Vince McMahon considers move to bring back the XFL

[Atomic]

"Alliance of American Football"?  That really the best they could come up with?

[bearpants]

the marketing department is also a work in progress...

[mbrg]

1 hour ago, Atomic said:

"Alliance of American Football"?  That really the best they could come up with?

"Vince McMahon can kiss my AAF!!!" - Charlie Ebersol

[The Unknown Poster]

23 minutes ago, mbrg said:

"Vince McMahon can kiss my AAF!!!" - Charlie Ebersol

Its real interesting because Charlie Ebersol made the XFL documentary last year with Vince.  Vince and **** Ebersol are (were?) close.  I wonder how much Vince and Charlie talked about the mistakes of the XFL and what Vince thought would make it a success... Certainly, this new group didnt have a flashy presser to announce their "plan", they kept it quiet and went public when they had something major...a Network deal.  Vince has to be pretty irate today.

[Fan Boy]

I think real chairs will be broken instead of pretend chairs. Mr McMahon should be real angry.

[Mark F]

Starting a new league when interest in football is declining, might not be a great idea.

[Brandon]

If I'm Vince McMahon I invest in a new sport that anyone could play....

[The Unknown Poster]

23 hours ago, Mark F said:

Starting a new league when interest in football is declining, might not be a great idea.

I think they (Vince and Ebersol) think they can combat the reasons for the NFL's decline.  And ofcourse, their financial picture will be a lot different so their measure of success will be a lot lower.  I dont know how long Peter Thiel will be willing to lose money (Id like to know what CBS is paying them).  Vince has already said he's willing to go beyond his initial $100 million and doesnt want partners.  Vince has a lot of cash and is in his 70's so he might be willing to spend (and lose) a lot.

[MC]

23 hours ago, Mark F said:

Starting a new league when interest in football is declining, might not be a great idea.

This is an interesting belief, and one that gained traction last fall because the President likes saying it.  Not that anything has to be true in order for the public to believe it. 

Youth enrollment has declined in most areas of north America, but participation does not equal interest.  If it did, then the most popular sport in North America would be soccer with no other sport being close.  I wonder what received higher ratings last year between soccer and the MMA?  Not too many parents are signing their toddlers up to climb into the octagon (not sure that daycare is that rough).

The TV ratings for the NFL did drop slightly last year but attention over other electronic media did not.  Also, ratings for college football continue to improve.  The first two nights of the NFL draft will dominate the ratings regardless of what the NBA, MLB or NHL do.  ESPN had the most traffic on the day NFL free agency opened since the super bowl.

There is a huge appetite for football in the United States.  There will always be investors looking to take a piece.

[Mark F]

37 minutes ago, MC said:

The TV ratings for the NFL did drop slightly last year

Not going to look it up, but I've heard that it's dropped for several years, and that attendance is also dropping. ESPN is losing ground.

Young people aren't interested in a lot of things that older people like/d.

Times are changing. Maybe. I think.

 

[Brandon]

I don't know it's hard to say about Football in the States... claims that young people don't like the game seems a bit of an overstatement if you look at how insane College Football still is in the States.   

For myself I watch less NFL because I'm bombarded with so many different venues for entertainment that its impossible to watch it all?   Now days it's so easy to watch what you want whenever you want... it's not the same as back in the day when Sundays had nothing on except NFL Football and weird gospel preachers on during the afternoon...

[Jimmy Pop]

21 hours ago, MC said:

This is an interesting belief, and one that gained traction last fall because the President likes saying it.  Not that anything has to be true in order for the public to believe it. 

Youth enrollment has declined in most areas of north America, but participation does not equal interest.  If it did, then the most popular sport in North America would be soccer with no other sport being close.  I wonder what received higher ratings last year between soccer and the MMA?  Not too many parents are signing their toddlers up to climb into the octagon (not sure that daycare is that rough).

The TV ratings for the NFL did drop slightly last year but attention over other electronic media did not.  Also, ratings for college football continue to improve.  The first two nights of the NFL draft will dominate the ratings regardless of what the NBA, MLB or NHL do.  ESPN had the most traffic on the day NFL free agency opened since the super bowl.

There is a huge appetite for football in the United States.  There will always be investors looking to take a piece.

2017's worst-viewed UFC on Fox card drew 1.5M viewers.

MLS Cup drew 1.4M on the same network. 

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/soccer/mls-marks-new-attendance-record-while-tv-ratings-lag/article37014512/

https://www.mmamania.com/2018/1/28/16942782/ufc-on-fox-27-ratings-lowest-ratings-ever-on-big-fox

[WBBFanWest]

8 minutes ago, Jimmy Pop said:

2017's worst-viewed UFC on Fox card drew 1.5M viewers.

MLS Cup drew 1.4M on the same network. 

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/soccer/mls-marks-new-attendance-record-while-tv-ratings-lag/article37014512/

https://www.mmamania.com/2018/1/28/16942782/ufc-on-fox-27-ratings-lowest-ratings-ever-on-big-fox

What if they were to combine them?  I'd watch that.

[MC]

22 hours ago, Mark F said:

Not going to look it up, but I've heard that it's dropped for several years, and that attendance is also dropping. ESPN is losing ground.

Young people aren't interested in a lot of things that older people like/d.

Times are changing. Maybe. I think.

 

Times are changing, but not in the way that some talking heads would have you believe.  The number of people who will turn on the TV at noon on Sunday and watch the NFL game are fewer than in past years.  The number of people who watch that game have not necessarily decreased.  Some will watch parts of it on the Red Zone channel, others will watch it later on PVR, and others will stream parts of it.

[wbbfan]

On 3/21/2018 at 1:24 PM, Mark F said:

Starting a new league when interest in football is declining, might not be a great idea.

This is in part a good point. I think it needs to be clarified that its the NFL that is declining. Its of course not in any danger. But i feel the ncaa and hs levels are steady as she goes.  A start up league could have a better chance now then ever at carving out a living as a sub nfl level league. The nfl has lost market share, that means more is available. That said the chances of actually capitalizing on that  is exceedingly slim. 

The NFL is a financial institute. Its monetary entertainment.  The room for growth is in cultural institutes like the CFL. The amount of CFL you can sell to americans with out a team is pretty limited though. If they brought back some thing like the USFL, and planted it in  smaller US markets that dont have a chance at a NFL franchise they could build some thing. But getting the money, and tv deals with that is very hard. two fledgling start up leagues also pretty much ensures they will fail. 

On 3/23/2018 at 11:00 AM, Jimmy Pop said:

2017's worst-viewed UFC on Fox card drew 1.5M viewers.

MLS Cup drew 1.4M on the same network. 

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/soccer/mls-marks-new-attendance-record-while-tv-ratings-lag/article37014512/

https://www.mmamania.com/2018/1/28/16942782/ufc-on-fox-27-ratings-lowest-ratings-ever-on-big-fox

UFC on fox isnt a good measuring stick, especially last year. The ufc has done a worse and worse job of putting decent shows on for ufc on fox. The last year and a half has been worse yet compounded by the amount of money fights, championship/star turn over, and scandal. 

Soccer is here to stay, and gigantic with kids. But I think youd have a better chance of opening up two successful nfl alternative pro football leagues in the us then of getting soccer into the top 4 pro sports in the us. 

[Mark F]

I don't understand why arena football isn't more popular.

Games are fast paced, high offence,  good players. Nice passing, great catches. Local players.

probably inexpensive to attend.

Don't get it.

 

 

[SpeedFlex27]

18 minutes ago, Mark F said:

I don't understand why arena football isn't more popular.

Games are fast paced, high offence,  good players. Nice passing, great catches. Local players.

probably inexpensive to attend.

Don't get it.

 

 

I think that the business model is wrong.  Played in cities that were too big as teams got lost due to lack of coverage or no one cares. Having to compete with the NHL, NBA, MLB & NFL.  The rent for games played in 15-20,000 arenas is expensive. No national & local TV & radio deals as well as  lack of sponsors both local markets & national. Relying on ticket sales mostly. Brand is broken with so many teams folding... Other arena leagues doing better playing in smaller cities with smaller buildings.  Lots of reasons why the AFL is struggling.

Edited April 3, 2018 by SpeedFlex27

[TBURGESS]

It's like basketball. All offense. Went a couple of times and couldn't stand it.

[wbbfan]

20 hours ago, Mark F said:

I don't understand why arena football isn't more popular.

Games are fast paced, high offence,  good players. Nice passing, great catches. Local players.

probably inexpensive to attend.

Don't get it.

 

 

Speed and tburgess nailed it pretty well. people hate prevent defense. playing give up defense near the end of games to try and win is brutal. 

If they over hauled the games abit to make them less gimmicky offensive mashings, and focused on second tier cities and lower I bet theyd do a whole lot better. 

[SpeedFlex27]

Did the AFL fold?

[wbbfan]

10 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Did the AFL fold?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Arena_Football_League_season

Not yet, but it sounds like it could be very near. 17 stats are interesting. 3 of the 5 teams had a win % under .400. attendance average around 10k. They went from having AFL 2 a minor league system. To not running, and the minor league running. To in 2014 having 14 AFL teams, down to 5. 

[SpeedFlex27]

3 hours ago, wbbfan said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Arena_Football_League_season

Not yet, but it sounds like it could be very near. 17 stats are interesting. 3 of the 5 teams had a win % under .400. attendance average around 10k. They went from having AFL 2 a minor league system. To not running, and the minor league running. To in 2014 having 14 AFL teams, down to 5. 

Yet, I read they just signed a new 4 year CBA with the players DOUBLING salaries & increasing benefits. Like WTH? How can a league that is equivalent to the Walking Dead sign something like that & the Players Association not think it's a scam as the AFL won't be around to negotiate another one? 

[SpeedFlex27]

To think at one time there were people worried the AFL would steal our star players.  A few years ago the AFL didn't recognize that a Standard CFL contract was legal until they lost in court. They deserve whatever bad happens to them. 

[wbbfan]

2 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Yet, I read they just signed a new 4 year CBA with the players DOUBLING salaries & increasing benefits. Like WTH? How can a league that is equivalent to the Walking Dead sign something like that & the Players Association not think it's a scam as the AFL won't be around to negotiate another one? 

Well going from paying 4 peanuts to 8 is still paying peanuts. So thats part of it. But yeah they are struggling to keep the doors open with the previous cba this seems like the death knell of the AFL. Short of some thing extreme happening. The amount the afl paid when the AFL was strong and cflers went back n forth wasnt great. And for sub stars it was really bloody low. I have to think its only gotten worse. 

If the afl goes belly up I imagine some one some where will re start the concept. iirc bonjovi in philly has been a cornerstone of the AFL since it began. So maybe he does. 

2 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

To think at one time there were people worried the AFL would steal our star players.  A few years ago the AFL didn't recognize that a Standard CFL contract was legal until they lost in court. They deserve whatever bad happens to them. 

Yeah, a few guys going back n forth like robert gordon. But he especially kinda showed you just cant play that much football in one year and survive.  In general i didnt have much hate of the AFL, they had some crappy management for a while but they didn't pose a real threat and fledgling leagues generally up cycle talent that would other wise wash out. 

[SpeedFlex27]

4 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

Well going from paying 4 peanuts to 8 is still paying peanuts. So thats part of it. But yeah they are struggling to keep the doors open with the previous cba this seems like the death knell of the AFL. Short of some thing extreme happening. The amount the afl paid when the AFL was strong and cflers went back n forth wasnt great. And for sub stars it was really bloody low. I have to think its only gotten worse. 

If the afl goes belly up I imagine some one some where will re start the concept. iirc bonjovi in philly has been a cornerstone of the AFL since it began. So maybe he does. 

Yeah, a few guys going back n forth like robert gordon. But he especially kinda showed you just cant play that much football in one year and survive.  In general i didnt have much hate of the AFL, they had some crappy management for a while but they didn't pose a real threat and fledgling leagues generally up cycle talent that would other wise wash out. 

When they wouldn't recognize valid CFL contracts they lost me.