Bomber Moves 2018

[Floyd]

32 minutes ago, Booch said:

exactly...Jones on the other hand had to do it now as they were severely over...and bet still are and he also is not a very good SMS manager and forcasting and looking forward as to where his money is...will be...and will be coming off...he seems almost blind in that regard

Muamba will want a big signing bonus - probably $60k upfront...  I doubt that many of these vets don't have off-season bonuses negotiated as well though

[Taynted_Fayth]

Just now, Floyd said:

Muamba will want a big signing bonus - probably $60k upfront...  I doubt that many of these vets don't have off-season bonuses negotiated as well though

The riders already paid him $35K in Jan i think that may play into teams being reluctant on his signing bonus, might even be the hold up. I'm sure the base will be pretty good in his favor but the fact he's already gotten a paycheque so far this offseason might be working against him 

[kelownabomberfan]

59 minutes ago, Bigblue204 said:

 Sign em and figure it out later!

I believe this is on the wall in Montreal's main office.

[MC]

12 minutes ago, Taynted_Fayth said:

The riders already paid him $35K in Jan i think that may play into teams being reluctant on his signing bonus, might even be the hold up. I'm sure the base will be pretty good in his favor but the fact he's already gotten a paycheque so far this offseason might be working against him 

I don't understand this thinking at all.  Does your employer pay you less because you got paid money by someone else three months ago?  So, if I can find a landscaper who got paid $20K for a small job two weeks ago, then I know he will do my whole yard for $200 now.  Hey if he got overpaid enough, he might even landscape my whole yard and pay me $200!

[MC]

The Bombers should go into camp with their expected lineup well under the cap.  Cutting for salary at the end of camp just means that you wasted the development and evaluation time in the preseason on guys you are now cutting.  And you need to be under the cap early in the year so you can spend on contingencies throughout the season - you are going to need it. 

You better be expecting to find younger, more athletic and cheaper guys in camp every year and developing them to take roles when you dump the veterans or let them go to free agency next year.

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

1 hour ago, Booch said:

Thing is..we don't have to release anyone to make room now anyway....salaries don't count till the season starts...let everyone battle in camp...then determine where or if a new young up and comer has pushed a vet out the door

GTFO of here with your logic and common sense- there is no place for that on these boards!

[Tracker]

2 hours ago, blue_gold_84 said:

That's a shitload of money.

For a non-dominant player, yes.

[mbrg]

9 minutes ago, MC said:

I don't understand this thinking at all.  Does your employer pay you less because you got paid money by someone else three months ago?  So, if I can find a landscaper who got paid $20K for a small job two weeks ago, then I know he will do my whole yard for $200 now.  Hey if he got overpaid enough, he might even landscape my whole yard and pay me $200!

If I'm Muamba's agent and the Bombers serve that nonsense up, I'd say if that's what you think is happening then you can also take my client's previous contract as is.  One year deal for the full remaining amount (reportedly $185,000) and he gets to walk next February.

 

If I'm the Bombers, I'm explaining how his unusual situation has left the team in a position where they aren't able to offer him as much money as they would otherwise be willing to, as they made other ratio moves in free agency before Muamba became available.  That they can increase his salary in year 2 once they are able to have the offseason to tinker with their roster, but that the plan for this year's roster was already set into motion.  And that every other team who is interested in his services is in a similar predicament and unlikely to find more money for year 1.

And then I'd jokingly mention that hopefully some of the money he got from the Riders will help make the contract we're offering more palatable.  And then we'd all have a laugh because obviously I'm joking, right?  But we'd all know I really wasn't.

And that way hopefully the Bombers can sign a multi-year deal with Muamba without having to hit the total combined number he was expected to make with the Riders this year.

[WBBFanWest]

10 minutes ago, mbrg said:

If I'm Muamba's agent and the Bombers serve that nonsense up, I'd say if that's what you think is happening then you can also take my client's previous contract as is.  One year deal for the full remaining amount (reportedly $185,000) and he gets to walk next February.

 

If I'm the Bombers, I'm explaining how his unusual situation has left the team in a position where they aren't able to offer him as much money as they would otherwise be willing to, as they made other ratio moves in free agency before Muamba became available.  That they can increase his salary in year 2 once they are able to have the offseason to tinker with their roster, but that the plan for this year's roster was already set into motion.  And that every other team who is interested in his services is in a similar predicament and unlikely to find more money for year 1.

And then I'd jokingly mention that hopefully some of the money he got from the Riders will help make the contract we're offering more palatable.  And then we'd all have a laugh because obviously I'm joking, right?  But we'd all know I really wasn't.

And that way hopefully the Bombers can sign a multi-year deal with Muamba without having to hit the total combined number he was expected to make with the Riders this year.

There is no contract once he's released.  He can try and propose the former contract's terms but the simple argument to counter that is "If the Riders didn't think you were worth keeping with that contract, why would we?"  The best I would do is offer him a fair contract and then offer to throw in paid storage for his tour bus until February of next year.

[mbrg]

1 hour ago, WBBFanWest said:

There is no contract once he's released.  He can try and propose the former contract's terms but the simple argument to counter that is "If the Riders didn't think you were worth keeping with that contract, why would we?"  The best I would do is offer him a fair contract and then offer to throw in paid storage for his tour bus until February of next year.

Of course there's no contract.

That's why we have no business pointing to the money he's already received this year:

2 hours ago, Taynted_Fayth said:

The riders already paid him $35K in Jan i think that may play into teams being reluctant on his signing bonus, might even be the hold up

 

[Taynted_Fayth]

It might be nonsense,  but I've come to believe the reason for signing bonuses is to put money in the pocket of said player immediately as an act of goodwill from the club,  usually because the player needs the money immediately vs waiting out till all the game cheques have been collected. I've come to also believe this is why a lot of players restructure their contracts along the way where they can get lump sum payments that offseason but either commit extra years or reneg to a slight over/under amount to their current deal, as the club is then able to use up remaining cap space from that year before heading into the next. 

If this does apply then the $35K muamba got certainly would play a factor as he's already received a significant amount of money and barely over a month ago so the need for more immediately is either telling me the guy lives well beyond his means or is doing some bad stuff on his own time which would be a red flag for me

[WBBFanWest]

1 hour ago, mbrg said:

Of course there's no contract.

That's why we have no business pointing to the money he's already received this year:

 

Of course we can point to it.  He's free to disagree.

[wbbfan]

6 hours ago, Throw Long Bannatyne said:

How the Bombers can create cap space for Henoc Muamba

http://3downnation.com/2018/03/06/how-the-bombers-can-create-cap-space-for-henoc-muamba/

 

The only way I can see them cutting Ogo is if one of the new DE's they bring to camp turns out to be a stud like Jeffcoat.

 

5 hours ago, Goalie said:

Craig Roh is a pretty good DL. 

Ogo goes if Henoc signs. Id cut Ogo today if it means CDN MLB. 

Hey... Who is this guy 

https://www.bluebombers.com/players/chris-casher/

Potential and young. 

Id rahter cut roh and draft more futures guys (like gray, FMB etc)

We have had a few very high potential DEs who amounted to nothing up here. 2 years ago that guy from bama for instance.  Even shayon green showed well in camp, and has some great measurables.  

4 hours ago, blue_gold_84 said:

That's a shitload of money.

In his first 2 years with the argos (before spending 2 years down south) He put up a combined 23 sacks, 2 pics 5 forced fumbles and 55 tackles. If it wasnt for his calgary game, Id be on board with jettisoning him. But he showed that next level dominance. I think with less rotation / sitting and the rust fully shaken off He is too good to give up on. Not if we can help it. The way we defend the pass we need all the pass rush we can get. 

[Jpan85]

33 minutes ago, Taynted_Fayth said:

It might be nonsense,  but I've come to believe the reason for signing bonuses is to put money in the pocket of said player immediately as an act of goodwill from the club,  usually because the player needs the money immediately vs waiting out till all the game cheques have been collected. I've come to also believe this is why a lot of players restructure their contracts along the way where they can get lump sum payments that offseason but either commit extra years or reneg to a slight over/under amount to their current deal, as the club is then able to use up remaining cap space from that year before heading into the next. 

If this does apply then the $35K muamba got certainly would play a factor as he's already received a significant amount of money and barely over a month ago so the need for more immediately is either telling me the guy lives well beyond his means or is doing some bad stuff on his own time which would be a red flag for me

Off-season bonuses are taxed at lower rate that's why players want them.

[blueingreenland]

I'm a little nervous with all this talk about the Bombers making cap room for Muamba...

[Noeller]

I have zero interest in cutting Ogopogo....he started out slow, as he shook off rust and battled back from injury, but he finished the season like a demon. Was legitimately curious to see what he and JJ could do together with a full season. Hoping they still get that chance...

[blue_gold_84]

1 hour ago, wbbfan said:

In his first 2 years with the argos (before spending 2 years down south) He put up a combined 23 sacks, 2 pics 5 forced fumbles and 55 tackles. If it wasnt for his calgary game, Id be on board with jettisoning him. But he showed that next level dominance. I think with less rotation / sitting and the rust fully shaken off He is too good to give up on. Not if we can help it. The way we defend the pass we need all the pass rush we can get. 

I'd hate to see him get released and hope it doesn't come to that in order to sign Muamba. I still didn't expect him to be making as much as Dunk said, though.

What I'd like to know is where is all the money that was supposedly ear-marked for Westerman...?

[wbbfan]

2 minutes ago, blue_gold_84 said:

I'd hate to see him get released and hope it doesn't come to that in order to sign Muamba. I still didn't expect him to be making as much as Dunk said, though.

What I'd like to know is where is all the money that was supposedly ear-marked for Westerman...?

Its hard to say where our finances are exactly right now. I feel like we have saved money with the free agency changes, but I might be wrong. If one thing is for sure, the team is very fiscally conservative, I dont think they will go deep into the cap to the point we cant fly in the air lift rookies when the PR expands. I feel like we could have afforded bear woods last year at a similar expense and didnt give much consideration to it. If henoc was an imp, I dont think hed be getting soo much consideration. 

[blue_gold_84]

1 minute ago, wbbfan said:

Its hard to say where our finances are exactly right now. I feel like we have saved money with the free agency changes, but I might be wrong. If one thing is for sure, the team is very fiscally conservative, I dont think they will go deep into the cap to the point we cant fly in the air lift rookies when the PR expands. I feel like we could have afforded bear woods last year at a similar expense and didnt give much consideration to it. If henoc was an imp, I dont think hed be getting soo much consideration. 

Oh, without a doubt. His passport is sure a quality feature.

[wbbfan]

Just now, blue_gold_84 said:

Oh, without a doubt. His passport is sure a quality feature.

He is an excellent player, but yeah the pass port is the deal maker. We could really use one more starting ni, and hes a play maker at the right position. 

If we do miss out, Ill be dissapointed. But If we end up starting a NI db and start JSK at mac ill be good with that. Im a big fan of our young ni back ups on D.  And of JSK. 

[Eternal optimist]

6 hours ago, kelownabomberfan said:

I believe this is on the wall in Montreal's main office.

I think it's actually "Signer em et le comprendre plus ****!"

4 hours ago, mbrg said:

Of course there's no contract.

That's why we have no business pointing to the money he's already received this year:

 

If at your job you received say, 3 months salary from your employer then were let go and you worked in a very competitive field, would you be in a hurry to go out and  take the first job offer you could find? It's the off-season, I know we're all impatient, but for all we know maybe Muamba is simply doing some soul-searching before putting ink to paper.

[GCn20]

13 hours ago, Jpan85 said:

Off-season bonuses are taxed at lower rate that's why players want them.

That's only true if you are an IMP. NATs get no such tax break unless they are living in the US as a dual citizen.  The purpose of the signing bonus for a NAT is for job security.  Once paid the signing bonus it makes a last minute change in direction by the club far less likely.  With no signing bonus a team can sign you to a big contract, and then decide in TC to go in a different direction and you're left searching for employment with everyone's cap space used up. I know that sounds unlikely but if it weren't for signing bonuses it would likely happen with far more regularity when someone comes out of the blue in camp and you have no dollars tied up in a high priced vet yet,

Edited March 7, 2018 by gcn11

[17to85]

15 hours ago, Jpan85 said:

Off-season bonuses are taxed at lower rate that's why players want them.

well that and it's some protection for the players in a league where there is no such thing as a guaranteed contract. Get a lump sum up front and even if the team decides to release you you've still got paid something rather than losing out on a bunch. 

[DR. CFL]

Signing bonuses are taxed at a low rate... and only for International players. 

[Mark F]

 Him being worth the wait aside, It's actually kind of humorous that Muamba hasn't figured out what to do.

At this point, what could he be unsure of?

 

Edited March 7, 2018 by Mark F