Saskatchewan @ Toronto

[Zontar]

S. Ontario tv numbers are the main reason there,s even still a league.

Challenge isnt to invent interest in people, it already exists. Challenge is to make attending a live game fun and comfortable and fashionable again

[bustamente]

Don't think the Argos will ever be fashionable TFC is the flavour of choice during the summer along with the Jays as long as they are winning, Leafs and Raptors pull them in during the Winter and the Argos are left with table scraps. I'm sure they have some great and passionate fans but there is just not enough of them and that's sad with GTA population of close to 6m.

[Goalie]

Ive read that tix to argos games are extremely expensive. Im sure that plays a role. 

The bottom line with Toronto tho... Is they like Montreal and Vancouver arent really a good sports town. They will support Jays if winning... Raps if Winning... But.. If not... Nope. 

[Jacquie]

If the Argos field a consistently winning team, the fans will return to the stands. Toronto supports winners and the Leafs. 

Edited November 22, 2017 by Jacquie

[blue_gold_84]

17 hours ago, bluto said:

Funny story: at work we keep the lobby television on the local 24 hour news station. Been that way for years. Now, I've heard the occasional Argo score announced on there... I've seen the cheerleaders on the breakfast show... I've even seen Pinball on there when he's doing his charity work... But you'd never say that the Argos get coverage on par with what a major sport franchise ought to get.

This past Monday however (yesterday), the Boatmen were on repeat all day long. Recaps of the game... even brief recaps of the western final... live interview from Ray... taped interview from Trestman... live interview from Wilder Jr. ... I literally had to check several times to see if it was the same channel as always. The Argos were getting the Bigtime treatment and all I could think was: i) where the hell has this been all these years, and ii) thank Flutie the Leafs didn't play last night.

For whatever reason, the various media congloms here in Hogtown have considered it part of their culture to ignore the CFL as scrupulously as possible.Rogers sure as heck won't promote it (as it's a TSN property) and in this town, that will mostly bury you. What has been baffling has been the lack of a push from the local Bell properties. Anyway, suffice it to say that despite drawing major advertisers, doing huge ratings and delivering championships every few years, the Argos get the silent treatment.

Then there's where the fans are. Here's a family friendly, affordable event in the heart of the city that has 46% of its citizens having being born in foreign lands and have no connection to North American football let alone the CFL. Does that mean you can't market to them? No... but have you seen what it takes, dollar-wise, to market a product in this city? Frankly, even a half-ass digital/TV/Radio/Print campaign for a short period of time costs more than your franchise is worth. And the silence is deafening. And it isn't as if there aren't a million other options for your entertainment dollar in this burg...

So where are your traditional fans? Where are the ones you can lure out to a game if you finally get a nice stadium where your fans aren't treated with hostility (Roger centre) and you don't end up with a schedule full of Wednesday games (Blue Jays)... well, presuming you get a good schedule (this season's was the best in a longgg time) you can hope that the traditional CFL fans will come back into the city from the 905 area code (and in some cases the 519 like from Kitchener, 705 like from Barrie, or the 613 like from Belleville). Because that's where the traditional CFL fans and families have migrated to. 

So imagine you're ArgoDave. He finished work at 5 in Kitchener, had his car already loaded and wifey patiently waiting for him to go into the city with the worst traffic in North America, burn a tank of gas in doing so, pay $25 for parking to barely make it in time for the kickoff (if you're lucky) to pay $11.50 for a large import (yup... can't even catch a buzz for $50). Then you watch a rebuilding team that was shaky for large parts of the season and fight traffic to go home and hopefully you're there before 1am. 

Or maybe you're a Go Train commuter and you do the same thing minus the parking fee and tank of gas but you get shoehorned into a train car and then drive home from whatever station yu parked at and try to be home by 1am.

Of course, you could always stay home and drink $2.50 premium microbrews out of your basement fridge while reclining in your lazy-boy and watching in HD on your 60" screen.

This is the problem in a nutshell. You can't market to them because it costs too much. You can't make it any easier to get to and from the games. You can't lower your concession prices for various reasons. You can't give them free parking. You can't target the people who live closer because they don't know you. 

Best you can hope for is a gradual process of gaining these people back while luring new customers. The atmosphere at BMO is really good. Combine that with winning football and the occasional bigtime treatment from the local media and it will work out... but then... sometimes you launch a new season in a new field and you finish last in the league. Yeah... we win Grey Cups in this town, but we also shoot ourselves in the foot every time it looks like we can gain a better foothold and return to the halcyon days of the late 70's and early 80's when we'd have 40k out to the Ex for the Argos every weekend. 

Long post. Kinda rambling. And if I'm honest it's just exhausting rehashing this every year or so. Yeah, you hate us, but without us, there'd be no top level national sponsors like Nissan that would touch the league. And the money in the league is good right now. The CFL is a viable career for a football player and for a few it's an excellent springboard to a 7 figure contract down south. So if it's all the same to you guys, I think we should all just be on board with the Argos having deep playoff runs and lots of home wins for a couple of years and see if we can't duplicate that crowd from Sunday every week. K?  Thx.

Thank you very much for putting the time and effort into replying. It's great to get a local perspective from someone who's clearly a diehard and has his finger on the pulse of the CFL in The Big Smoke. I think I speak for some, if not most, of us here when I say we don't hate you guys. Diehard fans appreciate diehard fans, especially ones who are knowledgeable and can discuss all teams and the league at large. I think you're spot on regarding the sponsorship aspect, something the CFL must have in order to succeed. And the reality is Toronto is where the bulk of that money lies.

It goes without saying success breeds followers, particularly in pro sports. The Argonauts should be a successful organization going forward with Popp and Trestman in charge, IMO. And hopefully, that'll put more fans in the seats in the near future.

[JCon]

I hear people complain about getting to IGF, justifying why they don't attend Bombers games, 65" inch HDTV at home, cheap beer, etc, etc, etc.

Now, imagine trying to get to BMO if you don't live near it or on a main transit line? If you've never lived in Southern Ontario, you don't realize how much time and work is involved in getting around.

Here, I get upset when there is a train and my 25 minute commute becomes 30-35 minutes long.

 

 

 

[blue_gold_84]

10 minutes ago, JCon said:

I hear people complain about getting to IGF, justifying why they don't attend Bombers games, 65" inch HDTV at home, cheap beer, etc, etc, etc.

Now, imagine trying to get to BMO if you don't live near it or on a main transit line? If you've never lived in Southern Ontario, you don't realize how much time and work is involved in getting around.

Here, I get upset when there is a train and my 25 minute commute becomes 30-35 minutes long.

I'm the same way. LOL 

It's all relative, of course. But getting around Toronto is its own crazy beast. Although, I love the expressways and public transit there.

[kelownabomberfan]

17 hours ago, J5V said:

Torontonians want an NFL franchise. The CFL will no longer do because, gosh, it's Toronto! The Centre of the Universe! 

I was watching that show on Sportsnet with that weird guy that wears sunglasses (McKown or something is his name I think) and he and his panel of dudes were totally trashing the CFL.  They were basically saying that the CFL wasn't good enough for Toronto, because they get teams like the Yankees and Lakers coming through, so why would they watch the "Saskatchewan Roughriders" - one of the only times I actually felt some sort of anger about hearing the Riders disparaged, and that was when I realized I despise Toronto ******-bags even more than combine jockeys, I guess.  I realize that it was a Rogers TV station and Rogers sucks but that was just ridiculous.  Sports guys trashing the CFL, in Canada.  ******-baggery to the extreme, but soooooo  Toronto (sorry Bluto, just too much experience with that "we're better than everyone else" attitude I've seen far too much from Torontonians).

Edited November 22, 2017 by kelownabomberfan

[Noeller]

8 minutes ago, kelownabomberfan said:

I was watching that show on Sportsnet with that weird guy that wears sunglasses (McKown or something is his name I think) and he and his panel of dudes were totally trashing the CFL.  They were basically saying that the CFL wasn't good enough for Toronto, because they get teams like the Yankees and Lakers coming through, so why would they watch the "Saskatchewan Roughriders" - one of the only times I actually felt some sort of anger about hearing the Riders disparaged, and that was when I realized I despise Toronto ******-bags even more than combine jockeys, I guess.  I realize that it was a Rogers TV station and Rogers sucks but that was just ridiculous.  Sports guys trashing the CFL, in Canada.  ******-baggery to the extreme, but soooooo  Toronto (sorry Bluto, just too much experience with that "we're better than everyone else" attitude I've seen far too much from Torontonians).

I remember vividly the week of Grey Cup 2007, which was in Toronto, so they were supposed to be hyping it up on McCown's show (Primetime Sports) and I believe it was Stephen Brunt that was talking about how great the week was going to be....Riders vs Bombers....2 of the best markets in the league...would be a lot of old school, blue collar fun. McCown was showing the most disdain ever for the CFL in general, and the fact that it was two teams from the hinterland that would be in the game. That's the first time it REALLY struck me that the rest of Canada just isn't like the Prairies in terms of love for CFL....

[bluto]

26 minutes ago, kelownabomberfan said:

I was watching that show on Sportsnet with that weird guy that wears sunglasses (McKown or something is his name I think) and he and his panel of dudes were totally trashing the CFL.  They were basically saying that the CFL wasn't good enough for Toronto, because they get teams like the Yankees and Lakers coming through, so why would they watch the "Saskatchewan Roughriders" - one of the only times I actually felt some sort of anger about hearing the Riders disparaged, and that was when I realized I despise Toronto ******-bags even more than combine jockeys, I guess.  I realize that it was a Rogers TV station and Rogers sucks but that was just ridiculous.  Sports guys trashing the CFL, in Canada.  ******-baggery to the extreme, but soooooo  Toronto (sorry Bluto, just too much experience with that "we're better than everyone else" attitude I've seen far too much from Torontonians).

I get it.

But that's the power of a media conglom actively trying to keep people away from the Argos. And that's just one aspect of it.

I also have an "I'm better than everyone else" attitude... it just doesn't have anything to do with the city by the lake.

[bearpants]

20 hours ago, bluto said:

 ii) thank Flutie the Leafs didn't play last night.

...

This is the problem in a nutshell. You can't market to them because it costs too much. You can't make it any easier to get to and from the games. You can't lower your concession prices for various reasons. You can't give them free parking. You can't target the people who live closer because they don't know you. 

 

Thank Flutie!... that made me laugh 

Do you think the Argos would be better served playing in a suburb rather than downtown Toronto?

[Fan Boy]

I was hoping the new ownership of the Argos would make a difference. Maybe there will be some progress, it hasn't been long.  My understanding is that the Argos would be under the MLSE umbrella if it wasn't for the hard ass Rogers people. I don't understand this thinking at all. Cable companies have to know that sports is the only thing that keeps a lot of people subscribed to cable. Netflix and all the wannabe's have really good content.  Rogers is not acting in their own best interest. I don't think hope is lost. If you can make MLS exciting there has to be a way of reviving interest in the Argos.

[blue_gold_84]

3 hours ago, Noeller said:

I remember vividly the week of Grey Cup 2007, which was in Toronto, so they were supposed to be hyping it up on McCown's show (Primetime Sports) and I believe it was Stephen Brunt that was talking about how great the week was going to be....Riders vs Bombers....2 of the best markets in the league...would be a lot of old school, blue collar fun. McCown was showing the most disdain ever for the CFL in general, and the fact that it was two teams from the hinterland that would be in the game. That's the first time it REALLY struck me that the rest of Canada just isn't like the Prairies in terms of love for CFL....

No question the Canadian Prairies are the heart of the league. Rain or shine, blistering heat or frigid cold, we love our football here.

Vancouver seemed to love the Lions until recently. I don't know what happened with attendance at Lions games. Although, attendance with the Canucks has struggled lately, too. So, maybe there's a larger issue at play, such as the insanely high cost of living there. Hamilton and Ottawa seem to be passionate about their respective teams, which is great to see. Both also get a lot of love from their local media, too. In the case of Ottawa, I'm glad to see how well things have gone there. A CFL without the nation's capital just isn't right, IMO. Montreal also seems to have a fair share of passionate fans and solid media coverage, but attendance has understandably dwindled recently due to the team's on-field struggles.

Toronto is seemingly in a category all its own, though. The fact that media members there go out of their way to trash the league - and apparently enjoy doing so - is really shitty to see. Why not embrace the CFL and the Canadian game...? Not to mention support and get behind the oldest and easily one of the most storied football teams on Earth. That should be a source of pride for Torontonians.

Edited November 22, 2017 by blue_gold_84
proofreading fail

[bluto]

1 hour ago, bearpants said:

Thank Flutie!... that made me laugh 

Do you think the Argos would be better served playing in a suburb rather than downtown Toronto?

His holy mullet be praised.

Idk about the burbs being better for attendance... maybe? If you chose one direction and put it there (like, North probably because if you went East or West you'd be de facto losing every fan from the other side of the GTA) and built a strong local following... I could see it working... but then it wouldn't feel like the Argos. I love sitting outside down by the lake and seeing the glass skyscrapers and concrete canyons and the CN all lit up. I think that for Bay Street's sake, it has to remain a "Toronto" team regardless of consequences.

 

1 hour ago, blue_gold_84 said:

Toronto is seemingly in a category all its own, though. The fact that media members there go out of their way to trash the league - and apparently enjoy doing - is really shitty to see. Why not embrace the CFL and the Canadian game...? Not to mention support and get behind one the oldest and easily one of the most storied football teams on Earth. That should be a source of pride for Torontonians.

The oldest.

Pulling together since 1873. And yes, we true Double-Blue through and through types are justifiably proud of that and our history.

Edited November 22, 2017 by bluto
feelin' a bit o' colour

[blue_gold_84]

20 minutes ago, bluto said:

The oldest.

Pulling together since 1873. And yes, we true Double-Blue through and through types are justifiably proud of that and our history.

Dammit, that's what I meant. I really gotta learn to proofread my longer posts.

And you should be proud of that history. It's pretty damned marvelous. It'd be awesome to see the organization do something grand for its 150th. It's just around the corner!

[HardCoreBlue]

16 hours ago, Zontar said:

S. Ontario tv numbers are the main reason there,s even still a league.

Challenge isnt to invent interest in people, it already exists. Challenge is to make attending a live game fun and comfortable and fashionable again

Yes the interest is there, however the NFL sure interests/consumes my 13 year football playing son over the CFL. I tried to brainwash him early (once he came out of the womb) with the Bombers /CFL but he gradually lost interest. Something sure draws his interest to the NFL, whether it's watching the NFL/College games, following his Eagles,  playing the videogames, being impressed with the talent level etc.

It would be nice to continue to work on that age demographic to not only make attending a  CFL game fashionable, but making the CFL fashionable for the younger generation to follow. 

I know I'm missing tons of complexities when I say this and we've talked about this over the years on this board but making a sophisticated top level CFL video game would be a start to really hook a larger following of younger football enthusiasts. I  feel some underestimate the impact this would have, just my feeling only supported by how  it has really engaged my son with the NFL (knowing alot of players, wanting to buy NFL merchandise, wanting to watch a live Eagle game , giving him specific goals of developing himself as a football player etc ).

[kelownabomberfan]

13 hours ago, bluto said:

I get it.

But that's the power of a media conglom actively trying to keep people away from the Argos. And that's just one aspect of it.

I also have an "I'm better than everyone else" attitude... it just doesn't have anything to do with the city by the lake.

All right, I'll give you that.  I shouldn't tar all of Toronto with the McCown *****-bag brush.  Everyone - if you are ever in Toronto, make an effort to meet Bluto.  He's one of the guys that makes the CFL great all across Canada.  

Edited November 23, 2017 by kelownabomberfan

[SPuDS]

On 11/21/2017 at 6:32 PM, Rich said:

Not sure why you want to harp on Bluto so hard about this.  As far as fans from other teams posting here, Bluto has always been one of the better ones and any back and forth has been IMO friendly banter on his part.

And as far as support of the Argos go, why criticize Bluto about it when he is a Torontonian who actually supports the team.

I have no time for trolls and people who come here for that sole purpose, but this board could be a better place if there was more commentary and opinions from fans of other teams.  Their perspective can be interesting at times.

I concur..  Bluto, while I have butted heads with him on occasion, has been one of the best examples of what I think a rival fan is.. comes here and doesn't take cheap shots, gets involved in meaningful discussions and actually puts in worthwhile posts and comments.  I wish we had more rival fans like him to be honest.