Noeller Posted December 7, 2017 Report Posted December 7, 2017 Love ya Booch, but curious if was Taman GM when you tried out....? Floyd 1
Booch Posted December 7, 2017 Report Posted December 7, 2017 12 minutes ago, Floyd said: so... no actual source other than you think you remember? and then back to Taman bashing when he helped build two gc worthy teams... What are you referring to? SPuDS 1
Booch Posted December 7, 2017 Report Posted December 7, 2017 11 minutes ago, Noeller said: Love ya Booch, but curious if was Taman GM when you tried out....? nope.. Noeller and SPuDS 2
Booch Posted December 7, 2017 Report Posted December 7, 2017 10 minutes ago, Booch said: nope.. Dealt with Cal Murphy in 1993. Tho like I mentioned I think previously in a different thread that at that time I wasn't able to pass a physical anymore and wasn't insurable, so basically had no hope anymore Noeller and SPuDS 2
WBBFanWest Posted December 7, 2017 Report Posted December 7, 2017 39 minutes ago, Floyd said: so... no actual source other than you think you remember? and then back to Taman bashing when he helped build two gc worthy teams... He built two GC worthy teams that then completely dissolved afterward because what he does is simply not sustainable. He's been out of the league for a while now, he's been hinting in the press that he's ready to come back, and no one has hired him in any capacity whatsoever. Might say something about the general opinion of his "building "abilities. blue_gold_84, SPuDS, BigBlueFanatic and 1 other 4
rebusrankin Posted December 7, 2017 Report Posted December 7, 2017 It was reported in the media that Taman backloaded many deals with the Bombers in 2008 which led to cap issues in 2009. Same thing with the Riders in 2014. Goalie, blue_gold_84 and SPuDS 2 1
blue_gold_84 Posted December 7, 2017 Report Posted December 7, 2017 15 minutes ago, WBBFanWest said: He built two GC worthy teams that then completely dissolved afterward because what he does is simply not sustainable. He's been out of the league for a while now, he's been hinting in the press that he's ready to come back, and no one has hired him in any capacity whatsoever. Might say something about the general opinion of his "building "abilities. This. He knew how to build a flash in the plan team, but nothing sustainable from a continuity standpoint. We saw that here a decade ago and then again more recently with the Riders. The only difference there was the starting QB didn't get his arm broken in the Division Final. SPuDS and Goalie 1 1
SPuDS Posted December 7, 2017 Report Posted December 7, 2017 1 hour ago, Floyd said: so... no actual source other than you think you remember? and then back to Taman bashing when he helped build two gc worthy teams... you did read where he said fit everything into a 1-2 year window... so sacrificed long term success for potential gains now.. pop quiz. which method of general managing do you think works best. taman's fire sale of canadian talent and picks for a win now mentality or Walters build from the ground up and work towards said a win now mentality.. I like option B personally.
Floyd Posted December 7, 2017 Report Posted December 7, 2017 1 minute ago, SPuDS said: you did read where he said fit everything into a 1-2 year window... so sacrificed long term success for potential gains now.. pop quiz. which method of general managing do you think works best. taman's fire sale of canadian talent and picks for a win now mentality or Walters build from the ground up and work towards said a win now mentality.. I like option B personally. A. Taman would have been lynched if he let Milt walk... there was lots of backloading going on in the league at that time B. I like Walters but I think its hard to do a fair comparison - Cdn talent was kind of crappy in the early 2000s - not many teams would ever think of playing MORE Cdns than the ratio required... but many do now. I think Taman was unable to change as the league evolved. Besides, our Cdn talent wasn't too bad when he left - it was Mike Kelly/Joe Mack that really decimated it... Tamans weakness was always import DBs - right now, Walters weakness is receivers and MLB... In the end, Taman has a GC ring and Walters doesn't... yet. SPuDS 1
rebusrankin Posted December 7, 2017 Report Posted December 7, 2017 44 minutes ago, Floyd said: A. Taman would have been lynched if he let Milt walk... there was lots of backloading going on in the league at that time B. I like Walters but I think its hard to do a fair comparison - Cdn talent was kind of crappy in the early 2000s - not many teams would ever think of playing MORE Cdns than the ratio required... but many do now. I think Taman was unable to change as the league evolved. Besides, our Cdn talent wasn't too bad when he left - it was Mike Kelly/Joe Mack that really decimated it... Tamans weakness was always import DBs - right now, Walters weakness is receivers and MLB... In the end, Taman has a GC ring and Walters doesn't... yet. Neil McKinley as a starting MLB. Geoff Drover and Marcus Howell converted from WR to DB. You really want to argue that he did a good job with NI talent. Went from 2001 Bruce to 2008 Romby without finding an import WR. Struggled for years to find a book end DT to go with Brown. Never found a QB. Fact is Taman was an average to below average GM. SPuDS and Mark F 2
johnzo Posted December 7, 2017 Report Posted December 7, 2017 June Jones doubles down on Johnny Football: https://www.tsn.ca/jones-manziel-would-be-best-player-to-ever-play-up-here-1.937424 Mark F and blue_gold_84 2
Noeller Posted December 7, 2017 Report Posted December 7, 2017 Just now, johnzo said: June Jones doubles down on Johnny Football: https://www.tsn.ca/jones-manziel-would-be-best-player-to-ever-play-up-here-1.937424 Saw this earlier... Torn between laughing and being really angry... SPuDS and Tracker 2
Atomic Posted December 7, 2017 Report Posted December 7, 2017 5 minutes ago, rebusrankin said: Neil McKinley as a starting MLB. Geoff Drover and Marcus Howell converted from WR to DB. You really want to argue that he did a good job with NI talent. Went from 2001 Bruce to 2008 Romby without finding an import WR. Struggled for years to find a book end DT to go with Brown. Never found a QB. Fact is Taman was an average to below average GM. Neil McKinley was never a starting MLB.... he may have started a game or two due to injury but I'm not even sure that ever happened. I know there was the Lumsden game where McKinley got destroyed repeatedly but I can't remember if he started it or just came in after someone got hurt. Either way... not a starter.
Booch Posted December 7, 2017 Report Posted December 7, 2017 53 minutes ago, Floyd said: A. Taman would have been lynched if he let Milt walk... there was lots of backloading going on in the league at that time B. I like Walters but I think its hard to do a fair comparison - Cdn talent was kind of crappy in the early 2000s - not many teams would ever think of playing MORE Cdns than the ratio required... but many do now. I think Taman was unable to change as the league evolved. Besides, our Cdn talent wasn't too bad when he left - it was Mike Kelly/Joe Mack that really decimated it... Tamans weakness was always import DBs - right now, Walters weakness is receivers and MLB... In the end, Taman has a GC ring and Walters doesn't... yet. He didn't need to backload Milt...He had to, mainly because he was already caught in that vicious circle. There always some backload going on in SMS systems but not to that extent, and even so...if everyone else is running off a cliff are you going to as well?..I know for a fact from players how he operated and how many guys walked for less money because we couldn't pay them in the actual year they played..a small up front bonus and paltry salary with the carrot of a nice bonus the winter after the season ended didn't sit well...especially with the notion you could get dumped before the bonus came into effect Canadian talent is always there, just more escapes down south now, but regardless you still had to dress X amount of Canadians and compacting era's there was probably more Canadian talent in the CFL then as opposed to now (see more go to NFL now comment above) just we had none because 1) Taman traded away most of our high round picks...continually and 2) we only were able to land aging/marginal Canadians for the most part via free-agency as we were in cap hell (see back loaded contracts) and 3) bulk of our Canadians came as cuts from other teams. Mike Kelly's demise was his arrogance of turfing Glenn and having no real replacement..If he had Glenn year one I bet we were a .500 or above team. And sorry..Taman's weakness was he had no contacts and no real way to bird dog talent...most of the Talent that actually made a difference was referrals from players...and in a few instances their dad's or guys actually calling the Bombers...another fact that I can claim as a fact. SPuDS 1
Goalie Posted December 7, 2017 Report Posted December 7, 2017 Glen Johnson has retired. SPuDS, Mark F, Blueandgold and 3 others 4 2
Floyd Posted December 7, 2017 Report Posted December 7, 2017 22 minutes ago, rebusrankin said: Neil McKinley as a starting MLB. Geoff Drover and Marcus Howell converted from WR to DB. You really want to argue that he did a good job with NI talent. Went from 2001 Bruce to 2008 Romby without finding an import WR. Struggled for years to find a book end DT to go with Brown. Never found a QB. Fact is Taman was an average to below average GM. Barron Simpson and lobendahn were pretty good MLB... bryant was very good and so was Derek Armstrong and ajIII huge insult to Gavin walls and Jerome Haywood too i think Logan, franklin, brown, hargs, labatte, gauthier is not bad... tamans prob was the 7th NI - Mckinley equals hurl... say what you want now but we all know taman has two gc rings if Glenn doesn't break his arm
JCon Posted December 7, 2017 Report Posted December 7, 2017 9 minutes ago, Goalie said: Glen Johnson has retired. Call CNIB to recruit someone new. Mark F, Floyd and Goalie 2 1
Mr Dee Posted December 7, 2017 Report Posted December 7, 2017 1 hour ago, johnzo said: June Jones doubles down on Johnny Football: https://www.tsn.ca/jones-manziel-would-be-best-player-to-ever-play-up-here-1.937424 ??What’s with these guys named Jones ? That’s a pretty bold statement...and far-fetched? -Ticats analyst Mike Morreale says he believes Johnny Manziel will sign with the team relatively soon (TSN 1150). More tidbits... -For the BC Lions, who have 22 pending free agents, the biggest focus is going to be on the offensive line, where six players are slated for free agency (Jamie Nye, CFL.ca). -With their entire starting defensive backfield up for free agency, the Stampeders have their work cut out for them this off-season (Jamie Nye, CFL.ca). -National depth continues to be a strength for Kyle Walters, who has a league-low five Canadians pending free agency on Feb. 13 (Jamie Nye, CFL.ca). blue_gold_84, BigBlueFanatic, JCon and 2 others 5
rebusrankin Posted December 7, 2017 Report Posted December 7, 2017 39 minutes ago, Floyd said: Barron Simpson and lobendahn were pretty good MLB... bryant was very good and so was Derek Armstrong and ajIII huge insult to Gavin walls and Jerome Haywood too i think Logan, franklin, brown, hargs, labatte, gauthier is not bad... tamans prob was the 7th NI - Mckinley equals hurl... say what you want now but we all know taman has two gc rings if Glenn doesn't break his arm Armstrong and Edwards were free agents. He found Johnson/Simon and Bruce between 99 and 2001 and then never scouted and brought in a quality receiver until he found Bryant in 08. So we had issues at receiver outside of Milt from 03 until he landed Armstrong as a free agent mid way through 06. My point being receiver was an issue. Walls was a DE not a DT. Haywood wasn't that good. My point was that Taman struggled to find a guy to go with Brown for years. Hargs was mediocre and the reality was that our Canadian talent was an issue the entire time Taman was here, in part because as Booch says he traded our picks away and had no contacts as a scout. Reality is that he has 1 ring for a team he didn't build.
Floyd Posted December 7, 2017 Report Posted December 7, 2017 2 hours ago, rebusrankin said: Armstrong and Edwards were free agents. He found Johnson/Simon and Bruce between 99 and 2001 and then never scouted and brought in a quality receiver until he found Bryant in 08. So we had issues at receiver outside of Milt from 03 until he landed Armstrong as a free agent mid way through 06. My point being receiver was an issue. Walls was a DE not a DT. Haywood wasn't that good. My point was that Taman struggled to find a guy to go with Brown for years. Hargs was mediocre and the reality was that our Canadian talent was an issue the entire time Taman was here, in part because as Booch says he traded our picks away and had no contacts as a scout. Reality is that he has 1 ring for a team he didn't build. Now hold Walters up to those same ridiculous standards... and Haywood was damn good hargs far better than Coates... I just don't remember anyone freaking out about the bombers receivers from 2000-2008... why pretend it was a problem SPuDS 1
rebusrankin Posted December 8, 2017 Report Posted December 8, 2017 I've posted many times about Walters shortcomings in scouting. I'd easily argue Hargreaves was not as good as Coates but both Kolhert and JFG were better. Both have seasons that surpass Hargreaves best year of 290 yards receiving. If you notice I mentioned the receivers between 2003 and mid 2006 which is after Simon, Albert Johnson and Bruce were gone and we lacked guys to play with Milt. No question it got better after Taman won a bidding war to get Armstrong after his return from the NFL and then landed Edwards the following year. My point was that between scouting and bringing in Bruce in 2001, it was 2008 and Romby before he found another guy. Go back and read the papers and you'll find plenty of people mentioning Taman's weaknesses in scouting and disregard for Canadian talent. Did he have some good seasons? Sure. Did he have some bad ones? Yep. Did he leave us some real weaknesses which Kelly compounded? Absolutely. SPuDS 1
Atomic Posted December 8, 2017 Report Posted December 8, 2017 (edited) Taman didn't really become the full GM until 2004 I believe. That year the receivers were Stegall-Peterson-Gordon-Stokes-Stoddard. And some others. So that's the baseline he is working with. 2004: Stegall-Peterson-Gordon-Stokes-Stoddard 2005: Stegall-Peterson-Brazzell-Stokes-Stoddard 2006: Stegall-Brazzell-Andrae Thurman-Quentin McCord-Stoddard. But Arjei Franklin was also drafted this year and Armstrong came back late. 2007: Stegall-Armstrong-Edwards-Stoddard/Franklin/O'Neill Wilson. 2008: Stegall-Armstrong-Edwards-Bryant-Franklin. They definitely got a lot better between 2004 and 2008... 2005 in particular was painful, but by 2006 it was decent, and then all-star level from 2007-08. 2009: Edwards-Bowman-Bryant/Titus Ryan/Otis Amey/Dudley Guice Jr-Brock Ralph. Lol. Edited December 8, 2017 by Atomic added 2009 for laughs
Blueandgold Posted December 8, 2017 Report Posted December 8, 2017 4 hours ago, Goalie said: Glen Johnson has retired. News this important deserves to be its own thread. Atomic and rebusrankin 2
Blueandgold Posted December 8, 2017 Report Posted December 8, 2017 The Bombers receivers sans were horrible from 2003-2004 when Bobby G started to decline until Armstrong was signed in 2006. That easily one of the teams biggest flaws back then, along with that putrid secondary.
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