Glenn to Edm

[17to85]

Kevin Glenn and Damon Allen are actually pretty similar guys in my mind as far as regular season qbs go, the real difference is that Allen didn't have the problems in the playoffs that Glenn does. Now obviously they're very different qbs stylistically but I also felt they were sort of average qbs who lasted a long time. 

[Jpan85]

All things being equal feel like Nichols will be the franchise leader in a lot categories before he is done.

[Tracker]

12 hours ago, 17to85 said:

Kevin Glenn and Damon Allen are actually pretty similar guys in my mind as far as regular season qbs go, the real difference is that Allen didn't have the problems in the playoffs that Glenn does. Now obviously they're very different qbs stylistically but I also felt they were sort of average qbs who lasted a long time. 

Allen had the benefit of playing for good teams, and Glenn did not, but Allen could extend plays with his legs and improvisations.

[blue_gold_84]

13 hours ago, Brandon said:

It depends on what you consider worthy of the HOF.     Is it deserving of a player who completely dominated at his position even for a short amount of time,  or is it about longevity and being above average yet never the best at his position?  

Why does it have to be either or? The HOF is meant to celebrate achievements by individuals. Passing for over 50K, something only six other QBs in CFL history have accomplished, qualifies as a pretty significant achievement, at least as far consideration into the HOF is concerned. Again, Glenn is by no means a slam dunk but I think he falls under the category of "consideration for induction" based on his individual accomplishments.

11 hours ago, Jpan85 said:

All things being equal feel like Nichols will be the franchise leader in a lot categories before he is done.

Agreed. 

[Blueandgold]

2 hours ago, tracker said:

Allen had the benefit of playing for good teams, and Glenn did not, but Allen could extend plays with his legs and improvisations.

The Stamps weren’t a good team? Come on now.

[Noeller]

1 hour ago, Blueandgold said:

The Stamps weren’t a good team? Come on now.

Our 07 team was a VERY good team..... 

[Blueandgold]

5 minutes ago, Noeller said:

Our 07 team was a VERY good team..... 

Yup. The Ticats had some good teams in the Glenn years too. 

The only bad teams he’s really played on are 05 Bombers, 15 Riders, and whatever year he played in Montreal. 

[rebusrankin]

Glenn is not a Hall of Fame QB. He is a good QB who played for a long time which allowed him to compile big stats. The Testaverde comparison is a good one. Glenn has never been the all CFL QB and was the East All star QB once. Then compare him to the 3 guys whose careers overlap the most: Ricky Ray, Henry Burris and Anthony Calvillo. All three put up better #s, all three won the cup, all three were considered better QBs than Glenn. Then if you look at the later part of his career (2013-2017), BLM, Mike Reilly, Collaros, Harris and Nichols have been viewed as better. In the early part of his career, Khari, McMannus and Allen stick out as QBs who'd be considered better. Glenn has had a nice QB and he's a better QB than any of us but he is not a Hall of Fame QB.

[17to85]

The only time I'd consider Damon Allen better than Kevin Glenn is in the playoffs. If he is in the hall then Glenn can get consideration too, though the lack of Grey Cups does hurt his chances, but he's been a fixture in the league for nearly 2 decades, that kind of longevity can be recognized. 

[SpeedFlex27]

15 hours ago, 17to85 said:

Kevin Glenn and Damon Allen are actually pretty similar guys in my mind as far as regular season qbs go, the real difference is that Allen didn't have the problems in the playoffs that Glenn does. Now obviously they're very different qbs stylistically but I also felt they were sort of average qbs who lasted a long time. 

Allen won Grey Cups in Edmonton, BC  & Toronto. 

[Blueandgold]

5 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Allen won Grey Cups in Edmonton, BC  & Toronto. 

An MOP winner and a man with multiple grey cup rings should not be getting compared to Kevin Glenn.

[rebusrankin]

22 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

The only time I'd consider Damon Allen better than Kevin Glenn is in the playoffs. If he is in the hall then Glenn can get consideration too, though the lack of Grey Cups does hurt his chances, but he's been a fixture in the league for nearly 2 decades, that kind of longevity can be recognized. 

Allen has an MOP award, Glenn does not. Allen was a much better threat with his legs (a 1000 yard rushing season as a QB, 4 season over 830 yards rushing, 8 season over 700 yards rushing). Regular season Allen was better a better QB than Glenn when you factor in what a dual threat he was and what he brought overall to the offense. Then you add in the 4 Grey Cup wins and the fact that he was MOP in 3 of them and its no contest.

[Noeller]

Whether Allen was deserving of his accolades, such as MOP, is another conversation........ 

[SpeedFlex27]

51 minutes ago, rebusrankin said:

Allen has an MOP award, Glenn does not. Allen was a much better threat with his legs (a 1000 yard rushing season as a QB, 4 season over 830 yards rushing, 8 season over 700 yards rushing). Regular season Allen was better a better QB than Glenn when you factor in what a dual threat he was and what he brought overall to the offense. Then you add in the 4 Grey Cup wins and the fact that he was MOP in 3 of them and its no contest.

Allen took a lot of flack when he played & some fans seem to remember his laid back attitude on the field in a negative way. I think some believe that he didn't care but that was just the way he was.  He was a competitor but he wasn't vocal about it. The guy is a deserved HOF'er. Glenn will get in due to longevity but he isn't anywhere as good as Allen was when he played. 

[Mark F]

I remember some of the same people saying Glenn should be a hall of famer,  at one time saying Damon shouldn't be cause all he had was longevity.... 

The idea that Damon Allen isn't one of the all time CFL greats, is pretty silly.

Noeller and 1785 don't like Damon Allen.

Who knows why.

 

Edited January 20, 2018 by Mark F

[17to85]

1 hour ago, rebusrankin said:

Allen has an MOP award, Glenn does not. Allen was a much better threat with his legs (a 1000 yard rushing season as a QB, 4 season over 830 yards rushing, 8 season over 700 yards rushing). Regular season Allen was better a better QB than Glenn when you factor in what a dual threat he was and what he brought overall to the offense. Then you add in the 4 Grey Cup wins and the fact that he was MOP in 3 of them and its no contest.

1 MOP and Glenn could have easily been MOP once as well. 

Like I said playoffs are another matter but the legend of Damon Allen is far greater than the qb he actually was. Guy was always in the same situation as Glenn, he was good enough when you have nothing else but teams were always looking for better. 

I already said there's a big difference in their playoff performances but regular season? Damon Allen was an average qb. 

[SpeedFlex27]

10 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

1 MOP and Glenn could have easily been MOP once as well. 

Like I said playoffs are another matter but the legend of Damon Allen is far greater than the qb he actually was. Guy was always in the same situation as Glenn, he was good enough when you have nothing else but teams were always looking for better. 

I already said there's a big difference in their playoff performances but regular season? Damon Allen was an average qb. 

What season could Glenn have been an MOP? When the chips were done Allen won. With Glenn when the chips were down he picked them up. He has never won the last game he played no matter what team he played for. He's never been an MOP calibre qb. Especially compared to Damon Allen. 

[rebusrankin]

12 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

1 MOP and Glenn could have easily been MOP once as well. 

Like I said playoffs are another matter but the legend of Damon Allen is far greater than the qb he actually was. Guy was always in the same situation as Glenn, he was good enough when you have nothing else but teams were always looking for better. 

I already said there's a big difference in their playoff performances but regular season? Damon Allen was an average qb. 

Regular season Allen was better when his dual threat ability is considered. Ignore facts all you want but just because you have an avvy of Sheldon Cooper doesn't mean you're always right and you're certainly not in this case.

[rebusrankin]

Damon Allen was traded twice from Hamilton to Edmonton in 1993 and from BC to Toronto in 2003. Glenn was traded from the Riders to Toronto to Winnipeg in 2004, from Hamilton to Calgary in 2012, from Ottawa to BC in 2014, from Saskatchewan to Montreal in 2015 and from Montreal to Winnipeg in 2016. That's five times Glenn was traded. Glenn was also released twice (2009 and 2018).

The lack of playoff success, the number of times that he was traded or released, the lack of individual awards and the fact that he was never considered a top QB when compared to his contemporaries all adds up to Glenn not being a Hall of Fame QB.

[Floyd]

Bit of a sad tale...  no broken arm means grey cup in 2007, better start in 08, no Mike Kelly in 09... and HOF candidate easily.

Eiben is still a scumbag.

[17to85]

30 minutes ago, rebusrankin said:

Regular season Allen was better when his dual threat ability is considered. Ignore facts all you want but just because you have an avvy of Sheldon Cooper doesn't mean you're always right and you're certainly not in this case.

No he wasn't, I am looking at the entirety of their game and Damon Allen was an average quarterback. People just got so used to talking about him as this all time great because of the huge career numbers he put up due to playing forever and a day, but it's the same reason Glenn has all those numbers, played a long long time. 

Maybe we shouldn't even Judge Glenn so harshly for his lack of cups anyway, the Stamps still choke in the big game with or without Glenn there, 07 I firmly believe he would have beaten the Riders that day if not for a broken arm... 

I just think that Damon Allen is over rated and Kevin Glenn under rated. 

[SpeedFlex27]

27 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

No he wasn't, I am looking at the entirety of their game and Damon Allen was an average quarterback. People just got so used to talking about him as this all time great because of the huge career numbers he put up due to playing forever and a day, but it's the same reason Glenn has all those numbers, played a long long time. 

Maybe we shouldn't even Judge Glenn so harshly for his lack of cups anyway, the Stamps still choke in the big game with or without Glenn there, 07 I firmly believe he would have beaten the Riders that day if not for a broken arm... 

I just think that Damon Allen is over rated and Kevin Glenn under rated. 

Maybe, shoulda, coulda. Then there's your last sentence.

[rebusrankin]

So we ignore Allen's MOP, we ignore the fact that he was a dual threat QB who brought a dimension that Glenn did not to the game and we ignore the fact that Allen had a winning record and Glenn does not so that we can accept 17to85's contention that Allen was average in the regular season and that they are similar guys in the regular season?

[17to85]

Dual threat is a useless argument because when talking about overall effectiveness of a qb it doesn't matter if he did what he did by running and passing or just by passing. He was an average qb regardless of whether he got to that level by being able to run and pass or not. 

I am not ignoring his MOP either, but it is a pretty arbitrary award when you consider how the voting for it is done. Glenn had some seasons where he was among the top players too. 

Damon Allen gets over rated because his career numbers are huge, but his years played were huge too. He was an average qb.  There were always a bunch of qbs in the league that were very clearly superior to him. They didn't stick around as long but if you went and did a ranking of all the qbs at a given time Damon Allen was never going to be in the top group, which is what made him average. 

[SpeedFlex27]

5 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Dual threat is a useless argument because when talking about overall effectiveness of a qb it doesn't matter if he did what he did by running and passing or just by passing. He was an average qb regardless of whether he got to that level by being able to run and pass or not. 

I am not ignoring his MOP either, but it is a pretty arbitrary award when you consider how the voting for it is done. Glenn had some seasons where he was among the top players too. 

Damon Allen gets over rated because his career numbers are huge, but his years played were huge too. He was an average qb.  There were always a bunch of qbs in the league that were very clearly superior to him. They didn't stick around as long but if you went and did a ranking of all the qbs at a given time Damon Allen was never going to be in the top group, which is what made him average. 

Your argument is very weak. matter of fact it's shot full of holes.Damon Allen was not just an average qb on par with Kevin Glenn. He was head & shoulders above Glenn. Even Glenn would agree with that assessment.