Will we be better or worse?

[Tracker]

2 hours ago, BBRT said:

My thoughts are that the Bombers may be marginally better over all. But with the defense still being a Richie Hall defense, I have my doubts we will be able to score enough points to win our share. The other concern I have is that the balance of the West appears, at least in my opinion, to have improved to a greater extent.

So I see the Bombers as more or less a status quo while others such as Saskatchewan have become better. Whether Calgary or Edmonton have fallen off or stayed the same or even improved is a judgement call. 

I have to disagree with you. The only way the Riders will be better is if, against all probabilities, Hurl and Collaros exceed all expectations. Fat chance, there, and Chris Jones is running out of lives. 

[Mark F]

Is Sask.  going to start Sam Hurl at middle linebacker? Is that the plan at this point?

 

[JCon]

2 hours ago, Mark F said:

Is Sask.  going to start Sam Hurl at middle linebacker? Is that the plan at this point?

 

YES IT IS!!! But, you know, Jones is a genius and Hurl was misused. 

Maybe Hurl can be taught to tackle? 

[Tracker]

13 hours ago, JCon said:

YES IT IS!!! But, you know, Jones is a genius and Hurl was misused. 

Maybe Hurl can be taught to tackle? 

Probably not, but maybe he can put on a lot of extra weight so that its takes longer for opposing O-linemen to step over him.

[blueingreenland]

If you ask Rod Peterson, we are worse (5th he predicts). If you ask me, we will be about the same - and that means we have a terrific season. I believe we could challenge for first place. IMHO, B.C. finishes 5th in the west, but 1 thru 4 is anyone's guess.

[BBRT]

22 hours ago, Mark F said:

Is Sask.  going to start Sam Hurl at middle linebacker? Is that the plan at this point?

 

I don't think they will start him - but at this point in time hard to say. I believe the Riders are counting on someone else to fill that void. According to RiderFans.com they really don't know who will fill the MLB role.

[wbbfan]

1 hour ago, BBRT said:

I don't think they will start him - but at this point in time hard to say. I believe the Riders are counting on someone else to fill that void. According to RiderFans.com they really don't know who will fill the MLB role.

its denial lol 

[rebusrankin]

What if we're worse recordwise but win a playoff game or the whole thing?

[17to85]

4 hours ago, blueingreenland said:

If you ask Rod Peterson, we are worse (5th he predicts). If you ask me, we will be about the same - and that means we have a terrific season. I believe we could challenge for first place. IMHO, B.C. finishes 5th in the west, but 1 thru 4 is anyone's guess.

The only opinion from Rod Pedersen that has any merit is how Chris Jones ass tastes.

[James]

I think Bowman and Adams on the same team is going to be very very entertaining

[Bigblue204]

17 hours ago, rebusrankin said:

What if we're worse recordwise but win a playoff game or the whole thing?

Then they will be better.

[Tracker]

We can prognosticate all we want but until the draft is done and so is training camp, we are all just taking shots in the dark.  Ah well, its gives us something to beat our gums about, but waiting is frustrating. And boring.

[Bigblue204]

2 minutes ago, tracker said:

We can prognosticate all we want but until the draft is done and so is training camp, we are all just taking shots in the dark.  Ah well, its gives us something to beat our gums about, but waiting is frustrating. And boring.

Even then it's a guess at best. Everyone is one play away from disaster.

[blueingreenland]

2 minutes ago, Bigblue204 said:

Even then it's a guess at best. Everyone is one play away from disaster.

True. But this is not factoring injuries in.

I don't see any indication that b.c. has improved. Sask should with Collaros at QB.  Edmonton and Calgary will be in the mix.  We should, at least, be as good. This is spring, where hope springs eternal (well, at least if your anybody but an Allouette fan).

[TheSource]

It's only my opinion below so relax with the insults.

Based on what Bombers have done to date the team is weaker than last year, and if the season were to start tomorrow I wouldn't pick them to finish above 3rd in the West, and possibly they could even regress all the way to finishing last. Primarily this is due to Bombers being so passive in free agency while other teams have made solid improvements.

But all is not lost and saying that, they could turn out better than last year when the season starts. Bombers are gambling on replenishing a depleted National talent pool by having some players currently on the roster step up or by making a lucky draft selection or two. In addition, some of the problems they have had at import positions could definitely be solved through scouting, and I think the team is definitely rolling the dice and relying on the competence of their scouting efforts. That's great, but  it is still a risk that all teams have to face, not just WBB.

For where they are now, here is what I think by position:

QB: Definitely improved. This is probably the best 1-2 combo in the league, however protection and time to throw will determine if this matters at all.

RB: Status quo in this area. Harris and Flanders are great - no question. Good depth having National K LaFrance who will now be needed if Harris gets hurt due to ratio problems even though he is a huge question mark in terms of what he can do.

FB: Definitely regressed. Yes in the Lapo offence this position is hardly used, but when it was it was effective. They will miss having a proven performer to come through on key plays. This loss also hurts because it could affect the way the Bombers protect the QB.

OLINE: Definitely regressed. Unfortunately the loss of Bond is huge - more than most here are prepared to admit. Neufeld is Hurl 2.0 except he is also so fragile that I doubt you will have to worry about him being in the lineup after game 5. Unfortunately, by that time I think he will get Nichols, and possibly also Durant on the IR with serious injuries before the end of that  first 5 game stretch. None of the options Bombers have for CDN replacements to Hurl are proven, and because of the weakness of CDN depth at other positions, this could get ugly. 

Import Receivers: Improved, but not as much as one would expect. Adams is a premier receiver, but will he stay healthy? Seems to be too skinny in the upper body to stay healthy for a whole season. It is a weakness of LaPo that he only likes those tall skinny guys in my opinion. Adding Bowman is great because it addresses the lack of big play capability in the receiving corps of the last two years. The only thing here is that Edmonton is a quality organization that knows how to evaluate talent. Bowman may be tailing off and has lost a step if Edmonton was willing to let him go, or perhaps they know something about his chronic injury status that Bombers do not know. Dresseler has lost a step and he is not durable, but he will contribute and one of the other receivers from last year such as Lankford or Washington can probably account for equivalent production.

National Recievers: Definitely regressed. Julian Feoli Guidino was a known commodity. Demski is local so he is liked, but his production to date is nowhere near JFG, and expecting any improvement is purely speculation. With Coates he looks good but the sample size is too small so that's a gamble too. Wolitarsky should not even be in the conversation as he has not shown anything to be more than TC fodder. Bombers need to start 2 Cdns as receivers due to their ratio problems, and I think if they do, they will be in trouble.

Linebacker: Definitely regressed. If it were not for the Leggett injury, this would be status quo, but with that injury Leggett is going to have to prove whether he can still play at a high level, or even at a level that is average for that position. Wild is not going to last a whole season, and frankly he looked good on a 3-15 team but has never showed that he is a performer on a 12-6 team. Santos-Knox is workman like and there is nothing wrong with that. Everything else is a big question mark.

DLine: Improved, but at the cost of the ratio. Losing Westerman is a critical loss that takes a team with so-so Cdn depth and now pushes it back to edge. I think Bombers are going to have bigtime ratio problems this year. However, I think that playing an all-import DLine will be an improvement and I think that Jeffcoat, OgoPogo, Nevis, and Johnson will all have good years.

Secondary: Definitely regressed. And this is bad, because last year they almost set a CFL record for giving up yards and explosion plays. What they had was bad, and now there are more unknowns with the loss of Heath. Having Randle and Loffler are the only things here that are positive, but they can't do it alone. Gaitor and Fenner are OK, acquisitions, but the BC secondary has been about as bad as the Wpg secondary in the last 5 years, so I just don't see an improvement there, othern than that BC scout Bombers picked up pushing his shtick. Regarding the other bunch they had last year the sample size is small, and the results are very suspect.

Special Teams: Improved. The one thing Kyle Walters is good at doing is finding those lesser ham'n'egger type of players that come at a reduced value price to play teams. It's why Mike and Kyle get along so well.

Coaching: Improved. You can't argue with canning a few defensive coaches on a team that was 2nd worst on defense last season. What they do going forward on defense coaching wise just can't be any worse. On offence I think they are really good for coaching and can only get better. I think Lapo is doing a great job overall. OShea is decent, a good person, and his players love him. Due to hard learned experience can't see him making as many mistakes as previous years.

Scouting: Not sure yet. Has not been good enough but to fill some of the gaps on this team to stay competitive they are going to have to be good enough this year.

GM: Not sold on this guy. Results are mixed and he is just not aggressive enough. If Bombers regress this year, in my opinion it is all on Kyle Walters, and then if Wade Miller doesn't make a change it will be all on Wade too.

 

[JCon]

1 hour ago, TheSource said:

It's only my opinion below so relax with the insults.

Based on what Bombers have done to date the team is weaker than last year, and if the season were to start tomorrow I wouldn't pick them to finish above 3rd in the West, and possibly they could even regress all the way to finishing last. Primarily this is due to Bombers being so passive in free agency while other teams have made solid improvements.

But all is not lost and saying that, they could turn out better than last year when the season starts. Bombers are gambling on replenishing a depleted National talent pool by having some players currently on the roster step up or by making a lucky draft selection or two. In addition, some of the problems they have had at import positions could definitely be solved through scouting, and I think the team is definitely rolling the dice and relying on the competence of their scouting efforts. That's great, but  it is still a risk that all teams have to face, not just WBB.

For where they are now, here is what I think by position:

QB: Definitely improved. This is probably the best 1-2 combo in the league, however protection and time to throw will determine if this matters at all.

RB: Status quo in this area. Harris and Flanders are great - no question. Good depth having National K LaFrance who will now be needed if Harris gets hurt due to ratio problems even though he is a huge question mark in terms of what he can do.

FB: Definitely regressed. Yes in the Lapo offence this position is hardly used, but when it was it was effective. They will miss having a proven performer to come through on key plays. This loss also hurts because it could affect the way the Bombers protect the QB.

OLINE: Definitely regressed. Unfortunately the loss of Bond is huge - more than most here are prepared to admit. Neufeld is Hurl 2.0 except he is also so fragile that I doubt you will have to worry about him being in the lineup after game 5. Unfortunately, by that time I think he will get Nichols, and possibly also Durant on the IR with serious injuries before the end of that  first 5 game stretch. None of the options Bombers have for CDN replacements to Hurl are proven, and because of the weakness of CDN depth at other positions, this could get ugly. 

Import Receivers: Improved, but not as much as one would expect. Adams is a premier receiver, but will he stay healthy? Seems to be too skinny in the upper body to stay healthy for a whole season. It is a weakness of LaPo that he only likes those tall skinny guys in my opinion. Adding Bowman is great because it addresses the lack of big play capability in the receiving corps of the last two years. The only thing here is that Edmonton is a quality organization that knows how to evaluate talent. Bowman may be tailing off and has lost a step if Edmonton was willing to let him go, or perhaps they know something about his chronic injury status that Bombers do not know. Dresseler has lost a step and he is not durable, but he will contribute and one of the other receivers from last year such as Lankford or Washington can probably account for equivalent production.

National Recievers: Definitely regressed. Julian Feoli Guidino was a known commodity. Demski is local so he is liked, but his production to date is nowhere near JFG, and expecting any improvement is purely speculation. With Coates he looks good but the sample size is too small so that's a gamble too. Wolitarsky should not even be in the conversation as he has not shown anything to be more than TC fodder. Bombers need to start 2 Cdns as receivers due to their ratio problems, and I think if they do, they will be in trouble.

Linebacker: Definitely regressed. If it were not for the Leggett injury, this would be status quo, but with that injury Leggett is going to have to prove whether he can still play at a high level, or even at a level that is average for that position. Wild is not going to last a whole season, and frankly he looked good on a 3-15 team but has never showed that he is a performer on a 12-6 team. Santos-Knox is workman like and there is nothing wrong with that. Everything else is a big question mark.

DLine: Improved, but at the cost of the ratio. Losing Westerman is a critical loss that takes a team with so-so Cdn depth and now pushes it back to edge. I think Bombers are going to have bigtime ratio problems this year. However, I think that playing an all-import DLine will be an improvement and I think that Jeffcoat, OgoPogo, Nevis, and Johnson will all have good years.

Secondary: Definitely regressed. And this is bad, because last year they almost set a CFL record for giving up yards and explosion plays. What they had was bad, and now there are more unknowns with the loss of Heath. Having Randle and Loffler are the only things here that are positive, but they can't do it alone. Gaitor and Fenner are OK, acquisitions, but the BC secondary has been about as bad as the Wpg secondary in the last 5 years, so I just don't see an improvement there, othern than that BC scout Bombers picked up pushing his shtick. Regarding the other bunch they had last year the sample size is small, and the results are very suspect.

Special Teams: Improved. The one thing Kyle Walters is good at doing is finding those lesser ham'n'egger type of players that come at a reduced value price to play teams. It's why Mike and Kyle get along so well.

Coaching: Improved. You can't argue with canning a few defensive coaches on a team that was 2nd worst on defense last season. What they do going forward on defense coaching wise just can't be any worse. On offence I think they are really good for coaching and can only get better. I think Lapo is doing a great job overall. OShea is decent, a good person, and his players love him. Due to hard learned experience can't see him making as many mistakes as previous years.

Scouting: Not sure yet. Has not been good enough but to fill some of the gaps on this team to stay competitive they are going to have to be good enough this year.

GM: Not sold on this guy. Results are mixed and he is just not aggressive enough. If Bombers regress this year, in my opinion it is all on Kyle Walters, and then if Wade Miller doesn't make a change it will be all on Wade too.

 

I disagree with most of this. Receivers are better and they improved during the season. Demski is upgrade over JFG. JFG was a known commodity but we knew was that he was fine, not great. Again, we got better during the season last year and don't see any regression. 

Bond leaving will hurt but we've got lots of national talent. Not really worried there. 

GM: Guy has consistently made the team better and attracted top talent. Not sure what else this guy can do to impress you. 

Secondary is much better. Not sure why you would think it has regressed.

I was doubtful about Moe Leggs but the guy has already proven he's healthy. Not sure why we've regressed there. Not having Hurl, the Matador, back there makes us instantly better. 

[TheSource]

1 minute ago, JCon said:

I disagree with most of this. Receivers are better and they improved during the season. Demski is upgrade over JFG. JFG was a known commodity but we knew was that he was fine, not great. Again, we got better during the season last year and don't see any regression. 

Bond leaving will hurt but we've got lots of national talent. Not really worried there. 

GM: Guy has consistently made the team better and attracted top talent. Not sure what else this guy can do to impress you. 

Secondary is much better. Not sure why you would think it has regressed.

I was doubtful about Moe Leggs but the guy has already proven he's healthy. Not sure why we've regressed there. Not having Hurl, the Matador, back there makes us instantly better. 

Fair enough. You could very well be right if the moves work out.

It is all just speculation for fun.

 

[JCon]

10 minutes ago, TheSource said:

Fair enough. You could very well be right if the moves work out.

It is all just speculation for fun.

 

I don't think we improved as much this offseason as we did last but I didn't think we needed to. I think we need to fix a few holes and maintain what we have. We're close and I hope we keep our leadership team together. 

[Goalie]

If our D improves we will be pretty damn good. The biggest question for me is how good will our D be. 

[Tracker]

4 hours ago, TheSource said:

It's only my opinion below so relax with the insults.

Based on what Bombers have done to date the team is weaker than last year, and if the season were to start tomorrow I wouldn't pick them to finish above 3rd in the West, and possibly they could even regress all the way to finishing last. Primarily this is due to Bombers being so passive in free agency while other teams have made solid improvements.

But all is not lost and saying that, they could turn out better than last year when the season starts. Bombers are gambling on replenishing a depleted National talent pool by having some players currently on the roster step up or by making a lucky draft selection or two. In addition, some of the problems they have had at import positions could definitely be solved through scouting, and I think the team is definitely rolling the dice and relying on the competence of their scouting efforts. That's great, but  it is still a risk that all teams have to face, not just WBB.

Coaching: Improved. You can't argue with canning a few defensive coaches on a team that was 2nd worst on defense last season. What they do going forward on defense coaching wise just can't be any worse. On offence I think they are really good for coaching and can only get better. I think Lapo is doing a great job overall. OShea is decent, a good person, and his players love him. Due to hard learned experience can't see him making as many mistakes as previous years.

Scouting: Not sure yet. Has not been good enough but to fill some of the gaps on this team to stay competitive they are going to have to be good enough this year.

GM: Not sold on this guy. Results are mixed and he is just not aggressive enough. If Bombers regress this year, in my opinion it is all on Kyle Walters, and then if Wade Miller doesn't make a change it will be all on Wade too.

Agreed that all the changes will make for an interesting training camp. Insofar as you receiving criticism is concerned, why would this forum break with tradition? O'Shea and Walters have to be feeling the heat this year. Its all been a hugfest, but nothing but foreplay so far and the natives are getting restless. Walters might buy himself another year if he puts the axe to O'Shea, but time is running out. And we still have Richie Hall in charge of the defence.

 

 

4 hours ago, TheSource said:

 

 

[blueingreenland]

 

38 minutes ago, tracker said:

Walters might buy himself another year if he puts the axe to O'Shea, but time is running out. And we still have Richie Hall in charge of the defence.

Are we really talking about management being under the gun? Good grief guys! O'Shea has made mistakes, but every coach does. And Walters? The guy has been terrific. If anything, our scouts are to blame a bit, but not Walters. I don't want to go back to the days of "cleaning house" every 2 years.

[WBBFanWest]

15 minutes ago, blueingreenland said:

 

Are we really talking about management being under the gun? Good grief guys! O'Shea has made mistakes, but every coach does. And Walters? The guy has been terrific. If anything, our scouts are to blame a bit, but not Walters. I don't want to go back to the days of "cleaning house" every 2 years.

Yes, OShea and Walters are just hanging on by a thread right now.  12-6 is just not good enough.  Either they win it all or else...  

[TheSource]

44 minutes ago, WBBFanWest said:

Yes, OShea and Walters are just hanging on by a thread right now.  12-6 is just not good enough.  Either they win it all or else...  

 

I am sold on OShea now and most of the core of players. If this season turns out to be just as good as last, I'll have more faith in Walters judgement.

They just need to demonstrate that they do not go backwards again after one good year.

 

[JuranBoldenRules]

The only backwards move this off-season IMO is swapping Bond for Neufeld.  I'm hopeful about Couture and Spooner but I know Neufeld sucks.  I feel it's quite likely they'll end up playing 3 imports at some point this season.  I just hope it happens before Nichols gets ruined.

No other move is negative. 

In terms of NI's the draft is still upcoming and they've basically moved two spots to offense from defense.  They have accumulated a ton of NI talent, guys who are great special teamers who they've developed into role players on D.

In my opinion they need to add a NI DL who can potentially take some snaps, but there's also a strong possibility they dress 5 import defensive linemen with Corney and Ekakatie.  They have Jeffcoat and many of the new Americans coming in for training camp are those end types who can slide inside and play 3 technique for pass rush.

Westerman was overpaid and while he brought some intangibles also brought a lot of negative plays to the field that almost negated the big plays he could make.

They also need to add a blocking back to replace Normand but there are at least 2 and probably 3 in this draft who could fill the role (Mackie, Moisan, Green) plus Lafrance and Thera-Plamandon.

 

To me there is quite of bit of room to improve over the past couple years with import scouting.  Seems like they've been quite aggressive in bringing in CFL veteran free agents to fill some of those gaps, but it would be really nice to find a quality receiver, linebacker (and continued growth from JSK), a true rush end.

[Tracker]

4 hours ago, blueingreenland said:

 

Are we really talking about management being under the gun? Good grief guys! O'Shea has made mistakes, but every coach does. And Walters? The guy has been terrific. If anything, our scouts are to blame a bit, but not Walters. I don't want to go back to the days of "cleaning house" every 2 years.

And how many times have the Bombers gone to the cup under their tenure? Its only a 9 team league and more than one team has been rebuilt and gone to the CFL final. If the Riders manage to win the west this year, some questions need to be asked. And who hires and assesses the scouts?

Edited April 8, 2018 by tracker