente]

8 minutes ago, J5V said:

Torontonians want an NFL franchise. The CFL will no longer do because, gosh, it's Toronto! The Centre of the Universe! 

Well they might be waiting for a long time if the NFL ever decides to expand they are behind London and Mexico City maybe a team relocating would come to Toronto add to that they would need a stadium 

[WBBFanWest]

57 minutes ago, rebusrankin said:

We need the Toronto market, end of story.

Yes, because what would the CFL do with all their bailout money every five or so years.

[Arnold_Palmer]

We don't NEED a Toronto market.. however not having the biggest market in Canada would certainly make our league look bush league, but not as bush league as a city that's so big but can't even fill up a tiny stadium. 

[ALuCsRED]

1 hour ago, J5V said:

Torontonians want an NFL franchise. The CFL will no longer do because, gosh, it's Toronto! The Centre of the Universe! 

NFL attendence dropped through the whole Buffalo experiment.  This isn't the only reason

3 hours ago, blue_gold_84 said:

Despite the pretty solid TV viewership numbers, attendance at actual Argonauts games continues to be awfully low. Could you perhaps shed some light on why the latter remains an issue, @bluto? As an outsider, I am genuinely interested in hearing your perspective on that and what you think could be done to remedy it.

Over the last 2 years, I've been to Toronto twice.  My trips have included 4 Jays games, 2 Argos games, 1 Ticats game and a TFC game.

The Blue Jays got a lot of attention over the last 2 years.  Playoffs will do that.  81 games x 40,000 fans is a lot of fans.

For the Argos games, there are a lot of week night games, poor parking (expensive and not very close) in the area.  The GO Trains get close if coming from the east, but are a bit more of the pain if coming from other directions.  Both games I was at were poorly attended.   Pricing in the lower bowl is high.  Seats in the upper deck are uncomfortable.  Parking would even be tougher the days I was there as the CN Exhibition was on at the same time (like the Red River Ex).

The Ticat game had a good amount of rabid, football knowedgable fans.  Even at 0-9, the fans were great. 

TFC - Sure they play in the same stadium, but attract a completely different crowd.  Seating comfort doesn't matter as much, as fans stand for most of the game.  Lots of knowledgeable fans, lots of energy, and a lot of noise, starting with the south endzone.  I went on a weeknight with an 8 pm start.  The more expensive seats were still not filled on the sides.  The ends were full and highly energetic.  Again, I think parking is an issue.  Parking would even be tougher the days I was there as the CN Exhibition was on at the same time (like the Red River Ex).

[Rich]

3 hours ago, WBBFanWest said:

Oh no, a fan from a rival team has blocked me!   Funny, but I seem to remember Bluto giving all sorts of excuses as to why people wouldn't support the Argos when they were at the Dome, but just wait until they move to a "real football stadium", then you'd see their true colors.  Seems like a new batch of excuses might be needed.   I'm actually glad that he won't read this because it might just burst his bubble, because if he's going by Nielsen rating to determine the number of Argo "fans" then he's got a problem.  If people might occasionally watch a game from home and nothing else, then the best that can be said is that they are fans that know which team they're ignoring.   

The Toronto Argonauts - their logo should be a black hole sucking in dollar signs.  Go Stamps!

Not sure why you want to harp on Bluto so hard about this.  As far as fans from other teams posting here, Bluto has always been one of the better ones and any back and forth has been IMO friendly banter on his part.

And as far as support of the Argos go, why criticize Bluto about it when he is a Torontonian who actually supports the team.

I have no time for trolls and people who come here for that sole purpose, but this board could be a better place if there was more commentary and opinions from fans of other teams.  Their perspective can be interesting at times.

[do or die]

Have "known" Bluto for years, on multiple fan boards.........a straight up dude, who knows his onions.     He is welcome, anytime.....

[blue_gold_84]

4 hours ago, 17to85 said:

I think the gist of it is, no one actually live in Toronto and they'd rather sit home and watch games on TV that deal with the bullshit of getting to a stadium. 

I understand the challenge of going to a game on a weeknight (the CFL schedule is baffling at times), but for Friday night or weekend games, I'm surprised the attendance figures still remained so low. BMO Field is a really nice venue and it seemed pretty accessible from what I remember last November. Making an evening or day of it to see a live game seems like a no brainer.

[SpeedFlex27]

4 hours ago, J5V said:

Torontonians want an NFL franchise. The CFL will no longer do because, gosh, it's Toronto! The Centre of the Universe! 

Buffalo Bills say hi & send money. Lots of money, multi billions of it in US funds. The NFL says hey don't forget about me. I want my cut.