Will we be better or worse?

[Goalie]

Lol. Same old from the same old. 

 

Tell me @TheSource and closet Rider homer @tracker

WTF do you know? Like who you guys kidding here acting like you actually are pro GMs or Coaches. 

 

 

[JuranBoldenRules]

2 hours ago, tracker said:

And how many times have the Bombers gone to the cup under their tenure? Its only a 9 team league and more than one team has been rebuilt and gone to the CFL final. If the Riders manage to win the west this year, some questions need to be asked. And who hires and assesses the scouts?

Pretty good chance the Bombers would have made the last two Grey Cups if they were in the East too.  They would have needed one playoff win at home each year.  Gotta talk apples if you're going to make that comparison.

[Tracker]

11 hours ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

Pretty good chance the Bombers would have made the last two Grey Cups if they were in the East too.  They would have needed one playoff win at home each year.  Gotta talk apples if you're going to make that comparison.

That is an assumption. To quote a noted coach," You are what your record says you are", and as many years as the current regime has been here, the Bombers have won one playoff game. There may be extenuating circumstances, but the record is what it is.

Edited April 8, 2018 by tracker

[17to85]

Give me a team that wins more than it loses in the regular season every time and eventually the playoffs will take care of themselves. Seriously people don't we remember what happened the last times we fired coaches because making the playoffs just wasn't good enough?

[Tracker]

2 hours ago, 17to85 said:

Give me a team that wins more than it loses in the regular season every time and eventually the playoffs will take care of themselves. Seriously people don't we remember what happened the last times we fired coaches because making the playoffs just wasn't good enough?

If I follow that line of thinking to its logical conclusion- how many years should a GM and head coach have without making it to the final before enough is enough? Two? Five? Eight? At some point, in a 9-team league, a conclusion has to be reached that whatever it takes to win the Cup, the existing regime doesn't have it. I am not advocating to sack O'Shea and Walters right now , but its been a very long dry spell for us fans. If somehow Jones in Regina manages to win the west, there will be a lot of ticked-off fans, and rightfully so.

[Brandon]

Why would they fire these guys?   We finally are a time where players want to play for this team and the team as a whole is trending up?  I wouldn't even consider firing Walters or O'Shea.   

[blueingreenland]

And we are a consistent playoff team right now.

Yup, lots going right for this team. 

[Floyd]

4 hours ago, blueingreenland said:

And we are a consistent playoff team right now.

Yup, lots going right for this team. 

There's not much I ever agree with in The Source's posts...

But if we take a step back this year - I think it should put at least Walters' scouting staff and Mike Osh on the hotseat.  We're three years into Richie Hall - that's a hard one to ignore...

That being said, I'd keep everything in place for 2-3 more years at least 

 

[Tracker]

11 hours ago, Floyd said:

There's not much I ever agree with in The Source's posts...

But if we take a step back this year - I think it should put at least Walters' scouting staff and Mike Osh on the hotseat.  We're three years into Richie Hall - that's a hard one to ignore...

That being said, I'd keep everything in place for 2-3 more years at least 

 

Even if the Bombers never make it to the Grey Cup?

[JCon]

10 hours ago, Floyd said:

There's not much I ever agree with in The Source's posts...

But if we take a step back this year - I think it should put at least Walters' scouting staff and Mike Osh on the hotseat.  We're three years into Richie Hall - that's a hard one to ignore...

That being said, I'd keep everything in place for 2-3 more years at least 

 

True but it would appear as though they're putting into place key people on defence that will turn this around with a transition plan. I may be reading too much into the moves they've made but it looks like they're moving in a new direction and allowing Hall to exit gracefully.

I expect (hope?) a big turnaround on defence this year. 

[Atomic]

There is a lot of luck that goes into winning the Grey Cup... gotta get healthy and hot at the right time.  So all you really have to do is play well enough to secure a playoff spot and then hope for the best.  People don't like to hear that but it is reality.  As long as we're getting into the playoffs I would never fire Walters/O'Shea.

[Blueandgold]

Should Calgary blow the ship up because they lay an egg in the Grey Cup every year?

[Mark F]

Calgary has to get a new quarterback, to win the Grey Cup. Bo can't seem to come through in the clutch.

There's luck, but there's more skill than luck in winning the grey Cup. Looked at Over a number of years, luck is no more than an excuse for not doing a good job.

There are NFL coachs that are considered good to great that haven't won a championship, but not CFL with eight teams.

Not saying fire the coach, but till you've at least been in the Grey Cup game, there's not much to brag about.

it's clearly been shown recently that a team can be in it in a very short period of time. and Win.

 

 

Edited April 9, 2018 by Mark F

[blue_gold_84]

15 minutes ago, Mark F said:

Calgary has to get a new quarterback, to win the Grey Cup. Bo can't seem to come through in the clutch.

The 2014 Stampeders won the Grey Cup... Mitchell was the starting QB. Saying he's not clutch is inaccurate.

It takes a team to win it all.

[Tracker]

There is an element of luck to winning a single game, but talent and hard work determine overall success. But having a "good" or "happy" team doesn't guarantee anything. The Don didn't get too many Xmas cards from his players but his teams won consistently. On the other hand Reinbold and Mike Kelly had players gushing over them, and we know that went.  In hockey, Barry Trotz guided winning teams in the regular season, but choked in the playoffs, so he got canned. The Bombers and fans have had enough promises. Time for the current regime to cook or get off the stove.

[Atomic]

23 minutes ago, tracker said:

There is an element of luck to winning a single game, but talent and hard work determine overall success. But having a "good" or "happy" team doesn't guarantee anything. The Don didn't get too many Xmas cards from his players but his teams won consistently. On the other hand Reinbold and Mike Kelly had players gushing over them, and we know that went.  In hockey, Barry Trotz guided winning teams in the regular season, but choked in the playoffs, so he got canned. The Bombers and fans have had enough promises. Time for the current regime to cook or get off the stove.

Look at the teams Don Matthews won Grey Cups with... the Baltimore Stallions and the Flutie Argos.  If you're firing coaches because they can't achieve that level of dominance in today's CFL, you'll never be satisfied.

Outside of those teams he won one Grey Cup in five years with BC and one Grey Cup in five years with Montreal.  No Cups elsewhere.  To say his teams won consistently is just revisionist history.  He is one of the greatest coaches in CFL history and he won five cups in 22 seasons as a head coach.  I guess in those other 17 years he just forgot how to coach.

[Tracker]

3 hours ago, Atomic said:

Look at the teams Don Matthews won Grey Cups with... the Baltimore Stallions and the Flutie Argos.  If you're firing coaches because they can't achieve that level of dominance in today's CFL, you'll never be satisfied.

Outside of those teams he won one Grey Cup in five years with BC and one Grey Cup in five years with Montreal.  No Cups elsewhere.  To say his teams won consistently is just revisionist history.  He is one of the greatest coaches in CFL history and he won five cups in 22 seasons as a head coach.  I guess in those other 17 years he just forgot how to coach.

I believe you are exaggerating and distorting my comments. In an 8-team  league, a team ought to be competitive every year (with due respect to the mess Walters inherited) but he and O'Shea have had ample time to produce a team capable of going to the Cup final. Weird stuff can (and does) happen in the final but the Bomber braintrust has to show that they have the right stuff to win the cup or step aside.

[BigBlue]

I believe Heath being gone is going to help a lot more than hurt. He was a risk taker and that cost us more than we know. We had so many defensive breakdowns in the secondary that cost us large ... I expect those breakdowns to be more or less eliminated with different popsitional coaching and more stick to your own knitting DB's

[rebusrankin]

I think we have a legitimate shot at the cup and that is all you can ask for.

[wbbfan]

On 4/8/2018 at 2:27 PM, Brandon said:

Why would they fire these guys?   We finally are a time where players want to play for this team and the team as a whole is trending up?  I wouldn't even consider firing Walters or O'Shea.   

 To play devils advocate a bit, Some times the management or coaching (more coaching) is enough to turn a franchise around but isnt the right ones to take it all the way. (marty shottenheimer and a couple other nfl coaches have been the turn around guy but not the all the way guy). Also, imo soft player friendly coaching has a shorter half life then a hard ass coach. But im not sure how much of a hard ass you can even be as a coach any more. The cfl should bring in Simon sinek to talk to all the management and coaching. or a team should. You cant really put the boots to player any more and his modern leadership style would probably be gigantic for modern football coaching.

That said 1) its too soon to say that this year. 2) we cant just upgrade them. if we fired either we would be hoping some one who failed at HCing last attempt or a CO could step up to a high level.They are well above replacement level coaching and Gming in the cfl. 3) right now what we need is a consistent good team. We want a championship but we need to be a contender for several years. 4) both are still improving. if we fired either Im sure they would be haunting us on other teams for 20 years to follow. 

[Jaxon]

I'm old enough to remember too many unjustified firings of coaches in the past.   

Cal Murphy canned after losing a playoff game in Edmonton.   We always contended under Murphy, and won our share of cups too.....but the sky was falling and the panic took hold of the decision makers.   Horrible decision, but in their minds "somebody has to pay".    We brought in Reinbold and that was the end of a successful era.

Dave Ritchie canned after we couldn't win the big one.   We went 14-4, 12-6, 11-7 in the three years prior to 2004.   We got off to a bad start in '04, and once again we panicked and fired a good coach.  We replaced him with Jim Daley.

Doug Berry took us to a cup appearance in 2007, then after making the playoff in '08 we canned him too and replace him with Mike Kelly.

Paul Lapolice took us to a cup appearance in 2011, so naturally when we struggled half way through 2012, we replaced him with Tim Burke.

 

I firmly believe that Walters and O'Shea are one the right path.   We're winning more than we are losing, and we are contending for the cup.   It will happen sooner if we continue to build and offer a great program with consistency.    The knee jerk firing of coaches rarely works out well.

 

PS>   I'm very pleased that the Jets didn't bow to the loonies running around last summer calling for Paul Maurice's replacement.   Funny how they have all disappeared.

 

 

 

[mbrg]

1 hour ago, Jaxon said:

I'm old enough to remember too many unjustified firings of coaches in the past.   

 

I'm old enough to remember Tracker hints OShea and Walters should be fired on a weekly basis regardless what happens.

[wbbfan]

5 hours ago, Atomic said:

Look at the teams Don Matthews won Grey Cups with... the Baltimore Stallions and the Flutie Argos.  If you're firing coaches because they can't achieve that level of dominance in today's CFL, you'll never be satisfied.

Outside of those teams he won one Grey Cup in five years with BC and one Grey Cup in five years with Montreal.  No Cups elsewhere.  To say his teams won consistently is just revisionist history.  He is one of the greatest coaches in CFL history and he won five cups in 22 seasons as a head coach.  I guess in those other 17 years he just forgot how to coach.

by else where do you mean the 3 years in regina, 2 years as a HC in edm and the half a year in toronto? so all he did was set the record for most GC appearances, tie the record with most GC wins, win 3 GCs in a row with 2 different teams,  won GCs with 4 different teams (has any one done that?) and didnt win one with 2. But then he also won a GC as the DC of edm. He also only missed the play offs in the last half a year with toronto. His longest GC drought was 8 years, winning the year before and after that. You can add asterisks and provisos all you want but in sports you cant argue with championships. 

The don may have won 2 of his 5 gcs with flutie, but flutie won 2 of his 3 with don mathews. 

Is dominance impossible today? the stamps say no. 

[Brandon]

Question the Bomber scouting department?  So we are not convinced that our QB, RB,  top Receivers and most of our key guys are not "good enough" ???

[Atomic]

50 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

by else where do you mean the 3 years in regina, 2 years as a HC in edm and the half a year in toronto? so all he did was set the record for most GC appearances, tie the record with most GC wins, win 3 GCs in a row with 2 different teams,  won GCs with 4 different teams (has any one done that?) and didnt win one with 2. But then he also won a GC as the DC of edm. He also only missed the play offs in the last half a year with toronto. His longest GC drought was 8 years, winning the year before and after that. You can add asterisks and provisos all you want but in sports you cant argue with championships. 

The don may have won 2 of his 5 gcs with flutie, but flutie won 2 of his 3 with don mathews. 

Is dominance impossible today? the stamps say no. 

You completely missed the point.  Matthews is obviously a legend and even he didn't win the Grey Cup in 17 of his 22 seasons.  He went 1/5 in stops in Montreal and BC.  That doesn't mean he was a bad coach and needed to be fired in those non Cup years, just like MOS and Walters don't need to be fired now.

The point is not to diminish Matthews' accomplishments but to put them in perspective.  He had several years that looked just like what MOS put on the field in 2016-17.  It doesn't mean he wasn't great in those years just like 2 playoff losses don't mean that MOS can't take us to the cup.

Edited April 10, 2018 by Atomic