solving a QB

[Jpan85]

Jeff Hostetler. 

[TrueBlue]

14 hours ago, wbbfan said:

They had to dumb the system down further and further and work him up to those plays. He was that limited. 

Yeah I hope to find a heavy cache of games on YT again for winter rewatching.

Most of the time you dont see that much. most players/positions any way. If you are in a position where you need to take into consideration all the other teams players its generally a slower to react position like saftey. fast wide spread read leading to a fast reaction play is about as hard as it gets. And why Qbs get all the love/hate. 

Yeah its even more true in the nfl. Thats a big reason why they are soo heavy handed on prospects from none nfl style offenses. (even more so in the past) Some guys are real students of the game, guys who love to learn and improve. Peyton manning is a great example of this. Bruce arians has gone into great depth about his commitment, preparation and desire to learn. he tells one story about how as soon as manning was drafted, that night he wanted a copy of the play book to get started. They went to interview him, and it ended up being like a 3 hour meeting with him asking as many questions as they did. Where as ryan leaf blew off their work out, then wanted to do his own limited/easy open work out, and was out to party the night he was picked.  Thats a trait as rare as a phenomenal arm.  (the story is from his book the qb whisperer, a great read)

But once you have 6-8 years of high level experience doing some thing, changing is fantastically hard. Combine that with the type of personality a QB is fostered with / type the position attracts, and its good luck chuck. Jim harbaugh talks a lot about how hard/impossible it is to change most Qbs. That its more keeping them right rather then trying to get them right.  If any one wants I can dig up one of his (qb) coaching clinic videos. Bill walsh also talks about it in the score takes care of it self, and finding the winning edge. 

In baseball scouting they look for guys with 1-2 skills that are at or project to a MLB level, then work on adding 1-2 skills and polishing what they have. Ive heard it said a few times that at best if you work really hard and well on improving a weakness, you can improve it to be mediocre. But you cant turn a weakness into a strength.  As seen in several drafts, the more exposed to competition some one is, the less potential they have. Noob gains, are allways the biggest gains. 

Good info.  Just a personal suggestion from me:  Can you separate the titles of the books you refer to a little better so they are easier to identify?  (Eg. in bold, with capital letters, etc.)

Thanks.

[rebusrankin]

Bruce Arians book is called The QB Whisperer. Its a good read.

[Fan Boy]

On 20/12/2017 at 7:22 PM, mbrg said:

When defensive coordinators are the ones saying it, then it might be true.  I haven't heard any DC's saying that.

Jennings is young and hasn't been in the CFL for very long.  He's early on the learning curve.  In 2 more years he might be reading defences better and making smarter decisions.  Right now he's relying on his athletic gifts to compensate.  That's what the athletically gifted QBs do.  All of them.  Once they move further up the curve, they do it less.

He might learn.  He might not.  He might be given up on before he gets a chance.  I wouldn't necessarily say DB's winning some of those 40 yard jump-ball passes as meaning "DC's have figured him out".  They should win some of those jump balls.  It was getting ridiculously frustrating watching them lose every last one of them, and having Rod Black squeal like a schoolgirl as a result.  "CAN YOU BELIEVE THAT!!!??".  Yes Rod, I can.  It's football.  Receivers will catch the ball in the air, and jump up to do it.

I might have digressed.

I doubt any DC would say it anyway. That is like telling your poker opponent they always rub their chin when they bluff. 

[Fan Boy]

1 hour ago, Mark F said:

Earl Morall.... Dolphins backup to Bob Griese, took the team to the superbowl, I think Griese played in the superbowl and lost.

 N.Y. Giants qb took over for Phil Sims, and went very far, may have won the whole thing. forget name. oh yeah Frank Reich.

Case Keenum doing pretty well so far.

 

Did you actually remember Earl Morall?  Holy MF you would be old and not senile. 

[Mark F]

1 hour ago, Fan Boy said:

Did you actually remember Earl Morall? 

I remember Elmore crazy legs Hirsh.

used to see the Rams on the tube when I was a child in Vancouver B.C.

have to go have a nap now. all that typing you know.....

Edited December 22, 2017 by Mark F

[Mark F]

2 hours ago, Jpan85 said:

Jeff Hostetler. 

yeah, that's the guy, thanks.

[johnzo]

5 hours ago, Atomic said:

True but how many teams have really succeeded when their starter has gone down, whether the backup was getting reps or not?  If your starter is out for the season, you're not winning the championship, regardless of the league.  I can't recall any backup QB ever winning a Grey Cup or Super Bowl but maybe someone can school me on that.

yeah, it hasn't happened recently, but back in the day when teams would regularly carry two good quarterbacks, it did happen.

Damon Allen didn't start his first Grey Cup victory, in 1987.  Dunigan started, but got hurt.

Danny McManus didn't start the West Final or the Grey Cup in 1994, but he won both those games.  Kent Austin was either hurt or ineffective, I can't remember which.

The 2005 Esks  won out with a tandem.  Ray wasn't injured but he struggled in the playoffs. Maas came off the bench to win both the semi-final and the final and then Ray blew the doors off in the Grey Cup.

Similar story with the Riders in 1989 -- Tom Burgess won at least one of their playoff games and then Austin won the Grey Cup.

Edited December 22, 2017 by johnzo

[SpeedFlex27]

1 hour ago, Mark F said:

I remember Elmore crazy legs Hirsh.

used to see the Rams on the tube when I was a child in Vancouver B.C.

have to go have a nap now. all that typing you know.....

I remember Earl Morral & Johnny Unitas. The Colts has 2 qbs with 50's styled brush cuts & high top boots playing for them when they played the (then) ultra cool long haired,  Fu Manchu moustache & white shoes Joe Namath & the Jets. I was 13 when that Super Bowl was played. The first one I actually watched. 

Edited December 22, 2017 by SpeedFlex27

[17to85]

34 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

I remember Earl Morral & Johnny Unitas. The Colts has 2 qbs with 50's styled brush cuts & high top boots playing for them when they played the (then) ultra cool long haired,  Fu Manchu moustache & white shoes Joe Namath & the Jets. I was 13 when that Super Bowl was played. The first one I actually watched. 

Now there's a hair cut you could set your watch to

[SpeedFlex27]

Edited December 22, 2017 by SpeedFlex27

[SpeedFlex27]

Edited December 22, 2017 by SpeedFlex27

[SpeedFlex27]

Back in January of 1969, it was like two generations going at it in the Super Bowl. The conservative Baltimore Colts led by Earl Morrall & Johnny Unitas representing the NFL vs the upstart, new & brash New York Jets led by Namath representing the anti establishment AFL. You had to be alive back then to really, truly appreciate the clash of styles between the 2 leagues & just how huge this upset was in professional sports. It sent shockwaves that were felt for years & paved the way for the merger just 2 years later. 

Edited December 22, 2017 by SpeedFlex27

[wbbfan]

6 hours ago, TrueBlue said:

Good info.  Just a personal suggestion from me:  Can you separate the titles of the books you refer to a little better so they are easier to identify?  (Eg. in bold, with capital letters, etc.)

Thanks.

Thanks and good idea. 

6 hours ago, rebusrankin said:

Bruce Arians book is called The QB Whisperer. Its a good read.

Yeah it is, some great stories in it. 

 

The qb whisperer - Bruce Arians. HC of the cardinals, former OC/qb coach of peyton manning, andrew luck, carson palmer (current) and ben roethlisberger, Worked for a short stint under bear bryant, one of the all time great ncaa HCs. You come for the football, but stay for the great personal stories. 

The score takes care of it self -  bill walsh. Taken to the point of compilation and first revision then shelved while walsh returned to football. He passed away, and walshs son helped with finishing the book. This book is more leadership, teaching, and building oriented then strictly football. Its like the 5 rings or the art of war. But based in football and a more modern era. It gets repetitive but the insight, stories, and lil nuggets make it well worth while.

Finding the winning edge - bill walsh. The football bible. more football, but still a strong dose of the character you find in  "the score takes care of it self".  Its harder to find in physical form, but its some thing that will come up with a huge majority of coaches, and football nerds. 

Blood sweat and chalk - Tim layden. Its a very basic Xs and Os book. The real value is the coaching lineage put down, and the history given for the systems contained in it. Especially the spread variants, and option offense.  

The big book of Belichick - Alex kirby. The style of this book is very polarizing. Its word for word copied from countless years of interviews with Belichick. The best and most interesting questions and answers. It can be tough to slog through in a single go for some people. I was one of these people. But the insights on every thing from scouting, positional play, Xs and Os, teaching, management and more is incredible. 

Football scouting methods - Steve belichick. Before Bill belichick was the envy of coaches all over, his dad was considered the original scouting guru. This book is old (1962) so you have to go in prepared for that and be ready to take some stuff with a grain of salt. Its a whole new world today. But a lot of it, the core, holds true today. This is the Old testament version of the football bible. 

1 hour ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Guys with chest hair like this (and no interest in buttoning their shirts) have a 100% percent chance of hitting on your side line reporter.

1 hour ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Back in January of 1969, it was like two generations going at it in the Super Bowl. The conservative Baltimore Colts led by Earl Morrall & Johnny Unitas representing the NFL vs the upstart, new & brash New York Jets led by Namath representing the anti establishment AFL. You had to be alive back then to really, truly appreciate the clash of styles between the 2 leagues & just how huge this upset was in professional sports. It sent shockwaves that were felt for years & paved the way for the merger just 2 years later. 

Ive never much liked al davis. But I allways respected the crap out of him for allways doing it his way and not letting fear of failure impact his actions. I wish I could have seen the old afl vs nfl superbowls. No one lets rivalry like that survive today in the pros. 

[Tracker]

8 hours ago, Fan Boy said:

Did you actually remember Earl Morall?  Holy MF you would be old and not senile. 

Lets not leap to conclusions here.

[SpeedFlex27]

 

1 hour ago, tracker said:

Lets not leap to conclusions here.

No kidding. Millennials only think that the world existed after 9/11. 

 

Edited December 23, 2017 by SpeedFlex27

[SpeedFlex27]

2 hours ago, wbbfan said:

Thanks and good idea. 

Yeah it is, some great stories in it. 

 

The qb whisperer - Bruce Arians. HC of the cardinals, former OC/qb coach of peyton manning, andrew luck, carson palmer (current) and ben roethlisberger, Worked for a short stint under bear bryant, one of the all time great ncaa HCs. You come for the football, but stay for the great personal stories. 

The score takes care of it self -  bill walsh. Taken to the point of compilation and first revision then shelved while walsh returned to football. He passed away, and walshs son helped with finishing the book. This book is more leadership, teaching, and building oriented then strictly football. Its like the 5 rings or the art of war. But based in football and a more modern era. It gets repetitive but the insight, stories, and lil nuggets make it well worth while.

Finding the winning edge - bill walsh. The football bible. more football, but still a strong dose of the character you find in  "the score takes care of it self".  Its harder to find in physical form, but its some thing that will come up with a huge majority of coaches, and football nerds. 

Blood sweat and chalk - Tim layden. Its a very basic Xs and Os book. The real value is the coaching lineage put down, and the history given for the systems contained in it. Especially the spread variants, and option offense.  

The big book of Belichick - Alex kirby. The style of this book is very polarizing. Its word for word copied from countless years of interviews with Belichick. The best and most interesting questions and answers. It can be tough to slog through in a single go for some people. I was one of these people. But the insights on every thing from scouting, positional play, Xs and Os, teaching, management and more is incredible. 

Football scouting methods - Steve belichick. Before Bill belichick was the envy of coaches all over, his dad was considered the original scouting guru. This book is old (1962) so you have to go in prepared for that and be ready to take some stuff with a grain of salt. Its a whole new world today. But a lot of it, the core, holds true today. This is the Old testament version of the football bible. 

Guys with chest hair like this (and no interest in buttoning their shirts) have a 100% percent chance of hitting on your side line reporter.

Ive never much liked al davis. But I allways respected the crap out of him for allways doing it his way and not letting fear of failure impact his actions. I wish I could have seen the old afl vs nfl superbowls. No one lets rivalry like that survive today in the pros. 

Lombardi despised Super Bowls I & 2. First, he didn't think that the AFL should play the NFL as he felt the rival league was inferior. Especially when it came to Kansas City Chiefs qb Len Dawson who was a failed starter & backup qb with the Steelers before he jumped to the AFL. Second, even though he believed the AFL was inferior, he still felt he & the Packers were under enormous pressure to represent the NFL & to win. He didn't want to be the first NFL head coach to lose to the AFL. He also said he was miserable the week preceding those 2 Super Bowls because of it. 

Edited December 23, 2017 by SpeedFlex27

[Jpan85]

Not QB related but this is a great break down of special teams that Belichick has given in his press conferences over the years. https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/11/02/bill-belichick-press-conferences-special-teams-quotes

[Jesse]

1 hour ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

 

No kidding. Millennials only think that the world existed after 9/11. 

 

Because we were in high school and our world was just beginning.

[SpeedFlex27]

5 hours ago, Jesse said:

Because we were in high school and our world was just beginning.

Someone like myself & others here who knew players from before your high school days are not decrepit. We are wise to the ways of the world.

Edited December 23, 2017 by SpeedFlex27

[SpeedFlex27]

This is for you wbbfan. The entire NBC telecast of Super Bowl III. New York Jets vs the Baltimore Colts.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Tracker]

13 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Someone like myself & others here who knew players from before your high school days are not decrepit. We are wise to the ways of the world.

But we don't buy green bananas any more or underwear in a three-pack.

[SpeedFlex27]

USF's qb Quinton Flowers looks like a protypical CFL qb.  An average passer but he can sure run. Although his arm won it for them today over Texas Tech. Great prospect although he's only 6 feet tall. We'll see what kind of NFL interest he gets.

Edited December 23, 2017 by SpeedFlex27

[rebusrankin]

Bombers neg list, perhaps we see him in a year or two.

[wbbfan]

On 12/22/2017 at 8:07 PM, SpeedFlex27 said:

Lombardi despised Super Bowls I & 2. First, he didn't think that the AFL should play the NFL as he felt the rival league was inferior. Especially when it came to Kansas City Chiefs qb Len Dawson who was a failed starter & backup qb with the Steelers before he jumped to the AFL. Second, even though he believed the AFL was inferior, he still felt he & the Packers were under enormous pressure to represent the NFL & to win. He didn't want to be the first NFL head coach to lose to the AFL. He also said he was miserable the week preceding those 2 Super Bowls because of it. 

I have a book about lombardi and that era on my list to get to. Should prove interesting. Kind of low on good football looks left to read. 

4 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

USF's qb Quinton Flowers looks like a protypical CFL qb.  An average passer but he can sure run. Although his arm won it for them today over Texas Tech. Great prospect although he's only 6 feet tall. We'll see what kind of NFL interest he gets.

In the past 10 years plenty of good runners have shown up in the ncaa. Flowers is maybe the most dangerous since vick him self. That guy with the width and spread of the field up here could be nearly un stoppable running. 

The big difference between flowers and countless dual threat QBs who drew little interest is he has a strong arm. Also being a 3 year starter helps. If he measures up 5'10 and under his chances goes way up of being in the cfl sooner rather then later. Short of coming out much shorter then hes listed he will get a few nfl TC/PR looks. Just too dynamic and rare combination of skills. 

Id rather have a guy who runs like him and has the accuracy / touch and cerebral  nature, is a shade short and doesnt have the cannon. If a guy like that can throw with strong accuracy, especially on the roll out you cant really defend it. I wish he had spent time with chip kelly in a system like oregon used to run under him.